Cassette Spacer Question - 10-speed Shimano on 11-speed Mavic hub
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  1. #1
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    Cassette Spacer Question - 10-speed Shimano on 11-speed Mavic hub

    Hi all,

    I recently changed my 2010 Bontrager Race X-lites for 2015 Mavic Ksyrium Elites on my Madone (2013). It's a 10-speed Shimano cassette. The Mavics came with a spacer (https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...assette-spacer), as the hub is 11-speed, which I used. Turned out, I had to adjust the rear derailleur a decent amount to get them to shift fine.
    As another point of reference, the original 2013 Bontrager lite wheels that came with the bike were could be swapped with my older (and better) X-lites, no problems.
    So, do I need another 1mm spacer? I ask, as something is up, and this (excellent) site, implies I do: Cassette How-To - Part 2 - Slowtwitch.com - i.e., Shimano 10-speed cassette needs a 1.85mm + 1mm spacer (see summary table).
    I'd really like to make these wheels compatible. Truth be told, I'd like to switch back to my x-lites, as, after about 1000km with the Mavics, I'm still not sold, but would like to make a decent comparison (and post here, as wheel choice is some source of debate).
    Any pointers, help appreciated! Thanks.

  2. #2
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
    Reputation: cxwrench's Avatar
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    This is something that's been covered dozens and dozens of times on this forum. Yes, if you have a Shimano cassette that comes w/ a 1.0mm spacer, you ALWAYS need that spacer. If you put the cassette on a Mavic wheel then you need that 1.85mm spacer as well.
    #promechaniclife

  3. #3
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    I think the reason this gets asked so much is because its a bit counterintuitive. On mavic wheels 9 speed - mavic spacer, 10 speed - mavic plus shimano spacer, 11 speed - no spacers.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodboyr View Post
    I think the reason this gets asked so much is because its a bit counterintuitive. On mavic wheels 9 speed - mavic spacer, 10 speed - mavic plus shimano spacer, 11 speed - no spacers.
    Thanks for the feedback. It is counterintuitive, but I had read up on this before installing and also before asking this question. Dozens of dozens of times may be an exaggeration, but I did see this, and did use both spacers, hence I wanted to check with a community of experienced users to confirm this was correct (as per the article I quoted - Cassette How-To - Part 2 - Slowtwitch.com), as my new wheels (with 11-spd hub) required that I adjusted the rear derailleur.

    I think my fault is in the order of placement. It looks like the 1mm spacer goes on the inside, the 1.75mm on the outside. I'll try that and see if the compatibility improves. It looks like I cancelled out the grooves in the 1.75mm spacer, if you know what I mean.

    Again, if anyone knows this stuff inside out, feel free to post and put me straight. Thanks.

    If I'm wrong a

  5. #5
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    You would first install the 10sp spacer that Mavic provided, then is your 10sp Shimano cassette came with a spacer (some do, some don't) install that before putting on the cassette.

  6. #6
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    Ok, swapped the order of the spacers, and no difference. There was nothing on the cassette that would imply there should be, either. Nor on the base of the hub.

    So my findings are that despite installing new wheels, with 11-speed hub, with my 10-speed cassette and both spacers, I had to adjust the rear derailleur a fair amount to shift correctly. Whereas, the original wheels had no issues, obviously I guess (bontrager lites). But nor did I have issues with a pair of bontrager x-lites with 10 speed cassette.

    Seems odd to me. I certainly will not rule out the fact that I did something wrong, however!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    You would first install the 10sp spacer that Mavic provided, then is your 10sp Shimano cassette came with a spacer (some do, some don't) install that before putting on the cassette.

    Thanks for confirming. That's exactly how I had it. Oh well....

  8. #8
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    You may want to check your Rd hanger alignment. A bent hanger might cause a more than usual change when changing wheels.

  9. #9
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    Thanks again. That's a good idea. Looks fine though.

    And sorry folks. I meant 1.85mm in previous posts. Getting late here and I should not be tinkering with my bike...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca View Post

    So my findings are that despite installing new wheels, with 11-speed hub, with my 10-speed cassette and both spacers, I had to adjust the rear derailleur a fair amount to shift correctly. Whereas, the original wheels had no issues, obviously I guess (bontrager lites). But nor did I have issues with a pair of bontrager x-lites with 10 speed cassette.

    Seems odd to me. I certainly will not rule out the fact that I did something wrong, however!
    There's nothing odd or unexpected about needing to adjust the rear der. when swapping wheels. I own three 10 speed rear hubs, two are identical, and I always need to tweek the cable tension when swapping from one to the other.

    Back when I have an alchemy rear hub the adjustment needed was pretty major.

    I only skimmed this so might be missing something but it sounds like you're spending time worrying about something that you really need not worry about.

  11. #11
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    I was just keying on his description that it was more than just a tweak. And for the op, you can't just eyeball Rd hanger alignment. If you don't use an alignment tool to check it, you don't know for sure.

  12. #12
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    When I use my Mavic wheels (10 speed cassette), I never have to change the index adjustment that I have from the wheels with Shimano hubs (10 speed hub and cassette).
    Don't forget that you don't need the 1mm spacer if your cassette starts with a 13. (junior cassette)
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  13. #13
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    I really appreciate all these insightful comments.

    Just to clarify, it was more than indexing that was wrong changing wheels. I had to adjust the limiting screws. As goodboyr says, I may need an alignment tool as the bike has done some air travel, so the RD could be out.

    Also, the cassette on the Mavics (2015 Ksyrium elite) is Shimano Ultegra CS-6700 10-Speed Cassette 11/28. So I'm using the 1.85mm spacer, plus the 1mm spacer.

    I'll probably just have to live with this for now, but will try the RD alignment at some point. Just dropped a decent amount on BB fit-press tools (grrrhhh!), so not ready to spend more at the moment for what is a functioning set up. Thanks all!

  14. #14
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca View Post
    I really appreciate all these insightful comments.

    Just to clarify, it was more than indexing that was wrong changing wheels. I had to adjust the limiting screws. As goodboyr says, I may need an alignment tool as the bike has done some air travel, so the RD could be out.

    Also, the cassette on the Mavics (2015 Ksyrium elite) is Shimano Ultegra CS-6700 10-Speed Cassette 11/28. So I'm using the 1.85mm spacer, plus the 1mm spacer.

    I'll probably just have to live with this for now, but will try the RD alignment at some point. Just dropped a decent amount on BB fit-press tools (grrrhhh!), so not ready to spend more at the moment for what is a functioning set up. Thanks all!
    If your indexing is off when you swap wheels, guess what else is off...the limits. If one is off the other has to be off as well.
    #promechaniclife

  15. #15
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    Indexing was fine on original wheels. Had run about 5K on those before purchasing anew. Limits were off with new wheels and correct spacers. Trying to figure out what gives.

  16. #16
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdinca View Post
    Indexing was fine on original wheels. Had run about 5K on those before purchasing anew. Limits were off with new wheels and correct spacers. Trying to figure out what gives.
    Nothing 'gives'. You're using a different wheel and both the indexing and limits need adjusting. Sometimes you get luck and things are the same between 2 wheels, sometimes they're not and you have to adjust. It's just the way things are. Of course there are standards for where things line up in relationship to the frame centerline and the dropout, but like all things that are manufactured there are tolerances. Are you familiar w/ the term 'tolerance stack'? There is no 'problem' with your bike or your wheels...they are just not exactly the same dimensionally.
    #promechaniclife

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodboyr View Post
    I was just keying on his description that it was more than just a tweak. And for the op, you can't just eyeball Rd hanger alignment. If you don't use an alignment tool to check it, you don't know for sure.
    I just wanted to write and say thanks for this advice. I finally got around to purchasing a Park alignment tool and then finally got around to using it (having watched some instruction youtube videos!). After a decent number of iterations and some elbow grease, I'd aligned my RD hanger. It was really out. Shifting was superb, and then I swapped out my new wheels for my old and perfect. I didn't need to even tweak the barrel adjuster.
    I'm super happy as I can now swap out my new Mavic Ksyriums for my 5-year old Bontrager X-lites which I prefer. Anyway, thanks for the help as I would have never got there alone. And I'd also have never got there if I'd just accepted that sometimes things just don't line up.

  18. #18
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    You're welcome! Glad it worked out.

  19. #19
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    Yes, thanks, I'm really pleased and would never have figured that out. I can now also confirm that my old x-lites (Bontrager Race X-Lite wheelsets - clincher Reviews - RoadbikeReview.com) are a _lot_ faster climbing than my new Mavics (Ksyrium Elite | Mavic - United States). There were various discussions on this site that I wanted to contribute to, but could not make the comparison....

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