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  1. #1
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    Chinese frame headset help

    Hi guys - been forwarded here's by a friend who said the help is superb here.

    i have built up a Chinese carbon frame, as has gone perfectly part form the headset build, there is a lot of play in the headset and I cannot seem to rectify it using different combinations of the headset components.

    firstly do I need the silver compression ring at the top and bottom? As far as I can see this reduces play but there is still significant play with both rings in.

    I did ride the bike with the bottom compression ring in for half an hour to test all of the components, wcould this have damaged the fork?

    is there something I'm missing to reduce the play? I have followed a guide to tighten up the stem in the correct order and still there is play.


    https://ibb.co/g72v8p
    https://ibb.co/grqhop
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    https://ibb.co/mqHHM9

  2. #2
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    Your 4th picture is correct. However it looks like you are missing the crown race.

  3. #3
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    It looks like everything is correct. With your fork you definitely need a crown race on the fork and a split compression ring at the top bearing. What kind of expander are you using in the fork? Is it slipping and allowing the headset adjustment to loosen up? Do you not have enough spacers to actually get rid of the play and properly adjust the headset?
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  4. #4
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    Post a picture of the whole thing put together. I think you need more spacers to take up the slack.
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  5. #5
    LC
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    Likely need a 0.25mm Micro Headset Spacer on top the headset.

  6. #6
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    Looks like its an integrated headset. Typically they are set up with crown race pressed on to the fork and interface directly with the lower bearing. I've not seen the use of compression ring on the bottom bearing, only on top. If you do not have a crown race, be sure to confirm the diameter of the fork steerer at the base, the lower bearing inner race diameter and its contact angle to get the correct crown race.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    Looks like its an integrated headset. Typically they are set up with crown race pressed on to the fork and interface directly with the lower bearing. I've not seen the use of compression ring on the bottom bearing, only on top. If you do not have a crown race, be sure to confirm the diameter of the fork steerer at the base, the lower bearing inner race diameter and its contact angle to get the correct crown race.
    "this"

  8. #8
    .je
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    I found the same when I put my frame together with the supplied Neco headset and I think I put something upside down or in the wrong place. I don't have the bike handy to look at but this assembly drawing might help:
    https://www.necoparts.com/Templates/...l-1.pdf?lng=en

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    Quote Originally Posted by .je View Post
    I found the same when I put my frame together with the supplied Neco headset and I think I put something upside down or in the wrong place. I don't have the bike handy to look at but this assembly drawing might help:
    https://www.necoparts.com/Templates/...l-1.pdf?lng=en
    Yep, this appears to be a typical integrated headset setup. Like all headsets, a properly installed crown race is critical as it provides the foundation for rest of the stack.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LC View Post
    Likely need a 0.25mm Micro Headset Spacer on top the headset.
    A what?!? .25mm? You must mean 2.5cm.

    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    Looks like its an integrated headset. Typically they are set up with crown race pressed on to the fork and interface directly with the lower bearing. I've not seen the use of compression ring on the bottom bearing, only on top. If you do not have a crown race, be sure to confirm the diameter of the fork steerer at the base, the lower bearing inner race diameter and its contact angle to get the correct crown race.
    It is is an integrated headset, that's easy to see. It does have a crown race on the fork, we just don't know for sure if it's actually the correct one w/ an interface that matches the lower bearing. There are crown races that are a press fit and not split, they need a press to install, and there are crown races that press on by hand and are split. What the OP has on the fork is NOT a compression ring, it's a crown race.
    Without being able to see the bike in person I would say the problem is either there aren't enough spacers to put the top of the stem over the top of the steerer tube, OR the expander is slipping when the OP tries to adjust the headset. Obviously can't say for sure.
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  11. #11
    .je
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    I think another problem I had was that I didnt know how to use the expansion plug to 'pull up' the fork tube. I had to take the black top plate off to expose the hex bolt that expands the expander. Once I did that the expander could work the gap didn't appear. Is that the case? If it is, don't worry I'm not a complete idiot but I can always try harder.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by .je View Post
    I think another problem I had was that I didnt know how to use the expansion plug to 'pull up' the fork tube. I had to take the black top plate off to expose the hex bolt that expands the expander. Once I did that the expander could work the gap didn't appear. Is that the case? If it is, don't worry I'm not a complete idiot but I can always try harder.
    Yes, that is how they work. You get it tight enough so it doesn't move when you are adjusting the headset.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    A what?!? .25mm? You must mean 2.5cm.



    It is is an integrated headset, that's easy to see. It does have a crown race on the fork, we just don't know for sure if it's actually the correct one w/ an interface that matches the lower bearing. There are crown races that are a press fit and not split, they need a press to install, and there are crown races that press on by hand and are split. What the OP has on the fork is NOT a compression ring, it's a crown race.
    Without being able to see the bike in person I would say the problem is either there aren't enough spacers to put the top of the stem over the top of the steerer tube, OR the expander is slipping when the OP tries to adjust the headset. Obviously can't say for sure.
    That is good to know, I didn't realize there is a split ring crown race. I just thought the OP posted 2 pics, one with the compression ring above and one below.

  14. #14
    .je
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    I'll post this video of Neco Headset Fitting. Have a look to see if you might have missed something.

    Last edited by .je; 10-14-2018 at 03:40 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynomike8 View Post
    That is good to know, I didn't realize there is a split ring crown race. I just thought the OP posted 2 pics, one with the compression ring above and one below.
    It's pretty obvious that they're different parts. Well, it should be pretty obvious. It's a tapered steerer, the upper one wouldn't fit on the lower part of the steerer. The upper one is much thicker as well so the top cover doesn't rub on the frame.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by .je View Post
    I'll post this video of Neco Headset Fitting. Have a look to see if you might have missed something.

    That is a terrible video, it just barely gets the idea across correctly. The guy is obviously not a mechanic.
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  17. #17
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    Ok I took some more photos to help clarify things.

    This is the assembled stack:

    https://ibb.co/cYgb0f

    These are all the parts supplied layed out (minus the bottom bearing which is too stiff to get out from the Head tube):

    https://ibb.co/jXeULf

    This is the underneath of the Head tube:

    https://ibb.co/gamWY0

    Top of headtueb with beating a split ring in place:

    https://ibb.co/kzR9Lf

    This is the stack with the stem bolt removed:

    https://ibb.co/hOtdD0

    This is fully assembled with the bottom split ring in place - should you be able to see it?

    https://ibb.co/fE19Lf

    The problem I have is with both rings on there Is still play when rocking backwards with the brakes on?

    Thanks for all replies

  18. #18
    tlg
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    [QUOTE=chrisbjornward;5269881]Ok I took some more photos to help clarify things.

    These are all the parts supplied layed out (minus the bottom bearing which is too stiff to get out from the Head tube):

    https://ibb.co/jXeULf
    That's the correct order and parts.

    Top of headtueb with beating a split ring in place:

    https://ibb.co/kzR9Lf
    Why are you beating it into place?

    This is fully assembled with the bottom split ring in place - should you be able to see it?

    https://ibb.co/fE19Lf
    Yes.

    The problem I have is with both rings on there Is still play when rocking backwards with the brakes on?
    Can you tell where the rocking is coming from?
    You mentioned the bottom bearing is too tight to remove. What about the top bearing? Does it fit snug in the frame?
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  19. #19
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    >>>"...with the bottom split ring in place - should you be able to see it?"
    yes, that looks fine to me.

    "The problem I have is with both rings on there Is still play when rocking backwards with the brakes on"
    Align the stem but do not fully tighten bolts. Slowly tighten the top cap bolt until you feel some resistance turning the fork. Back off bolt ~1/2 turn and tighten the stem bolts. Test for play and repeat if necessary.

    Also, since you do not have a press-in crown race (the bottom split ring), make sure top of the fork crown where the ring goes, is completely flat. If the fork is designed for press-in race, it may not be so and can cause play.
    Last edited by nova_rider; 10-15-2018 at 10:44 AM.

  20. #20
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LC View Post
    Likely need a 0.25mm Micro Headset Spacer on top the headset.
    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    Looks like its an integrated headset. Typically they are set up with crown race pressed on to the fork and interface directly with the lower bearing. I've not seen the use of compression ring on the bottom bearing, only on top. If you do not have a crown race, be sure to confirm the diameter of the fork steerer at the base, the lower bearing inner race diameter and its contact angle to get the correct crown race.
    Quote Originally Posted by chrisbjornward View Post
    Ok I took some more photos to help clarify things.

    This is the assembled stack:

    https://ibb.co/cYgb0f

    These are all the parts supplied layed out (minus the bottom bearing which is too stiff to get out from the Head tube):

    https://ibb.co/jXeULf

    This is the underneath of the Head tube:

    https://ibb.co/gamWY0

    Top of headtueb with beating a split ring in place:

    https://ibb.co/kzR9Lf

    This is the stack with the stem bolt removed:

    https://ibb.co/hOtdD0

    This is fully assembled with the bottom split ring in place - should you be able to see it?

    https://ibb.co/fE19Lf

    The problem I have is with both rings on there Is still play when rocking backwards with the brakes on?

    Thanks for all replies
    You should have zero play. Is the expander that goes inside your steerer tube slipping? Do you not have enough spacers so that you have a gap of 2-3mm between the top of the steerer and the top of the stem?

    If you have all those spacers on top of the stem you will need to cut the steerer tube soon, you shouldn't have that much steerer above the stem.
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  21. #21
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    Take those split rings off the fork. Take the frame and put the split rings in the bearings, I'll bet you find they have play, you have got the wrong size either the rings or races.
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  22. #22
    .je
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    That was the headset that I got, with all those parts. Be sure you're using the expander correctly, but also be sure that the fork tube isn't just flush with the spacers, but 3mm lower, maybe more, since things compress and stackup of slack gets taken up when tightening. I also learned that a cut that looks square might still have a couple of mm up on one side from being not quite square.

    Also that's a little more gap than I have but it's nearly the same and it settled.
    Last edited by .je; 10-15-2018 at 04:11 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LC View Post
    Likely need a 0.25mm Micro Headset Spacer on top the headset.
    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    Looks like its an integrated headset. Typically they are set up with crown race pressed on to the fork and interface directly with the lower bearing. I've not seen the use of compression ring on the bottom bearing, only on top. If you do not have a crown race, be sure to confirm the diameter of the fork steerer at the base, the lower bearing inner race diameter and its contact angle to get the correct crown race.
    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    Take those split rings off the fork. Take the frame and put the split rings in the bearings, I'll bet you find they have play, you have got the wrong size either the rings or races.
    They rely on the steerer tube to be 'expanded' to the correct size. If you take them off they're definitely seem small. Good idea, but it don't work like that.
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  24. #24
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    Take it to a bike shop!
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Yes, that is how they work. You get it tight enough so it doesn't move when you are adjusting the headset.
    1000 times this... that's what the point of an expander is.

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