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  1. #1
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    crown race spins around on fork crown

    one of my new project bikes is missing some material from its 1" steel fork crown. the crown race spins around on the crown. i assume it was ridden like that by the previous owner, but i would like to secure the race to the fork so it doesn't continue to eat up fork material.

    what adhesive would you use? there are so many products out there now. everything from loctite to new glues to jb-weld.

    the replacement crown race (and headset -- '80s super record) is in great condition, and it will remain in place for the duration (i hope). however, it would be nice if it could be removed in the future through a normal crown race puller.

    thanks for your advice! i'm sure there are many solutions to this. i just need to pick one and monitor the results.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  2. #2
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    I don't think adhesive would work well here. You may want to consider some thin metal shims.

  3. #3
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    You don't need an adhesive, you need a knurler. If that doesn't work maybe a framebuilder could lay some brass down then shape it w/ a crown race cutter.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    You need a knurler.
    ok, i'll ask around. i'm waiting on a crown race removal tool i ordered to remove the race i'll use from the donor fork.

    i read that some with this problem use a center punch to increase the diameter of the fork crown. does this make sense?

    i also read that loctite 660 is used specifically for these types of issues. my fork probably needs more than just this solution. maybe i'll use a little loctite 660 in addition to the knurling tool or punch.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  5. #5
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    How much room do you have? Another non-glue solution would be to put some steel wire screening or emery cloth in there to provide friction.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    How much room do you have?
    let's see if this works ... my first ever attempt at uploading a video to the internet...

    https://i.imgur.com/tJjNjoT.mp4

    i can move the tange falcon race that came with the bike from side to side. it easily spins. i can see where the fork crown is missing material as well.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  7. #7
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    There used to be a few crown race standards that were close, but not perfect. I would try and see if it is the right diameter. If not, beer can shims are your friend.
    Last edited by rideit; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:44 PM.

  8. #8
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    ok, i'll ask around. i'm waiting on a crown race removal tool i ordered to remove the race i'll use from the donor fork.

    i read that some with this problem use a center punch to increase the diameter of the fork crown. does this make sense?

    i also read that loctite 660 is used specifically for these types of issues. my fork probably needs more than just this solution. maybe i'll use a little loctite 660 in addition to the knurling tool or punch.
    Yep, a center punch will do the exact same thing as the knurler just on a slightly bigger scale...very good chance it will work. Just work your way around where the race sits and dimple every few mm's.
    I work for some bike racers
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  9. #9
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    Use a non-destructive method (Loctite) before a destructive method (center punching).

    That way if the former doesn't work, you still have an option.

    Loctite 680 is for slip fit parts (it's a "retaining" compound).

  10. #10
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    After watching the video, I don't think you have a tight enough fit for loctite to help. I'm not even sure knurling or peening will help without some extreme measures.

    I don't know much about these kinds of forks, but it looks to me like you have mis-matched parts. Do you have another fork or race you could swap out and try?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    looks to me like you have mis-matched parts.
    i should have included this in the op:

    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    ... i can see where the fork crown is missing material as well.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  12. #12
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    Are you sure you don't have a 27.0mm crown race with a 26.4mm machined fork crown?

    Those are the Italian vs. JIS crown race specs.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter P. View Post
    Are you sure you don't have a 27.0mm crown race with a 26.4mm machined fork crown?

    Those are the Italian vs. JIS crown race specs.
    This sure could be the answer. It sure is worth measuring before any action is taken.
    Too old to ride plastic

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter P. View Post
    Are you sure you don't have a 27.0mm crown race with a 26.4mm machined fork crown?

    Those are the Italian vs. JIS crown race specs.
    That's what I was referring to, I forgot the exact numbers.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter P. View Post
    Are you sure you don't have a 27.0mm crown race with a 26.4mm machined fork crown?

    Those are the Italian vs. JIS crown race specs.
    This is most likely the issue

  16. #16
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    The slop you show does look like the difference between the more common 27.0 and 26.4 standards. There were a few other less common European variants in between those two standards too.

    Are you test fitting with the Campy crown race? The reason I ask is if my memory serves me correct, Campy crown races were 26.4 and lower quality headsets were generally 27.0. If you are test fitting with a mystery crown race, then you are likely fitting a 27.0 to a 26.4 fork crown. If so, your problem should materially be solved as soon as you fit the Campy crown race.

    If you have that much looseness with a Campy crown race, then you don't have much choice but to knurl or center punch to enlarge the fork crown. I'm not a big fan of the beer can method, as its hard to maintain concentricity. If you do have to knurl or center punch to get a tight fit, I would also suggest using some JB Weld or other suitable filler for the valleys. The reason for the JB Weld is that I have seen knurling wear down fairly quickly if the bike is ridden on rough roads. You can re-knurl, but you're quickly going down a slippery slope.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 202cycle View Post
    This is most likely the issue
    i could write a third time that i can see (and feel) where the fork is missing material, but i'm not sure it would make a difference.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RHankey View Post
    If you have that much looseness with a Campy crown race, then you don't have much choice but to knurl or center punch... If you do have to knurl ... I would also suggest using some JB Weld or other suitable filler for the valleys. The reason for the JB Weld is that I have seen knurling wear down fairly quickly if the bike is ridden on rough roads. You can re-knurl, but you're quickly going down a slippery slope.
    i like this idea. i'm just not sure which product to use: loctite 660, some jb weld product, or araldite. a more solid, putty-like product may work better than a more liquid one.

    it'll be next week when i receive the crown race puller i ordered for the donor campy crown race.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    i could write a third time that i can see (and feel) where the fork is missing material, but i'm not sure it would make a difference.
    You could also provide a picture of the fork crown. It is possible that at some point the crown was cut to accept the 26.4 race. I guess some folks here are trying to help you find the correct solution rather than banging on your fork with improper tools or using what will ultimately be ineffective shimming methods. I apologize for making you repeat yourself.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    i like this idea. i'm just not sure which product to use: loctite 660, some jb weld product, or araldite. a more solid, putty-like product may work better than a more liquid one.

    it'll be next week when i receive the crown race puller i ordered for the donor campy crown race.
    I'm sure there are as at least as many differing opinions as those who respond. IMHO, JB Weld is probably the best low spot gap filler for this application. Regardless of product, it needs to set hard and become one with the fork crown so it is providing as much support to the crown race as possible. Follow the prep directions to the letter.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 202cycle View Post
    You could also provide a picture of the fork crown. It is possible that at some point the crown was cut to accept the 26.4 race. I guess some folks here are trying to help you find the correct solution rather than banging on your fork with improper tools or using what will ultimately be ineffective shimming methods. I apologize for making you repeat yourself.
    it's a 1987 falcon fork with what used to be a 26.4mm crown. it's not a raleigh (27.0) fork. some of the steel material is missing through some unfortunate issue unbeknownst to me. the missing material spans about an 1/8th of the fork diameter.

    the original tange headset crown race is 26.4mm. the campy crown race i will use is also 26.4.

    next week i will knurl or punch the fork crown and follow up with jb weld (i think) as thankfully mentioned here.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    it's a 1987 falcon fork with what used to be a 26.4mm crown. it's not a raleigh (27.0) fork. some of the steel material is missing through some unfortunate issue unbeknownst to me. the missing material spans about an 1/8th of the fork diameter.

    the original tange headset crown race is 26.4mm. the campy crown race i will use is also 26.4.

    next week i will knurl or punch the fork crown and follow up with jb weld (i think) as thankfully mentioned here.
    That info would have been good to know somewhere around the top of this page. Weird someone would do that to a fork, but I've seen way to many weird things done to bikes in the last 30 years. Nothing surprises me anymore. Good luck with the project!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RHankey View Post
    ... IMHO, JB Weld is probably the best low spot gap filler for this application. Regardless of product, it needs to set hard and become one with the fork crown so it is providing as much support to the crown race as possible. Follow the prep directions to the letter.
    thanks.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 202cycle View Post
    That info would have been good to know somewhere around the top of this page.
    i should have bolded the first sentence of the op.

    Weird someone would do that to a fork...
    it wasn't purposely done. it failed. but maybe it failed through poor adjustment or neglect.

    Good luck...
    thanks.
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    it's a 1987 falcon fork with what used to be a 26.4mm crown. it's not a raleigh (27.0) fork. some of the steel material is missing through some unfortunate issue unbeknownst to me. the missing material spans about an 1/8th of the fork diameter.

    the original tange headset crown race is 26.4mm. the campy crown race i will use is also 26.4.

    next week i will knurl or punch the fork crown and follow up with jb weld (i think) as thankfully mentioned here.
    Yikes. Good luck trying to knurl that out to the diameter you need,

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