Dura Ace 9100 shifters chewing up cables same as 9000 - Gutted after $$ upgrade - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Counter point, when I had cable shifting and internal routing I was getting about 7000 miles out of a rear cable on Ultegra 6800 and the thing i did for good life was lube the cable and track at the 90 degree turn entering the shifter. Inside the frame there are no more contact points for the cable than an external design, and if anything there should be less friction because less of the cable is exposed to the elements to drag stuff into the housing and create friction.
    I'm not saying internal routing causes more friction as a rule. No reason it would if done right. But not everyone does it right.

    Here's an example of one I think would suck: https://bikerumor.com/2018/12/09/fsa...-wheel-debuts/

    I think it was a certain Look bike that I'm also remembering having some insane twists and turns though the bars, stem and headtube.
    Last edited by Jay Strongbow; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:23 AM.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I think you are guessing. As am I by thinking bad internal cable routing that requires more force to pull could play a role.

    If I remember correctly you have a frame with internal routing and have mentioned chewing up cables in less miles than I've ever heard of it happening to anyone else. Certainly thousands less than myself with external routing and with my shifting habits I doubt you shifting more is a factor. Anecdote.......but........
    You do bring up a valid point about a cable routing that requires more force - more bends going under handlebar tape. Though as CX said, if this were really an issue, shifting quality would be affected.....maybe, unless derailleur spring strength were more on these genrations of group sets.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    . Though as CX said, if this were really an issue, shifting quality would be affected..
    And as I said it is effected (in cases of crappy routing, or so I've been told by people who know what they are doing yet find their internal frame very finicky as compared to other frames they have experience with)

    At one point, maybe still, Shimano was advising against internal frames. They are known to be over cautions but I doubt that just pulled that out of their arse for no reason. I couldn't find a link to them saying that but I am 99.99% sure I've read it straight from the horses mouth (Shimano).

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Counter point, when I had cable shifting and internal routing I was getting about 7000 miles out of a rear cable on Ultegra 6800 and the thing i did for good life was lube the cable and track at the 90 degree turn entering the shifter. Inside the frame there are no more contact points for the cable than an external design, and if anything there should be less friction because less of the cable is exposed to the elements to drag stuff into the housing and create friction.
    ^This^ although you might get some interesting bends/friction going into/out of the frame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    And as I said it is effected (in cases of crappy routing, or so I've been told by people who know what they are doing yet find their internal frame very finicky as compared to other frames they have experience with)

    At one point, maybe still, Shimano was advising against internal frames. They are known to be over cautions but I doubt that just pulled that out of their arse for no reason. I couldn't find a link to them saying that but I am 99.99% sure I've read it straight from the horses mouth (Shimano).
    What I meant when I said it would suck was that the shifting would be so bad that the bike would not be rideable. Realistically any added friction from weird/bad/complicated routing would be enough to prevent a bike from shifting properly.
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  5. #30
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    Cable Housing?

    I have 9000 and I've never had a problem with any of this or with the older 7800.

    None of the posters mention whether they use the special DuraAce housing. The inner coating is slick and has some special fittings for the ends to reduce friction. The shifting is great.

    I don't expect to get 7,000 miles from the cables like one of the posters. Sometimes I replace the cables without the housings but usually I do both.

    My Madone six series has internal routing. It's hard to work on but has low friction.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Counter point, when I had cable shifting and internal routing I was getting about 7000 miles out of a rear cable on Ultegra 6800 and the thing i did for good life was lube the cable and track at the 90 degree turn entering the shifter. Inside the frame there are no more contact points for the cable than an external design, and if anything there should be less friction because less of the cable is exposed to the elements to drag stuff into the housing and create friction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    And as I said it is effected (in cases of crappy routing, or so I've been told by people who know what they are doing yet find their internal frame very finicky as compared to other frames they have experience with)

    At one point, maybe still, Shimano was advising against internal frames. They are known to be over cautions but I doubt that just pulled that out of their arse for no reason. I couldn't find a link to them saying that but I am 99.99% sure I've read it straight from the horses mouth (Shimano).
    Quote Originally Posted by Tlaloc View Post
    I have 9000 and I've never had a problem with any of this or with the older 7800.

    None of the posters mention whether they use the special DuraAce housing. The inner coating is slick and has some special fittings for the ends to reduce friction. The shifting is great.

    I don't expect to get 7,000 miles from the cables like one of the posters. Sometimes I replace the cables without the housings but usually I do both.

    My Madone six series has internal routing. It's hard to work on but has low friction.
    Nope.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlaloc View Post
    None of the posters mention whether they use the special DuraAce housing. The inner coating is slick and has some special fittings for the ends to reduce friction. The shifting is great.
    Mine was the special DA cable and housing that failed and yes, the shifting was great, right up to the point when it wasn’t.

    Just a comment on cable friction, down here in the Southern Hemisphere we generally run front brake on the right, which means it’s a bit of a funky bend from under the bar tape back over to the cable entry of the front brake caliper (definitely designed for left front braking) Depending on the angle you hold that cable at, you can feel the lever pull being either silky smooth, or have some friction/roughness to it. I can only imagine how that translates to a Rear Deraileur run that has to negotiate all sorts of twists and turns within the frame and at entry/ exit points.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TmB123 View Post
    Mine was the special DA cable and housing that failed and yes, the shifting was great, right up to the point when it wasn’t.

    Just a comment on cable friction, down here in the Southern Hemisphere we generally run front brake on the right, which means it’s a bit of a funky bend from under the bar tape back over to the cable entry of the front brake caliper (definitely designed for left front braking) Depending on the angle you hold that cable at, you can feel the lever pull being either silky smooth, or have some friction/roughness to it. I can only imagine how that translates to a Rear Deraileur run that has to negotiate all sorts of twists and turns within the frame and at entry/ exit points.
    Generally it's not an issue as the housing stops set up the housing/cable angle pretty well. There are generally no twists and/or turns within the frame...maybe around the bottom bracket but that's it.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    And as I said it is effected (in cases of crappy routing, or so I've been told by people who know what they are doing yet find their internal frame very finicky as compared to other frames they have experience with)

    At one point, maybe still, Shimano was advising against internal frames. They are known to be over cautions but I doubt that just pulled that out of their arse for no reason. I couldn't find a link to them saying that but I am 99.99% sure I've read it straight from the horses mouth (Shimano).
    Hmmm, considering that most new road frames have internal routing, Shimano advising against using their equipment with internally routed frames sounds pretty comical. I think they would be better off redesigning their shifters.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



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