Dura ace or ultegra electronic vs dura ace mechanical ???
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  1. #1
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    Dura ace or ultegra electronic vs dura ace mechanical ???

    Anyone with practical experience on this subject? Currently have dura ace 11 speed mechanical and I was wondering if it is a worthwhile upgrade to go electronic. Thanks

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluspwr View Post
    Anyone with practical experience on this subject? Currently have dura ace 11 speed mechanical and I was wondering if it is a worthwhile upgrade to go electronic. Thanks
    I think that is a lot of personal preference. I personally am not a fan of the electronic group. It just didn't do it for me. That being said the DA 9000 mechanical is very nice. I don't think you would have much to gain there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tihsepa View Post
    I think that is a lot of personal preference. I personally am not a fan of the electronic group. It just didn't do it for me. That being said the DA 9000 mechanical is very nice. I don't think you would have much to gain there.
    Not a fan because of ????

  4. #4
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    If I already had a mechanical DA drivetrain, I wouldn't bother switching. If I were to get a new bike, I would probably pick Ultegra Di2 over DA mechanical.
    My other chainring is a 39...
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  5. #5
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    While Di2 is great, if I currently had a mechanical 9000 bike I wouldn't think about 'upgrading' to electronic. The front Di2 derailleur is pretty damn good and very reliable. The rear shifting is not necessarily better, it's just different. Very reliable, and the continuous shift feature on the new stuff is cool.
    Unless you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, I'd use the 9000.
    #promechaniclife

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluspwr View Post
    Not a fan because of ????
    I don't really know why. I just couldn't get used to the way it shifts without the brake lever. I rode a loner bike for about a month with it. I was happy to get back to my old mechanical. I had the same issue with SRAM and sold off that groupset.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for all the feedback. I was thinking the auto-trim on the front derailleur would be nice. I also like the idea of precision rear sprocket shifting where it nails the shift perfect every time. Just didn't know if electronic is as good as advertised.

  8. #8
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    What You'reTryin' To Get In Wll Be In The Bargain Bin, Wait And You Win

    OCD is hell at times for me, but there is an upside to it. Data.
    I got to touch Di2 at NAHBS and got the run down about it's pluses and minuses.
    I'm looking into haveing a bike made and have to choose a groupset, so I have spent time looking at different options.
    My own personal parameters are ease of function (FD specific), low maintenance an appearance.
    My parameters are function, low maintenance and appearance.
    Function:
    Pro 9,000: at NAHBS, Shimano rep and more than a few Dura Ace 9,000 owners said that it rivals Di2 in front shifts and it has that tactile feel to it.
    Con 9,000: it will need normal adjustements, no bigge there.
    Pro Di2: Shimano rep showed me that Di2 is programable and that you, for more money, ca add more buttons to the top of your bar so you can shift from there too.
    Con Di2: you lose that tactile feel of shifts
    Pro Ui2: feels and shifts like Di2
    Con Ui2: it uses bigger, heavier, louder servo motors, doesn't hurt function, just a difference, a con if that bothers you, it does me
    Low Maintenance
    Pro 9,000: no better, no worse in this regard than what it replaced
    Con 9,000: like any groupset, adjustements will have to be made time to time, no biggie, but it's there
    Pro Di2: set and forget
    Con Di2: batteries! not really much of a con there for me
    Pro Ui2: it too is set and forget
    Con Ui2: batteries! cell phone, Garmin, rear light, I'm kinda pre-programmed to charge batteries, like Di2, a wash for me.
    Appearance
    Pro 9,000: looks great, love it
    Con 9,000: none, just look at it! awesome
    Pro Di2: see above, it's awesome
    Con Di2: I can't hate, I've tried
    Pro Ui2: like the design of it
    Con Ui2: the FD and RD are bulkier, I could live with that, but that crank in black won't jive with my planned bike, just don't like it
    Di2 wins in my personal set of wants, but I wouldn't buy it now.
    Way too pricey. The biggest pull for me for Di2 is that it is set and forget. Mech shifting is pretty darn good now though and small adjustements to it would be infrequent.
    I would get what you already have, Dura Ace 9,000.
    They're not done tweaking Di2, wait awhile if you want "better than", the next big "gotta have" (even longer battery life, wireless, etc..) is a heartbeat away. And what you want now will be old news and cheaper.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by tihsepa View Post
    I think that is a lot of personal preference. I personally am not a fan of the electronic group. It just didn't do it for me. That being said the DA 9000 mechanical is very nice. I don't think you would have much to gain there.
    Rode with someone recently who loves electronic, but ironically tells a story about not being fully charged on a long ride, and having to get home in a very uncomfortable gear. It's one thing for a computer to lose charge, but gears?...you must be kidding. No way I'd ever want to deal with this.

    Also believe electronic shifting systems will continue to evolve rapidly, unlike mechanical. Only a matter of time before systems are offered that shift for you based on computer settings/preferences such as cadence, etc

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    Also believe electronic shifting systems will continue to evolve rapidly, unlike mechanical. Only a matter of time before systems are offered that shift for you based on computer settings/preferences such as cadence, etc
    ^^This. At some point, it's likely that electronic shifting will be wireless, and then the current Di2 will be outdated.

    DA9000 works exceptionally well...and let's face it...you still have to pedal.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvad View Post
    ^^This. At some point, it's likely that electronic shifting will be wireless, and then the current Di2 will be outdated.

    DA9000 works exceptionally well...and let's face it...you still have to pedal.
    Agree, Current mechanical works very well. I guess you have to ask yourself if shifting on the mechanical group set bothers you. For me, I'm used to it, and it for me. Some people love it, but to me it looks like a solution looking for a problem. I have similar feelings about threaded bottom brackets. I don't quite get why people feel the need for the newer systems, but that's a whole other thread.

  12. #12
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    Rode with someone recently who loves electronic, but ironically tells a story about not being fully charged on a long ride, and having to get home in a very uncomfortable gear. It's one thing for a computer to lose charge, but gears?...you must be kidding. No way I'd ever want to deal with this.

    Also believe electronic shifting systems will continue to evolve rapidly, unlike mechanical. Only a matter of time before systems are offered that shift for you based on computer settings/preferences such as cadence, etc
    You'd have to be particularly oblivious to run your battery dead on a Di2 bike. It does require that you learn to check it periodically, but every new drive train will likely have some 'learning' period. Checking the battery on a Di2 bike should be like checking the air in your tires and putting bottles in your cages. This is definitely not a fault w/ Shimano, but w/ your friend being forgetful.
    #promechaniclife

  13. #13
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    So does the auto-trim for the front derailleur work as advertised on the shimano di2 electronic groups? (i.e. No chain grind on front no matter what back gear or front ring combination you choose)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluspwr View Post
    So does the auto-trim for the front derailleur work as advertised on the shimano di2 electronic groups? (i.e. No chain grind on front no matter what back gear or front ring combination you choose)
    Not directly answering the question...but useful info, IMO...I have no "chain grind" on the front derailleur of my DuraAce9000 no matter what chain combination I choose.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trek_5200 View Post
    Rode with someone recently who loves electronic, but ironically tells a story about not being fully charged on a long ride, and having to get home in a very uncomfortable gear. It's one thing for a computer to lose charge, but gears?...you must be kidding. No way I'd ever want to deal with this.
    There are so many battery features that I find this surprising.

    1. The internal battery lasts 1500 miles on a charge (I have gone up closer to 2k miles in my testing on a SM-BTR2). Surely you can remember to charge it at least one time somewhere in that 1500-2000 miles.

    2. You can check the charge at any time with the press of a button and it is stupid simple to charge. The battery also has no charge memory, so you can leave it charging overnight. First cue you need to charge is when you see the red light.

    3. The FD starts to get sluggish when you are getting low. Second cue you need to charge.

    4. The FD stops working when you are very low. Third cue you need to charge.

    5. After the FD stops working, you have roughly 150 RD Shifts before the RD stops working in the last gear you were in. You really should never even get to this point.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluspwr View Post
    So does the auto-trim for the front derailleur work as advertised on the shimano di2 electronic groups? (i.e. No chain grind on front no matter what back gear or front ring combination you choose)
    Yep, I have it on my cross rig no chain rub. Also its super easy to swap out front rings.

  17. #17
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madone SIX View Post
    There are so many battery features that I find this surprising.

    1. The internal battery lasts 1500 miles on a charge (I have gone up closer to 2k miles in my testing on a SM-BTR2). Surely you can remember to charge it at least one time somewhere in that 1500-2000 miles.

    2. You can check the charge at any time with the press of a button and it is stupid simple to charge. The battery also has no charge memory, so you can leave it charging overnight. First cue you need to charge is when you see the red light.

    3. The FD starts to get sluggish when you are getting low. Second cue you need to charge.

    4. The FD stops working when you are very low. Third cue you need to charge.

    5. After the FD stops working, you have roughly 150 RD Shifts before the RD stops working in the last gear you were in. You really should never even get to this point.
    ^ This ^
    #promechaniclife

  18. #18
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    Add me to the pro Di2 camp. Now that I have a bike running Ui2, I don't think I'll ever go back to a mechanical groupset.

    Battery running flat is such a non-issue. Just follow the guidelines posted above by Madone SIX.

    On top of that, you get nice, crisp shifts every time, even under load. As for future-proofing, the Di2 and Ui2 components are all firmware upgradable. Got an Ultegra 6770 10-sp groupset and want to go to 11-sp? All you have to replace is the rear derailleur and cogset. Perform a firmware upgrade to get all the components talking to each other and you're off and running with 11-sp.

    I don't doubt that DA9000 is a great groupset but for my money, Ultegra Di2 was worth every penny to me.

  19. #19
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    Re: Dura ace or ultegra electronic vs dura ace mechanical ???

    Got an Ultegra 6770 10-sp groupset and want to go to 11-sp? All you have to replace is the rear derailleur and cogset. Perform a firmware upgrade to get all the components talking to each other and you're off and running with 11-sp.
    .
    Really? So no need for new brifters?
    For some reason I thought one needed to.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by L_Johnny View Post
    Really? So no need for new brifters?
    For some reason I thought one needed to.
    Nope. No need for new brifters. After all, they're just two buttons; "Up" and "Down". See this article: How to Convert Shimano 6770 Ultegra Di2 to 11 Speed | Fit Werx

    To be fair though, I *did* miss one other component that you would have to replace and that is the chain.

  21. #21
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    Only time when new Di2 shifters are needed is if using the 1st gen Dura Ace Di2. The Ultegra Di2 (10 sp) uses a 2 wire system, just like the 11 speed Ultegra and D/A Di2. The 1st gen D/A Di2 uses a 3 wire system.
    You can't fix stupid.

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  22. #22
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    Re: Dura ace or ultegra electronic vs dura ace mechanical ???

    Have the 11sp RD, new cassette and chain on the way.
    As an aside, Is there such thing as 11-30 or 12-30 11speed ultegra cassette? I didn't want to go up the way to 32. So ended up with 11-28.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by L_Johnny View Post
    Have the 11sp RD, new cassette and chain on the way.
    As an aside, Is there such thing as 11-30 or 12-30 11speed ultegra cassette? I didn't want to go up the way to 32. So ended up with 11-28.
    There is not. They have the following:

    11-23
    11-25
    11-28
    11-32
    12-25

    So I guess the 11-28 is the right choice for you.
    use a torque wrench

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluspwr View Post
    So does the auto-trim for the front derailleur work as advertised on the shimano di2 electronic groups? (i.e. No chain grind on front no matter what back gear or front ring combination you choose)
    Yes, it works perfect on my bike, the only way to tell what gear you are in (other then keeping track of shifts) is by looking down.

  25. #25
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    Dura ace or ultegra electronic vs dura ace mechanical ???

    I went Di2, and won't go back to mechanical. I've had some bad cable shifting show up during long rides and the Di2 is set and forget. Never have to worry about degrading shift quality.

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