Frozen Bottle Cage Bolts - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Try practicing with your pop riveter on some scrap tubing. Even some thin walled copper plumbing pipe would be suitable for practice. That should give you and idea whether things will work on your frame.

  2. #27
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    Good idea, Peter. I'm kind of doubting my riveter can handle such a large rivnut. I may have to obtain the right rivnut to determine my tool needs. Based on the hole dimensions, do you think a 6m rivnut could cover it up?

  3. #28
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    I can't remember what size the standard and oversize ones are that we got from Trek...I can look into if you think it would help. I used a standard Stanley rivet setter...about a foot long. Like this:
    https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-MR100...s%2C225&sr=8-1
    #promechaniclife

  4. #29
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    Thanks, CX. Yes, my rivet gun is similar. It might be a Craftsman. Mine has only 2 rivet heads so there's a chance it doesn't have the right diameter one for the rivnut, but I wouldn't know until I had the rivnut.

    Yes, please let me know what you know about what's available from Trek and I will make my way down to my local Trek dealer and see if they have any.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    ...do you think a 6m rivnut could cover it up?
    Check this link to the McMaster-Carr web page. It has all the dimensions you seek. Looks like a 6mm smooth rivnut will cover the hole.

    Scroll down on the McMaster page to "Rivnuts for Plastics and Composites". I think the M6 is the ticket but in fact, the M5 will cover your hole, too.

    And I don't think you need to buy a tool. Just use the bolt and nut method I described above, of course practicing on that scrap tubing first.
    Last edited by Peter P.; 08-15-2020 at 05:43 PM.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter P. View Post
    Check this link to the McMaster-Carr web page. It has all the dimensions you seek. Looks like a 6mm smooth rivnut will cover the hole.

    Scroll down on the McMaster page to "Rivnuts for Plastics and Composites". I think the M6 is the ticket but in fact, the M5 will cover your hole, too.

    And I don't think you need to buy a tool. Just use the bolt and nut method I described above, of course practicing on that scrap tubing first.
    That definitely works!
    #promechaniclife

  7. #32
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    Those look promising. Thanks for the info. Not sure what "Install them in a drilled hole with a wrench- or power-driven rivet nut tool." means, though.

  8. #33
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    Wrench is the technique described earlier. Put an allen wrench in a screw that fits the rivnut. Put the screw in the rivnut w/ a regular nut screwed onto it. Hold the allen (and screw) still, thread the nut down onto the material you're putting the rivnut into. It will pull the inside up and squish it into place inside the frame.
    #promechaniclife

  9. #34
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    Happened to be near a Trek dealer and asked about their rivnuts. Oddly, he quoted a 5/16in. flange diameter. Not sure that can be true as the OEM flanges were about 11mm, nearly twice that.

    I will keep looking.
    Last edited by GKSki; 08-19-2020 at 05:43 PM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    Happened to near a Trek dealer and asked about their rivnuts. Oddly, he quoted a 5/16in. flange diameter. Not sure that can be true as the OEM flanges were about 11mm, nearly twice that.

    I will keep looking.
    That clearly can't be right. You wouldn't mix metric and fractional dimensions in a part spec for a rivnut to be used with a metric bolt. Be skeptical of that Trek dealer.

  11. #36
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    Looks like the McMaster-Carr rivet nut for plastics and composites in the 6mm version will be the way to go. Although these rivnuts have an enlarged back flange and with the 5mm version the front flange is 13mm (more than the ones it will replace), and the back flange is considerably wider than that. I may be able to go with the 5mm version, but while the 6mm version requires a 10mm drill bit (means enlarging the current holes slightly) the 5mm version calls for a "R" drill bit (no idea what that means).

    Looks like this would be a wholesale purchase and not retailed so I wonder of CX what he knows about the oversized rivnuts Trek Dealers can offer? I've tried 2 Trek Dealers so far without any luck.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    Looks like the McMaster-Carr rivet nut for plastics and composites in the 6mm version will be the way to go. Although these rivnuts have an enlarged back flange and with the 5mm version the front flange is 13mm (more than the ones it will replace), and the back flange is considerably wider than that. I may be able to go with the 5mm version, but while the 6mm version requires a 10mm drill bit (means enlarging the current holes slightly) the 5mm version calls for a "R" drill bit (no idea what that means).

    Looks like this would be a wholesale purchase and not retailed so I wonder of CX what he knows about the oversized rivnuts Trek Dealers can offer? I've tried 2 Trek Dealers so far without any luck.
    Just texted the other mechanic I used to work with at the Trek store and asked for part #'s. I'll let ya know.
    #promechaniclife

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    Looks like the McMaster-Carr rivet nut for plastics and composites in the 6mm version will be the way to go. Although these rivnuts have an enlarged back flange and with the 5mm version the front flange is 13mm (more than the ones it will replace), and the back flange is considerably wider than that. I may be able to go with the 5mm version, but while the 6mm version requires a 10mm drill bit (means enlarging the current holes slightly) the 5mm version calls for a "R" drill bit (no idea what that means).

    Looks like this would be a wholesale purchase and not retailed so I wonder of CX what he knows about the oversized rivnuts Trek Dealers can offer? I've tried 2 Trek Dealers so far without any luck.
    Just texted the other mechanic I used to work with at the Trek store and asked for part #'s. He sent this info:

    The regular rivnut is part # W316834
    Oversize rivnut is part# W307350
    #promechaniclife

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    Looks like the McMaster-Carr rivet nut for plastics and composites in the 6mm version will be the way to go. Although these rivnuts have an enlarged back flange and with the 5mm version the front flange is 13mm (more than the ones it will replace), and the back flange is considerably wider than that. I may be able to go with the 5mm version, but while the 6mm version requires a 10mm drill bit (means enlarging the current holes slightly) the 5mm version calls for a "R" drill bit (no idea what that means).

    Looks like this would be a wholesale purchase and not retailed so I wonder of CX what he knows about the oversized rivnuts Trek Dealers can offer? I've tried 2 Trek Dealers so far without any luck.
    I think anyone can order from McMaster-Carr, the only drawback is the shipping can be expensive. A size R drill bit is .339"

  15. #40
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    McMaster sells size "R" drill bits, too!. No need to know what it means, just order it and you'll be fine.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.R. View Post
    I think anyone can order from McMaster-Carr, the only drawback is the shipping can be expensive. A size R drill bit is .339"
    Yes anyone can order from McMaster. Shipping for small/single items is expensive. Last time I ordered from them is was like $8 minimum shipping.


    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    Although these rivnuts have an enlarged back flange and with the 5mm version the front flange is 13mm (more than the ones it will replace), and the back flange is considerably wider than that. I may be able to go with the 5mm version, but while the 6mm version requires a 10mm drill bit (means enlarging the current holes slightly) the 5mm version calls for a "R" drill bit (no idea what that means).
    This is the Rivnut you're looking at. It's a Bollhoff PLUSNUT. They probably don't sell direct, but I bet you could try contacting them and see if they'll send you 2 samples. Or Google the part number and see if you can find another distributor.
    Part Number: SM5P4.45
    https://www.rivetnutusa.com/plusnut-rivet-nut-rivnut/
    https://www.libertyeng.com/specialty...parts/sm5p4_45



    Drill Bits come in Number, Letter, Decimal, Fraction, and Metric sizes.

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  17. #42
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    I think I am best to go with the McMaster-Carr rivnut as it is made for plastic/composites and flattens to a larger diameter inside the tube. They are also pre-bulged so it may be easier to install them in a delicate hole in carbon.

    Seems if I went with the 5mm version the rivnut would not fit snugly in my 9mm holes and there is the potential for side to side play. If I go with the 6mm version, I will have to enlarge the holes with the recommended 10mm bit.

    What kind of drill bit and other precautions for drilling carbon tubes.

  18. #43
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    I think I am best to go with the McMaster-Carr rivnut as it is made for plastic/composites and flattens to a larger diameter inside the tube. .
    The McMaster part is a Bollhoff PLUSNUT. McMaster doesn't make them, they're just a distributor. It's the exact same nut .


    What kind of drill bit and other precautions for drilling carbon tubes
    .
    Any drill bit is fine.
    When drilling through an existing hole in thin tubing you have to be careful the bit doesn't catch and splinter the edge of the hole.
    It may be easier to use a dremel and open the hole. Just slowly go around until the nut fits in.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    When drilling through an existing hole in thin tubing you have to be careful the bit doesn't catch and splinter the edge of the hole.
    It may be easier to use a dremel and open the hole. Just slowly go around until the nut fits in.
    ^this

    I'm a metal worker/machinist and I wouldn't dream of trying to drill out a hole in CF with a regular drill bit. Well, okay, I might try it if there was no other option but the dremel (or die grinder) is a much better option.

  20. #45
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    Hmmm...no drilling or dremeling if I go with the 5mm version, but I had read many places that the rivnut has to drop in snugly to cinch up correctly. This one is 8.4mm dropping into a 9mm hole.

    No drilling, but perhaps some slop but then the finished flange is 13mm and it is stated that the inside finished flange is intentionally wider to secure the nut.

  21. #46
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    This one is 8.4mm dropping into a 9mm hole.
    If it were me I would use the 5mm. The hole is only 0.023" bigger.
    It has large fingers flared inside to not pull through plastic. It's not going to pull through CF from the weight of a water bottle.
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  22. #47
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    If I use the 5mm version, I am going to use painter's tape to mark off right/left and up/down for where the outside flange should be to make sure the rivnut is centered even though the pass through portion will be slightly smaller diameter than the hole.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    If I use the 5mm version, I am going to use painter's tape to mark off right/left and up/down for where the outside flange should be to make sure the rivnut is centered even though the pass through portion will be slightly smaller diameter than the hole.
    Like I said in an earlier post, practice on a piece of scrap tubing, maybe copper plumbing pipe. It's thin walled, just like your frame. There you'll find out whether a 5mm will work. I'd personally buy both 5mm and 6mm and practice until you're comfortable with your choice.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter P. View Post
    Can you hold it still enough to begin threading a bolt?

    What's usually done is, thread a nut on the new bolt and thread the bolt into the boss. Holding the bolt head stationary, tighten the "jam" nut against the boss. It should draw up the rivnut and secure it.
    I must be missing something. I fashioned the tool, but when I tighten the jam nut , all that happens is the bolt backs itself out of the plus nut.

  25. #50
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    Are you holding the bolt stationary?

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