Help needed: rear derailleur SRAM eTap cage plate hitting spokes when no chain
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  1. #1
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    Help needed: rear derailleur SRAM eTap cage plate hitting spokes when no chain

    I give up, I tried and tried..

    On my Canyon CF SLX whenever I remove the chain the rear derailleur (the area of the upper pulley bolt) is hitting the spokes rather hard, sometimes even with a spoke blocking on it. Please note this happened ONLY then the chain is off.

    Given there are two scenarios that this can be replicated on the road: chain falls from the inner chain ring, or chain breaking. I am obviously worried of having the rear wheel's spokes just snapping.

    I played with the inner limit literally for hours. Whenever I reach a position when the RD doesn't hit the spikes and put the chain back on then the shifting to the largest (biggest) cog is not working. When is slightly touching, shifting is ok-ish.

    The situation is the same on both wheel sets: Zipp 303 NSW, DA 9100 C40 (and was the same with the initial Zipp 202)

    Is any way I could adjust the alignment of the cage plate so that the upper pulley would stop hitting the spokes in case of chain falling/braking?

    I replaced the RD hanger, same issue...

    Many thanks for any suggestions

  2. #2
    wim
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorin View Post
    I played with the inner limit literally for hours.
    Start over, and with decent instructions. In short: First, you electronically align the cage directly under the largest cog. Only after that is done do you touch the limit screw. It sounds like you may not have followed this sequence. (You may have to back out the limit screw for the electronic alignment to work correctly).

    For what it's worth: a derailleur cage going into the spokes at speed may not snap any spokes at all. Often, contact with the wheel will rotate the derailleur clockwise around its mounting bolt until the mangled cage and the chain hit the frame hard. That can be much worse than just snapping a spoke or two.
    Last edited by wim; 02-10-2017 at 04:39 AM.

  3. #3
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    Sorry, I didn't express correctly, that's what I wanted to say, played with the electronic adjustments.

    I know the chances are really small for that to happen, when climbing, smallest chainring to biggest cog and the highest tension in the chain, guess I have to maintain the heck out of that chain and replace regularly. Sure new chain every couple of months (~800-1000km) is cheaper than rebuilding half a wheel..

  4. #4
    wim
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    I'm stumped if you precisely aligned the cage (upper jockey wheel) electronically with the largest cog before you even touched the limit screw. You did the right thing. But you can't depend on the chain to keep the derailleur in its place, that's just crazy. Someone else may have the solution to your problem.

    Have you checked to see if the screws holding the new hanger to the frame are tight?
    Last edited by wim; 02-10-2017 at 07:16 AM.

  5. #5
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorin View Post
    I give up, I tried and tried..

    On my Canyon CF SLX whenever I remove the chain the rear derailleur (the area of the upper pulley bolt) is hitting the spokes rather hard, sometimes even with a spoke blocking on it. Please note this happened ONLY then the chain is off.

    Given there are two scenarios that this can be replicated on the road: chain falls from the inner chain ring, or chain breaking. I am obviously worried of having the rear wheel's spokes just snapping.

    I played with the inner limit literally for hours. Whenever I reach a position when the RD doesn't hit the spikes and put the chain back on then the shifting to the largest (biggest) cog is not working. When is slightly touching, shifting is ok-ish.

    The situation is the same on both wheel sets: Zipp 303 NSW, DA 9100 C40 (and was the same with the initial Zipp 202)

    Is any way I could adjust the alignment of the cage plate so that the upper pulley would stop hitting the spokes in case of chain falling/braking?

    I replaced the RD hanger, same issue...

    Many thanks for any suggestions
    You need to take the bike to a bike shop w/ a good mechanic, there is NO reason for this to take more than 1-2mins.
    I work for some bike racers
    I've got some bikes, some guns,
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  6. #6
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    The hanger screws have a tension of 2 nM, took if off, used the park tool torque (3nm thought I can dialed it down, broke the threads)
    Put the replacement, used Canyon torque tool, when I reached 2nM threads broken again...
    Ordered 3 hangers...
    The screws that come with are abt 1m shorter, they don't portrude to the end, only clamping on the first half of the thread, bad design if you ask me, on the new hangers I'll use slightly longer screws, will precisely measure them so not protrude too much and touch the cassette cap.

    Amazing how a usd 20 piece of equipment can render a USD 8'000 bike useless

  7. #7
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    I agree, under normal circumstances. Actually I meant the micro adjustment.aligning the derailleur flat aligned to the 28 cog will smash the spokes when no chain is attached. Therefore micro-adj away whilst still maintain a functional shifting, that's not 2min!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorin View Post
    ...I played with the inner limit literally for hours.

    ...broke the threads ...threads broken again...

    I give up, I tried and tried..
    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    You need to take the bike to a bike shop w/ a good mechanic, there is NO reason for this to take more than 1-2mins.
    This.
    use a torque wrench

  9. #9
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    Why you assume I have no idea what i'm doing? On the hanger is written 2nM. On the online manual (not in the one delivered) i found today is written on a foot note the screws must be torqued with max 1.5nM. I later specified I was referring to micro-adj, not limit screw. Pls read what I said before patronizing. Maybe you don't want to hear this but putting a bike together is not that of a big deal if one knows his way around dyi, documents oneself and has the proper tools.
    After building rc jet planes with actual turbines, tuning rc plane engines and micro soldering, putting a bike together is a piece of cake. I'm not the only one with this issue, were you to own a canyon same exact model and use the same RD then yes

  10. #10
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorin View Post
    Why you assume I have no idea what i'm doing? On the hanger is written 2nM. On the online manual (not in the one delivered) i found today is written on a foot note the screws must be torqued with max 1.5nM. I later specified I was referring to micro-adj, not limit screw. Pls read what I said before patronizing. Maybe you don't want to hear this but putting a bike together is not that of a big deal if one knows his way around dyi, documents oneself and has the proper tools.
    After building rc jet planes with actual turbines, tuning rc plane engines and micro soldering, putting a bike together is a piece of cake. I'm not the only one with this issue, were you to own a canyon same exact model and use the same RD then yes
    You're kidding, right?

    And apparently it is kind of a big deal because you don't seem to be able to make it work. Bikes are simple, yes. But there a LOT of people that pay me to keep their bike working correctly. You might want to do the same.
    I work for some bike racers
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  11. #11
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    post deleted
    Last edited by dorin; 02-10-2017 at 10:03 PM.

  12. #12
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    Pls read the full context, I regularly take my bikes to pieces to service them, and given the lbs next to my home that are ditributors of specialized and bmc just called me to say couldn't fix the issue and needs to call around to ask shows is a tricky one. I'm taking the main (older) bike to yearly service not once had they have to adjust or replace anything as I maintained it perfectly and replaced all that was needed.
    I was asking for ideas on this issue and just didn't get why some automatically assume one has no idea what is doing, that's all...
    I know my limits, I'd never try to true wheels, can't risk making more damage, but installing shifters, brakes, crankset, derailleurs and chains is not rocket science...
    Last edited by dorin; 02-10-2017 at 01:38 PM.

  13. #13
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorin View Post
    Pls read the full context, I regularly take my bikes to pieces to service them, and given the lbs next to my home that are ditributors of specialized and bmc just called me to say couldn't fix the issue and needs to call around to ask shows is a tricky one. I'm taking the main (older) bike to yearly service not once had they have to adjust or replace anything as I maintained it perfectly and replaced all that was needed.
    I was asking for ideas on this issue and just didn't get why some automatically assume one has no idea what is doing, that's all...
    I know my limits, I'd never try to true wheels, can't risk making more damage, but installing shifters, brakes, crankset, derailleurs and chains is not rocket science...
    So it's fixed? No? Sure sounds like you're doing a great job to me.


    Do not add spacers between your cassette and freehub in an attempt to make things work. Fix the problem correctly or don't do anything at all. "Garage" mechanic fixes are not good in most cases. There are a couple of cases where spacers are needed but they are very specific. There are none of these cases that involve 11 speed drivetrains.

    If your derailleur cage is hitting the spokes (and your hanger is correctly aligned) there can really only be one reason. The low limit is not set correctly. You don't need to worry about proper torque for the hanger screws...well, maybe you do as you've managed to break them. It doesn't matter what brand/model of bike it is, it's a bike and a derailleur. If SRAM saw the need to make a derailleur specifically for this Canyon model, then maybe...but they don't so it doesn't matter.
    I work for some bike racers
    I've got some bikes, some guns,
    and a bunch of skateboards

  14. #14
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    Many thanks for the advice! Really! As I said I like to do things myself and have it blessed in the end by the lbs mechanic. Is not abt saving money, I'd rather call myself wasteful. How much would the lbs charge to install a pressfit? 5usd? I preferred to buy the brt-003 to do it myself, that would be the cost of 32 BB pressfit installs.
    As said I take the bike once a season to one of the 3 lbs in Zurich for an inspection, I seriously do not understand what the issue is when someone tries to do it themselves, the parts I always buy them from them.

    But after one lbs said 2 yrs ago the bike is perfect and I thought was strange as I had the chain for almost 3k km and few mins after I bought the chain-check tool I had to buy another chain immediately, or once asked to have the backup bike ready for winter, and opened afterwards the bb to see how much amount of grease he used to find it still dirty and not greased. I hope you understand why I try to do it myself. Generally in ZRH if you didn't buy the bike from them (you know Canyon and their direct approach) they don't care, I still visit them for the piece of mind(and of my insurance), but have yet to be told something I did was wrong.

    BUT I think I fixed it. Took the chain off (by the way is the power link from sram "re-usable"?!) and was taking pictures to send to sram and ask if the angle of the cage is off or this their yaw approach when I I thought aligning an angled jokey upper wheel with a "parallell" cassette Is just not possible, and took in consideration only the upper half of the jockey wheel and aligned the "travel" the chain would give to the cog then set the limit screw.

    Apparently it worked! Healthy almost 2mm of space, smooth shifting (after some additional micro adj especially at the 11 teeth cog).

    Now of course let's see how it will behave when under actual pressure....need to wait for the hangers first, and c'mon why would be written on the hanger 2nM and on an updated manual dated 3 weeks ago 1.5nm...

    Does applying microadj again after setting the limit screw is ok? By the way it engages the servo tells me is a simple impulse servo, engaging only till hits the next resistance level and not a torque one.

    Again many thanks for the suggestion!

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