Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31
  1. #1
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    2

    Need lower gearing for hills

    Hello -

    I have a Lightspeed Hyperion bike with a Shimano Ultegra groupset. Rear derailleur is stamped Ultegra Rd-6500. 53/39 chain rings. 12/25 cassette. Mavic Cosmos hub.

    I want to get lower gearing for hills. Don't want to spend a ton of money. Can I swap out the cassette and rear derailleur?

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks,
    Dave

  2. #2
    tlg
    tlg is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: tlg's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    13,122
    How much lower?

    What about a new crank?
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-Sor...0AAOSwor1aXsGW
    Custom Di2 & Garmin/GoPro mounts 2013 SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD Team * 2004 Klein Aura V

  3. #3
    ngl
    ngl is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    652
    This will help you understand gear ratios.

    BikeCalc.com - Bicycle Gear Inches Chart

    You can swap your crank (as tlg stated above), your cassette or both depending on your needs. You may also require a new RD and a different length chain. Do you have an idea of what you want/need for gearing?

  4. #4
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,936
    Answer these questions to help us help you with this:

    1) What is the most money you can spend?
    2) How much lower gearing do you need?

    Many possibilities here. Cheapest option would be a larger cassette and rear derailleur. I take it your 6500 group is a 9-speed cassette. Best thing to do is find a 9-speed mountain cassette and a 10-speed road derailleur which will work fine with your 6500 shifters. DO NOT buy an 11-speed road derailleur as it has a different actuation ratio and will not work with your 6500 shifter!

    11-32T 9-speed cassette (32T is max for derailleur below):

    https://www.merlincycles.com/shimano...yABEgITgvD_BwE

    105 5700 mid-cage rear derailleur (DO NOT get a 5800):

    Shimano 105 RD-5701 10SP Rear Derailleur | Jenson USA
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  5. #5
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,768
    If you're talking about real hills, like mountains, you will need to do more than the RD. Go compact.
    BANNED

  6. #6
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    2
    To answer the question of how much lower gearing, I estimated this using the following method:

    I put my Lightspeed in the lowest gearing (39 front, 25 rear) and rolled it out on the sidewalk, turning the crank by hand, and marked the spot on the cement at 1 full crank revolution. I then adjusted my mt bike to give the same results. Gearing on mt bike ended up at 32 front, 21 rear. I then rode around the street on my mt bike and geared down to the point where it "felt" like the gearing was what I'm looking for on my Lightspeed. At that point the gearing on my mt. bike was at 32 front, 28 rear.

    I don't know how to do the math to calculate all of this and I'm not sure how to use the calculator that ngl mentioned above or what those numbers mean. Here are some additional measurements in case these are needed:

    Lightspeed crank: 172.5
    Lightspeed rims: 622
    Lightspeed tires: 622x15

    Mt bike crank: 175
    Mt bike rims: 26 inches
    Mt bike tires: 26x2.35 inches

    As far as how much am I willing to spend I don't have an exact number but I think I can probably afford to buy a used derailleur and cassette on eBay plus a new chain if needed.

  7. #7
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,936
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTurk View Post
    Lightspeed crank: 172.5
    Lightspeed rims: 622
    Lightspeed tires: 622x15

    Mt bike crank: 175
    Mt bike rims: 26 inches
    Mt bike tires: 26x2.35 inches
    Not much to this info. 172.5 and 175 are the length of the crank arms. This will not change your cadence.

    Tire size will change your gearing a little, but not a whole lot. Yes, you could go from 700c to 650b wheels to get a little lower gearing, but that gets expensive fast and won't give you a drastic improvement.

    And yes, you will need a new chain if buying a wider range cassette as the old one will be too short for the new cassette and larger cage derailleur.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  8. #8
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    1,719
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTurk View Post
    To answer the question of how much lower gearing, I estimated this using the following method:

    I put my Lightspeed in the lowest gearing (39 front, 25 rear) and rolled it out on the sidewalk, turning the crank by hand, and marked the spot on the cement at 1 full crank revolution. I then adjusted my mt bike to give the same results. Gearing on mt bike ended up at 32 front, 21 rear. I then rode around the street on my mt bike and geared down to the point where it "felt" like the gearing was what I'm looking for on my Lightspeed. At that point the gearing on my mt. bike was at 32 front, 28 rear.

    I don't know how to do the math to calculate all of this and I'm not sure how to use the calculator that ngl mentioned above or what those numbers mean. Here are some additional measurements in case these are needed:

    Lightspeed crank: 172.5
    Lightspeed rims: 622
    Lightspeed tires: 622x15

    Mt bike crank: 175
    Mt bike rims: 26 inches
    Mt bike tires: 26x2.35 inches

    As far as how much am I willing to spend I don't have an exact number but I think I can probably afford to buy a used derailleur and cassette on eBay plus a new chain if needed.
    You need to know what gearing works for you on the rides you do. We can’t tell you that, thus can’t make better suggestions.

    One method is to ride your mt. bike on those hills and determine which gear combinations are useful in getting the bike up the hills you ride, with a level of effort you want on the road bike, make a note of the chainring used and the rear cassette on those climbs. Also count the teeth and note the chainring setup, as well as the cogs and numbers of teeth.

    Then go to a gear chart calculator and punch in the numbers from your mt. bike and look at which gears worked for the climbs. You can use gain ratio or gear inches.

    Then figure out how to get that gearing by changing the cassette, rear derailer (maybe) and chain (likely), and/or the crank as well. You can do some research on assorted mail order bike sites to find out which cranks and cassettes are available for 9 speed, systems.

    Sheldon has a useful gear calculator and shows which cassettes are available.

    Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator

  9. #9
    ngl
    ngl is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    652
    My rough calculations show the OP wants about 27.5 gear inches. I believe this will require a new compact crank with 50/34 rings, new 11-32 (or 11-34) 9-speed cassette, new RD and new chain.

  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: GlobalGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    378
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTurk View Post
    Hello -

    I have a Lightspeed Hyperion bike with a Shimano Ultegra groupset. Rear derailleur is stamped Ultegra Rd-6500. 53/39 chain rings. 12/25 cassette. Mavic Cosmos hub.

    I want to get lower gearing for hills. Don't want to spend a ton of money. Can I swap out the cassette and rear derailleur?

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks,
    Dave
    Yes, it is easy. Go to Shimano web site. Pick your mountain bike cassette with the gearing you want. Pick the appropriate matching compatible rear derailleur. Write the info down. You will need one final piece made by Wolf Tooth, (see their website.) It is called a tanpan. You can tell them what your bike's current gearing is, the cassette and rear derailleur are and they will tell you with certainty if it will all fit. (They are very friendly and knowledgeable. Very customer friendly.

    Ballpark the tanpan, cassette, and derailleur will cost you about $200.

    Note: another option that might pop up in research to do what you want is instead of using the tanpan system use a Wolf Tooth Road Link. (Don't believe it if says you can use your existing rear derailleur.) Don't even think about road link path. Although it's cheaper and has some serious issues in different areas and even though on some bikes it will work with certain limitations, nevertheless nowhere as good and it also will not offer you the wide gear range the tanpan and new rear derailleur will.

  11. #11
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,936
    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    Yes, it is easy. Go to Shimano web site. Pick your mountain bike cassette with the gearing you want. Pick the appropriate matching compatible rear derailleur. Write the info down. You will need one final piece made by Wolf Tooth, (see their website.) It is called a tanpan. You can tell them what your bike's current gearing is, the cassette and rear derailleur are and they will tell you with certainty if it will all fit. (They are very friendly and knowledgeable. Very customer friendly.

    Ballpark the tanpan, cassette, and derailleur will cost you about $200.

    Note: another option that might pop up in research to do what you want is instead of using the tanpan system use a Wolf Tooth Road Link. (Don't believe it if says you can use your existing rear derailleur.) Don't even think about road link path. Although it's cheaper and has some serious issues in different areas and even though on some bikes it will work with certain limitations, nevertheless nowhere as good and it also will not offer you the wide gear range the tanpan and new rear derailleur will.
    Regardless of whether you use the Wolftooth road link or tanpan, you will still need to use a larger cage derailleur. The Wolftooth will compenate for the different geometry of a road derailleur, but a short cage derailleur simply cannot wrap enough chain to work with a cassette larger than 30T and even that is pushing it. You will either have a very loose sloppy chain in smaller gears or at worst, you can bind your chain in the large/large combo with potentially catastrophic results.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  12. #12
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    154
    9 speed, sweet. Get a 50/34 crankset (under 100$ for a shimano 105 fc-5750 on ebay, they're good and light) and a 12-28 ultegra cassette. Get a new chain while you're at it. Whole new drivetrain for under 200$.

    If you need even lower gearing than that a 10sp XT rear derailleur will work perfectly and allow you to use a 11-34 9sp cassette.

    You don't need to fuss around with wolflink/tampan bodges when you've got these options.


    Your current gearing is BRUTAL. Fine for flatlanders and pros.

  13. #13
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: GlobalGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    378
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Regardless of whether you use the Wolftooth road link or tanpan, you will still need to use a larger cage derailleur. The Wolftooth will compenate for the different geometry of a road derailleur, but a short cage derailleur simply cannot wrap enough chain to work with a cassette larger than 30T and even that is pushing it. You will either have a very loose sloppy chain in smaller gears or at worst, you can bind your chain in the large/large combo with potentially catastrophic results.
    Yes, I know. That's why I said in my post, "Pick your mountain bike cassette with the gearing you want. Pick the appropriate matching compatible rear derailleur.

  14. #14
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: BCSaltchucker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    1,939
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Regardless of whether you use the Wolftooth road link or tanpan, you will still need to use a larger cage derailleur. The Wolftooth will compenate for the different geometry of a road derailleur, but a short cage derailleur simply cannot wrap enough chain to work with a cassette larger than 30T and even that is pushing it. You will either have a very loose sloppy chain in smaller gears or at worst, you can bind your chain in the large/large combo with potentially catastrophic results.
    not necessarily. depending on the derailleur hanger, a short cage shimano rear mech will handle a compact crank w 11-32 very well, as it does on my wife's ultegra di2 bike. bit more chain but it is definitely not a sloppy loose chain. 32T rear should be standard now anwyays
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  15. #15
    'brifter' is a lame word.
    Reputation: cxwrench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    13,454
    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    not necessarily. depending on the derailleur hanger, a short cage shimano rear mech will handle a compact crank w 11-32 very well, as it does on my wife's ultegra di2 bike. bit more chain but it is definitely not a sloppy loose chain. 32T rear should be standard now anwyays
    Show us a photo of this bike in small/small and big/big please.
    I work for some bike racers
    I've got some bikes, some guns,
    and a bunch of skateboards

  16. #16
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: GlobalGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    378
    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    not necessarily. depending on the derailleur hanger, a short cage shimano rear mech will handle a compact crank w 11-32 very well, as it does on my wife's ultegra di2 bike. bit more chain but it is definitely not a sloppy loose chain. 32T rear should be standard now anwyays
    I agree that 32T should be the standard. Also, if you like to do or need to do a lot of climbing or long rides with some long climbs in them and you lack the sufficient power to weight ration much higher gearing choices are necessary for an enjoyable and optimal ride. You should never run out of gears on a bike ride.

    I'm 72, 6'4 and about 235 pounds. Been a serious road cyclist for a long time. I have an unlimited choice of terrain to ride on. I like to climb and or do long rides. I've been losing power the last year and one half.

    Consequently, I recently switched my rear cassette setup from an 11 Speed Shimano 11-32T to an 11 speed 11-40. It was a good choice. Besides the added gearing for the steep climbs or steep parts of a long climb, (double-digit gradient), I also discovered the joy of riding or staying in the big rig additional options available to me for certain situations with the new setup.

    Tony Martin's favorite riding gear is a 58/32T...uh, that's a little beyond me.

  17. #17
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    133
    11-32 may not be the standard, but it's the standard for me. I switched a few years back with the 10 speed. I just upgraded my setup to 11 speed and installed the 11-32. One of the benefits of going to 11 speed for me is I gained or regained the 17t cog that I lost in the 10 speed setup. The 32 is an insurance policy for me (better to have and not need, than to need and not have), plus I don't get out of the saddle on climbs, so the 32, if needed, lets me stay seated. I have come to grips that I am not as strong as I was when I was younger. Oh, I'm also running a compact setup.

    Note to OP: With the SRAM setup, I had to go to a mid cage rear derailleur (Force WiFli) to accommodate the 32t. Just an FYI.
    Last edited by Methodical; 02-24-2018 at 02:41 PM.

  18. #18
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,936
    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical View Post
    The 32 is an insurance policy for me (better to have and not need, than to need and not have)
    ^This.^
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  19. #19
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    13
    We hear an increasing amount of talk from riders about how they find it difficult to sustain (or sometimes even reach) a fluid spin when climbing with 'traditional' pro road racing spec chainring ratios, especially climbing on routes with repeated steeps, or long single pitches.
    For anyone running a Shimano double up front, it's worth considering the new sub compact road ovals from absoluteBLACK. For a lot of riders looking to for a bit of faster spin (especially in lumpy terrain) the slightly lower ratios 30/46 and 32/48 can be a big help.
    https://absoluteblack.cc/oval-road-c...-for-110-4bcd/

  20. #20
    Russian Troll Farmer
    Reputation: No Time Toulouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,822
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTurk View Post
    ............

    I don't know how to do the math to calculate all of this ....
    Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  21. #21
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    176
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveTurk View Post
    I have a Lightspeed Hyperion bike with a Shimano Ultegra groupset. Rear derailleur is stamped Ultegra Rd-6500. 53/39 chain rings. 12/25 cassette. Mavic Cosmos hub.

    I want to get lower gearing for hills. Don't want to spend a ton of money. Can I swap out the cassette and rear derailleur?
    Your RD-6500 can take a 27tooth sprocket.
    If that is not sufficient you can convert to a compact crank.
    This should do it then.

  22. #22
    ngl
    ngl is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    652
    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas_Illesch View Post
    Your RD-6500 can take a 27tooth sprocket.
    If that is not sufficient you can convert to a compact crank.
    This should do it then.
    Changing from a 25t to a 27t will only lower his gearing by about 3.2 gear inches (41.03 to 37.87). The OP wants about 27.5 gear inches based on his second post. This will require a compact crank with 50/34 rings and 11-32 (or 11-34) 9-speed cassette. Another option might be a sub compact crank.

  23. #23
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    176
    Quote Originally Posted by ngl View Post
    Changing from a 25t to a 27t will only lower his gearing by about 3.2 gear inches (41.03 to 37.87). The OP wants about 27.5 gear inches based on his second post. This will require a compact crank with 50/34 rings and 11-32 (or 11-34) 9-speed cassette.
    39/25 to 34/27 is quite a step.
    OP should try it before investing in a new RD.

  24. #24
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    13
    Hi, Methodical,
    A switch to Sub Compact rings, such as these, made by us
    https://absoluteblack.cc/oval-road-c...-for-110-4bcd/ would get you where you need to be with the ratios, keeping smooth shifting and without requiring a change of rear derailleur.
    Cheers,
    www.absoluteBLACK.cc

  25. #25
    coaster
    Reputation: Lelandjt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,051
    TLDR: Did anyone say HTFU yet?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Gearing: Do I Need Lower Gears?
    By Lawfarm in forum Components, Wrenching
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 08-20-2010, 12:43 PM
  2. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 11-11-2009, 09:52 PM
  3. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-16-2006, 05:53 PM
  4. Rinaldi - Mission Hills/Granada Hills/Northridge
    By sabbathu in forum Southern California
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-08-2006, 07:11 PM
  5. The hills, the hills, they're calling
    By PeatD in forum Other Areas
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-15-2005, 12:35 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT ROADBIKEREVIEW

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2018 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.