New build - questions about rim brakes and cadence computer
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  1. #1
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    New build - questions about rim brakes and cadence computer

    Hello! I scored a steel fixed frameset, a 2017 Cinelli Vigorelli for a ridiculously low price. I want a retro build, and will use the fixie for training, improving my cadence, climbing and average speed. I used to ride an incredibly low end fixie that camed with defective, above 3 kg wheelset (!), and it improved the above mentioned within a few months - more than a year of riding a higher end geared bike.
    My questions are about the brakes. I will use a front brake only, as I want no cables stretching across the frame for a rear brake, and because reports say the tyre clearance of the back of the frame is a tight fit. Officially, the frame supports 700x28c tyres, so I will try to squeeze in the widest I can, maybe 700x30, or even a 700x32 that is actually slimmer. I will use 622x15 rims.
    So, my first questions is about brake drop. I use Tektro R559 on two touring bikes with 700x38c, I am impressed by the price/performance ration. But some user reviews claim that the drop might be too deep for their bike. So, how could I know if the drop is too much for 700x28 or 700x30c tyres?
    My second question is about bike computers with cadence. I am used to Sigma computers, I have been using many fairly high end ones on different bikes, installed by different bike mechanics. All Sigma computers soon lose the cadence, it disappears from the menu, and even a computer replacement by the manufacturer did not fix it.
    My question is - can using just a bike calc replace the average cadence count? I am not interessed in current or maximum cadence measurement. Bike calc shows the cadence at certain speeds. Since I`ll ride a fixie with only a single gear ratio, can I use the calc to determine what the average cadence was for the ride? For example, riding close to 62 gear inches, 44x19 setup, the calc shows 85 cadence at 25 kph. So, iff I return home after a 100 km ride and average speed is 25 kph, does this mean the average cadence for the whole ride was 85 RPM? Any help will be much appreciated.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee-an-key View Post
    Using a Shimano grease on a Campy part will result in a new world order, your wheels will only spin one way, your bottom bracket will only turn from 12 oclock to 6 oclock, your headset will only turn left. Big problems. Use Sram and your bike will only roll backwards.

  2. #2
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    Yes on a fixie, your cadence is directly tied to your speed. You just have to workout the math based on all your components. Now if you use wheel circumference to determine speed, that could be a careful decision on what your wheel circ is.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for the quick response. When using web-based calculators like Machars gear calc, I carefully enter my gear ration, a 44x19, and 700C, and 28mm tyres. So I do not need the hassle of paying the price premium for cadence sensors, installing them, having them on my minimalistic build? I just need to use tha calc and determine what my effective average cadence was, given the average speed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee-an-key View Post
    Using a Shimano grease on a Campy part will result in a new world order, your wheels will only spin one way, your bottom bracket will only turn from 12 oclock to 6 oclock, your headset will only turn left. Big problems. Use Sram and your bike will only roll backwards.

  4. #4
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    Yes, if you want it super accurate, actually measure your circ, not standized tables.
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  5. #5
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    What do you mean by "super accurate"? If there is a difference of +- 5 RPM, give or take, I would not mind. I prefer the hassle-free solution of having no cadence sensor installed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee-an-key View Post
    Using a Shimano grease on a Campy part will result in a new world order, your wheels will only spin one way, your bottom bracket will only turn from 12 oclock to 6 oclock, your headset will only turn left. Big problems. Use Sram and your bike will only roll backwards.

  6. #6
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    If your not worried about 5%, you have no worries.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixt00l View Post
    Thanks for the quick response. When using web-based calculators like Machars gear calc, I carefully enter my gear ration, a 44x19, and 700C, and 28mm tyres. So I do not need the hassle of paying the price premium for cadence sensors, installing them, having them on my minimalistic build? I just need to use tha calc and determine what my effective average cadence was, given the average speed?
    Do you always ride the same uninterrupted flat windless route?

    I can't think of any data that would be more useless then comparing cadence based on average speed with a fixie unless you're rides are all identical.

  8. #8
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    I don`t...how does this relate to the cadence? In windy conditions the changes of speed should lead to changes in the cadence as well, if I`m not mistaking. I was told by a cycling pro that I should train with different bikes, on very different routes through the week, so I plan to do a day of climbing, a day of flats, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee-an-key View Post
    Using a Shimano grease on a Campy part will result in a new world order, your wheels will only spin one way, your bottom bracket will only turn from 12 oclock to 6 oclock, your headset will only turn left. Big problems. Use Sram and your bike will only roll backwards.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixt00l View Post
    I don`t...how does this relate to the cadence? In windy conditions the changes of speed should lead to changes in the cadence as well, if I`m not mistaking. I was told by a cycling pro that I should train with different bikes, on very different routes through the week, so I plan to do a day of climbing, a day of flats, etc.
    To use hypothetical guessed numbers. The day of climbing will give you a cadence of 50. The day of flats 95. The next different days of climbing and flats will give you 45 and 100 or whatever.
    If you think there is any value to comparing cadence with a fixed gear on varied rides knock yourself out. There isn't though.

    You respond to the suggestion of using different bikes but getting a fixed gear which is as similar as could be from ride to ride? Maybe he meant different gears and cadence but no real 'pro' is going to think different bikes alone has any training value unless he meant cx or mtn for bike handling value.
    Last edited by Jay Strongbow; 08-08-2019 at 04:39 AM.

  10. #10
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    His climbing cadence is going to be 20 or lower, his flats 60. Everyone has to go their own way.
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  11. #11
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    If you do a square loop on a 15mph windy day you'll deal with a head wind, tail wind, crossing head wind and crossing tail wind. Whatever your average speed ends up being will have no bearing on your cadence. So your 25kph day will probably not be 25kph in each direction which would mean that your cadence will be different in each direction. That average cadence will tell you nothing about your cadences in the different conditions.

    A rolling ride will also change cadence, depending on climbing or descending and your avg. cadence will be, again, kinda meaningless.

    And I haven't talked about gusting winds, which can vary large amounts.
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  12. #12
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    I meant that the pro told me to ride different bikes during the week, or else muscular development etc. won`t be the best. I am interested only in the average cadence on the fixed bike - the Sigma ROX 9 I have on the geared bike stopped showing cadence, but last time it was average 66 RPM on a 200km brevet. So I don`t care about cadence on the geared bike. The best I have achieved is 24 kph average speed on the geared bike, including panniers, on a 120km ride with some really steep climbs, so I won`t to improve by riding fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee-an-key View Post
    Using a Shimano grease on a Campy part will result in a new world order, your wheels will only spin one way, your bottom bracket will only turn from 12 oclock to 6 oclock, your headset will only turn left. Big problems. Use Sram and your bike will only roll backwards.

  13. #13
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    Mathematically speaking his avg speed will directly relate to his average cadence.
    The significance of this information is hugely speculative and open to discussion.
    When I'm on a ride I have an avg speed, and I have a cadence. I try and keep my cadence within a certain range when outputting power, or different cadence if my knees hurt.
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  14. #14
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    Thanks! So, how does a velo-computer with a cadence sensor deal with these conditions, how does it show correctly the average cadence?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bee-an-key View Post
    Using a Shimano grease on a Campy part will result in a new world order, your wheels will only spin one way, your bottom bracket will only turn from 12 oclock to 6 oclock, your headset will only turn left. Big problems. Use Sram and your bike will only roll backwards.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixt00l View Post
    Thanks! So, how does a velo-computer with a cadence sensor deal with these conditions, how does it show correctly the average cadence?
    It obviously does some math.
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