Rear derailleur compatibility across 9,10 and 11 speeds - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    My shifter and derailleur set is in USPS limbo. Can’t even track the damn packet even with registered post and tracking. Last I know is that it’s here in country. DeJoy is taking all the fun out of the anticipation of the package. It’s been a month and a half. Everything else is here. Cassette, Crankset and brake. Beyond bummed.


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  2. #27
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    Shipping has been really weird lately. I ordered Campy brake springs from Nashbar and they took 4 weeks, but the 4 orders I got from overseas got here in 3 days (each one!). I think it's a USPS thing because the overseas orders all come by DHL.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    You don't have a clue about SRAM for one thing...and you need to just go ride your bike for another. But since you're going to do it anyway I am interested to see how the Chinese stuff works. And further down the road how it holds up.
    As somebody who has SRAM groups on two bikes, that is a statement that doesn’t make sense. I am talking about The group from a purely engineering perspective. I have been riding for more than thirty years now and in that time has ridden everything from 6speed to 10 speed. This includes Shimano, Suntour, Mavic, Campy, and yes, for a brief period, I had Simplex DT shifters on one of my bikes. All groups have their idiosyncrasies in how they work. The original 8 speed Campy Ergo was plain awful compared to any of the Shimano lineup. And I mean 105 vs Record. D/A was no comparison, just blew it out of the water.
    SRAM groups have a tendency to be more finicky because their tolerances are all over the map. Even after 10 years, I still wince every time I shift a gear because it sounds like something broke. Getting the front derailleur adjusted properly to shift involves a lot of swearing compared to Shimano. I haven’t tried the 11 speed yet just because.


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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by arshak View Post
    SRAM groups have a tendency to be more finicky because their tolerances are all over the map. Even after 10 years, I still wince every time I shift a gear because it sounds like something broke. Getting the front derailleur adjusted properly to shift involves a lot of swearing compared to Shimano. I haven’t tried the 11 speed yet just because.
    Which SRAM groups have you owned that you had so much trouble with?
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by arshak View Post
    As somebody who has SRAM groups on two bikes, that is a statement that doesn’t make sense. I am talking about The group from a purely engineering perspective. I have been riding for more than thirty years now and in that time has ridden everything from 6speed to 10 speed. This includes Shimano, Suntour, Mavic, Campy, and yes, for a brief period, I had Simplex DT shifters on one of my bikes. All groups have their idiosyncrasies in how they work. The original 8 speed Campy Ergo was plain awful compared to any of the Shimano lineup. And I mean 105 vs Record. D/A was no comparison, just blew it out of the water.
    SRAM groups have a tendency to be more finicky because their tolerances are all over the map. Even after 10 years, I still wince every time I shift a gear because it sounds like something broke. Getting the front derailleur adjusted properly to shift involves a lot of swearing compared to Shimano. I haven’t tried the 11 speed yet just because.


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    That's odd. My first pro team experience w/ SRAM was their first season in '05. Every road, mtb, and cx team I've worked for since then has been on SRAM. I've found it to be very forgiving compared to Shimano and I know why. Front derailleurs? Easy. I'm guessing my experience is a little more...uhhhhmmm...in depth than yours.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Which SRAM groups have you owned that you had so much trouble with?
    Rival 10 speed on one and Force on another. The Force groupset is better compared to Rival but the front derailleur setup takes time and patience, more so than any other group. I am also worried about durability of the shifters.


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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by arshak View Post
    Rival 10 speed on one and Force on another. The Force groupset is better compared to Rival but the front derailleur setup takes time and patience, more so than any other group. I am also worried about durability of the shifters.
    Why are your worried about durability? Feeling?
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by arshak View Post
    Rival 10 speed on one and Force on another. The Force groupset is better compared to Rival but the front derailleur setup takes time and patience, more so than any other group. I am also worried about durability of the shifters.


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    Funny, those 2 shifters use identical internals. And the front derailleur? It's exactly the same set-up as any other 'normal' derailleur. Yaw is a little morr involved, and the new toggle link Shimano derailleurs are much more involved. None of them are difficult, there are just more steps in the process.

    You're worried about durability? You have 10 speed parts and they're still working...why are you worried? They're already old.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Funny, those 2 shifters use identical internals.
    So what is the difference between Rival and Force? Does anything besides weight and cosmetics make Force "better"?
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    So what is the difference between Rival and Force? Does anything besides weight and cosmetics make Force "better"?
    Those were the first gen SRAM. The difference was alloy or carbon for the lever. As for as how they function...exactly the same.

    ETA: There might have been a difference in the trim on the left lever. I seem to remember the Force trimmed in the big ring and Rival in the small ring but it's been a long time. The right levers were the same.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Why are your worried about durability? Feeling?
    Heard too many horror stories. Also, tactile feedback. Like they are going to break. They also need the internals debunked every two years or earlier if left in the garage in winter


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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by arshak View Post
    Heard too many horror stories. Also, tactile feedback. Like they are going to break. They also need the internals debunked every two years or earlier if left in the garage in winter. Third, a friend of mine who is a uscf certified mechanic since 1980 hates to work on them because they need constant tlc


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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by arshak View Post
    Heard too many horror stories. Also, tactile feedback. Like they are going to break. They also need the internals debunked every two years or earlier if left in the garage in winter
    I'd like to hear about these "horror stories". What happened? Do you know the people who had problems or did you read reviews? Did a shifter actually break?

    As far as getting gunked up, that can happen to Shimano as well.
    "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein.

    "With
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by arshak View Post
    Heard too many horror stories. Also, tactile feedback. Like they are going to break. They also need the internals debunked every two years or earlier if left in the garage in winter


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    People like you crack me up.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    People like you crack me up.
    ? Degunked. Friggin auto correct. I am giving you my viewpoint. I am giving the reasons why I don’t think that sram is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The shifters froze and I had to spend an hour cleaning the internal mechs and lubing.


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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by arshak View Post
    ? Degunked. Friggin auto correct. I am giving you my viewpoint. I am giving the reasons why I don’t think that sram is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The shifters froze and I had to spend an hour cleaning the internal mechs and lubing.


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    No, I'm talking about the 'horror stories' you've heard. Froze as in temperature? How cold? I've never heard of that happening even in the midwest/northeast during cross season. Shimano shifters get sticky and fail to work constantly...some maintenance is involved w/ bikes, is that surprising? Oh wait...it's horrifying.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    No, I'm talking about the 'horror stories' you've heard. Froze as in temperature? How cold? I've never heard of that happening even in the midwest/northeast during cross season. Shimano shifters get sticky and fail to work constantly...some maintenance is involved w/ bikes, is that surprising? Oh wait...it's horrifying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I'd like to hear about these "horror stories". What happened? Do you know the people who had problems or did you read reviews? Did a shifter actually break?

    As far as getting gunked up, that can happen to Shimano as well.
    I get the routine maintenance part and I don’t have a problem with it. I guess once you get used to excellence in engineering , SRAM doesn’t cut it for me. To give them credit they came up with some innovative designs but the execution and the machines tolerances are sloppy and all over the map. My shifters are finally here after a month and half. Should be getting them today. Will update as to how they work compared to my current XT/XTR setup. One of the interesting things about this group is that the 11 speed cassette slips on to the 9/10 speed body without a hitch. No spacer needed. Will have a better understanding in the next two days as to how it all works together. Or if it even works.


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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by arshak View Post
    I get the routine maintenance part and I don’t have a problem with it. I guess once you get used to excellence in engineering , SRAM doesn’t cut it for me. To give them credit they came up with some innovative designs but the execution and the machines tolerances are sloppy and all over the map. My shifters are finally here after a month and half. Should be getting them today. Will update as to how they work compared to my current XT/XTR setup. One of the interesting things about this group is that the 11 speed cassette slips on to the 9/10 speed body without a hitch. No spacer needed. Will have a better understanding in the next two days as to how it all works together. Or if it even works.


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    Says who? Thousands and thousands of riders use it and have no problems at all. The big 3 all make groups that perform very well. Even Microshift works well. You keep bringing up this 'tolerance' thing but don't provide any actual examples. I'm quite sure that the volume of my experience w/ bicycles in general and SRAM equipped bicycles in particular is orders of magnitude greater than yours. Trust me, I'll be the first guy to hammer a product if it's derserved. In this case it is not. You sound very much like one of those guys that hears people spout unfounded opnions and you trust them implicitly for whatever reason.
    If you want to talk design/engineering problems how about Shimano shifters and their appetite for cables? Ever heard of a SRAM shifter doing that? Me neither.
    What it comes down to is that you don't like that 'feel' of them. That's fine, you can like or not like whatever you want, but don't give me this crap about 'horror stories' and the like.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    If you want to talk design/engineering problems how about Shimano shifters and their appetite for cables? Ever heard of a SRAM shifter doing that? Me neither.
    I can vouch for this. Granted that I love the way Shimano shifters work and feel - when they work. However, I have two bikes with Shimano shifters that like to routinely eat cables. I generally have to replace the rear every 1500-2000 miles and my last replacement was after only 800 miles. Next time this happens, I'm going to try an Aligator 31 cable since they are more flexible. If I don't get more mileage out of it, I'm ready to go to SRAM Force 22.
    "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein.

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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Says who? Thousands and thousands of riders use it and have no problems at all. The big 3 all make groups that perform very well. Even Microshift works well. You keep bringing up this 'tolerance' thing but don't provide any actual examples. I'm quite sure that the volume of my experience w/ bicycles in general and SRAM equipped bicycles in particular is orders of magnitude greater than yours. Trust me, I'll be the first guy to hammer a product if it's derserved. In this case it is not. You sound very much like one of those guys that hears people spout unfounded opnions and you trust them implicitly for whatever reason.
    If you want to talk design/engineering problems how about Shimano shifters and their appetite for cables? Ever heard of a SRAM shifter doing that? Me neither.
    What it comes down to is that you don't like that 'feel' of them. That's fine, you can like or not like whatever you want, but don't give me this crap about 'horror stories' and the like.
    Says me. I may be biased as I have Shimano on all my bikes except the two with SRAM. As to the cables on the Shimano equipped bikes, the only reason I have had to switch out cables is because the cables frayed at the end or I did not do a good job of crimping end caps.

    I got SRAM on one of my bikes in 2013 (Rival 10 speed) and Force in 2015. SRAM Force works better than Rival but I had the annoying problem of my front derailleur cable loosening while in the middle of nowhere on two different occasions.
    The “tolerances crap” is not second hand but my own experience with the friggin’ GXP bottom bracket that requires so much fiddling around to get right. As to Shimano front derailleurs, I haven’t got any new 11 speed or 12 speed experience yet, and maybe I will be *****ing about them as you do but until then, I prefer Shimano. I like Campy too but the replacement cost is prohibitive and the bs about repairable components is just that. BS. Something as simple as a hanger bolt costs the same as 60% of the cost of the whole derailleur or the part is unavailable in the USA. Everything I have written about is my experience with SRAM vs Shimano Comparing 10 speed to 10 speed components. If you think that SRAM is the greatest thing since sliced bread, more power to you.


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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by arshak View Post
    Says me. I may be biased as I have Shimano on all my bikes except the two with SRAM. As to the cables on the Shimano equipped bikes, the only reason I have had to switch out cables is because the cables frayed at the end or I did not do a good job of crimping end caps.

    I got SRAM on one of my bikes in 2013 (Rival 10 speed) and Force in 2015. SRAM Force works better than Rival but I had the annoying problem of my front derailleur cable loosening while in the middle of nowhere on two different occasions.
    The “tolerances crap” is not second hand but my own experience with the friggin’ GXP bottom bracket that requires so much fiddling around to get right. As to Shimano front derailleurs, I haven’t got any new 11 speed or 12 speed experience yet, and maybe I will be *****ing about them as you do but until then, I prefer Shimano. I like Campy too but the replacement cost is prohibitive and the bs about repairable components is just that. BS. Something as simple as a hanger bolt costs the same as 60% of the cost of the whole derailleur or the part is unavailable in the USA. Everything I have written about is my experience with SRAM vs Shimano Comparing 10 speed to 10 speed components. If you think that SRAM is the greatest thing since sliced bread, more power to you.


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    2015 Force is 11 speed, not 10. It might feel very slightly different than 10 speed Rival.
    GXP bottom brackets are hard to install? Never heard that before nor experienced it. Screw the cups in, install the crank. Done. There is no adjusting.
    I never *****ed about Shimano front derailleurs, I just said they were more involved and different than any previous derailleur. They shift very, very well.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by arshak View Post
    Says me. I may be biased as I have Shimano on all my bikes except the two with SRAM. As to the cables on the Shimano equipped bikes, the only reason I have had to switch out cables is because the cables frayed at the end or I did not do a good job of crimping end caps.

    I got SRAM on one of my bikes in 2013 (Rival 10 speed) and Force in 2015. SRAM Force works better than Rival but I had the annoying problem of my front derailleur cable loosening while in the middle of nowhere on two different occasions.
    The “tolerances crap” is not second hand but my own experience with the friggin’ GXP bottom bracket that requires so much fiddling around to get right. As to Shimano front derailleurs, I haven’t got any new 11 speed or 12 speed experience yet, and maybe I will be *****ing about them as you do but until then, I prefer Shimano. I like Campy too but the replacement cost is prohibitive and the bs about repairable components is just that. BS. Something as simple as a hanger bolt costs the same as 60% of the cost of the whole derailleur or the part is unavailable in the USA. Everything I have written about is my experience with SRAM vs Shimano Comparing 10 speed to 10 speed components. If you think that SRAM is the greatest thing since sliced bread, more power to you.
    Nobody here is saying SRAM is the greatest thing since sliced bread. We're just saying it's not the train wreck you make it out to be.

    If you don't have any experience with 11-speed Shimano, that may be why you never had a problem with cable chewing shifters. The Shimano cable chewing problem started with 5700/6700, the first generation where the shift cables go under the bar tape. 5600/6600 did not have this problem. FYI, there is no such thing as 12-speed road Shimano yet, only mountain.
    "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein.

    "With
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    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Nobody here is saying SRAM is the greatest thing since sliced bread. We're just saying it's not the train wreck you make it out to be.

    If you don't have any experience with 11-speed Shimano, that may be why you never had a problem with cable chewing shifters. The Shimano cable chewing problem started with 5700/6700, the first generation where the shift cables go under the bar tape. 5600/6600 did not have this problem. FYI, there is no such thing as 12-speed road Shimano yet, only mountain.
    The older Shimano STI levers did actually eat cables. So did the older Campy Ergo shifters...they'd stab you in the thumb when the fraying started.
    #promechaniclife

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    The older Shimano STI levers did actually eat cables. So did the older Campy Ergo shifters...they'd stab you in the thumb when the fraying started.
    Well that Trek I showed you has the 5600 Flight Deck shifters and didn't chew till around 6000 miles. I can tolerate that as normal maintenance. 1500-2000 miles is premature which is what I'm dealing with now with the newer shifters. 6000 is acceptable. 1500 is not acceptable. But that's just my humble opinion.
    "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein.

    "With
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    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  25. #50
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    Update: Finally got my bike switched out to the CRX group. Between keeping an eye on my kid who is virtually going to school, I haven’t had much time to work on the bike. Then my hydraulic brakes started acting up and finally had a friend of mine troubleshoot them today.
    Will ride the bike tomorrow. And give my unscientific opinion about the group.


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