Shimano shifter eats another rear cable..............
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  1. #1
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    Shimano shifter eats another rear cable..............

    ......but this one only lasted 800 miles!!! See pic below. Yep, shifting became erratic. Checked under hood and yep, frayed cable. Spent 2 hours changing the cable. This is only the second time I've replaced an internally run cable myself, so I presume I'll eventually get faster.

    This is becoming a real PITA - especially on a bike with internally run cables. This should not happen. I'm really starting to think about going to SRAM Force or Campy Chorus although IIRC, Campy would necessitate replacing all my cassette carriers on my wheelsets, correct?

    Thoughts anybody? No, please don't tell me to go to e-shifting, that isn't happening. I'm only interested in mechanical systems.

    Thanks!

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    ......but this one only lasted 800 miles!!! See pic below. Yep, shifting became erratic. Checked under hood and yep, frayed cable. Spent 2 hours changing the cable. This is only the second time I've replaced an internally run cable myself, so I presume I'll eventually get faster.

    This is becoming a real PITA - especially on a bike with internally run cables. This should not happen. I'm really starting to think about going to SRAM Force or Campy Chorus although IIRC, Campy would necessitate replacing all my cassette carriers on my wheelsets, correct?

    Thoughts anybody? No, please don't tell me to go to e-shifting, that isn't happening. I'm only interested in mechanical systems.

    Thanks!

    What cable did you use?

  3. #3
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    I've never had this happen, so I'm not really sure what to suggest, other than checking to make sure your cables are moving freely within the housings and maybe a little teflon grease on the cable guide inside the leverhood.

    I'll probably get roasted for this, but If I had that problem, and it were bad enough to make me want to change components, I would be looking at Di2, and not Campy, and especially not SRAM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    What cable did you use?
    I always use Shimano cables. I think it's a design problem with Shimano shifters since others I know have this problem too. I usually get about 2000 miles before this happens. The last one before this lasted only 1500 miles and this one lasted only 800 miles.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    I've never had this happen, so I'm not really sure what to suggest, other than checking to make sure your cables are moving freely within the housings and maybe a little teflon grease on the cable guide inside the leverhood.

    I'll probably get roasted for this, but If I had that problem, and it were bad enough to make me want to change components, I would be looking at Di2, and not Campy, and especially not SRAM.
    I've seen it and replaced cables more times than I can count. If it were me and I wanted to do as Lombard posted and stay mechanical I'd definitely go w/ SRAM. If I were going electronic I'd also definitely go w/ SRAM. I've had too many weird, hard to diagnose Di2 problems over the years. I've had much more good luck w/ SRAM than w/ Shimano and if something does go wrong their CS is fantastic. Shimano's is getting much better as well over the last few years but the boys in Chicago set the standard.

    @Lombard...how old are the shifters? Maybe have a shop try to warranty it/them w/ Shimano? 800mi is unacceptable.
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  6. #6
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    @Lombard, PM me your address and I'll mail you a meter of cable housing liner to user for swapping cables. It makes changing internally routed cables super easy. Had to purchase 30m worth, so have some extra...

    In this video, see from ~0:50 to ~1:20:
    Last edited by jetdog9; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:00 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    I've seen it and replaced cables more times than I can count. If it were me and I wanted to do as Lombard posted and stay mechanical I'd definitely go w/ SRAM. If I were going electronic I'd also definitely go w/ SRAM. I've had too many weird, hard to diagnose Di2 problems over the years. I've had much more good luck w/ SRAM than w/ Shimano and if something does go wrong their CS is fantastic. Shimano's is getting much better as well over the last few years but the boys in Chicago set the standard.

    @Lombard...how old are the shifters? Maybe have a shop try to warranty it/them w/ Shimano? 800mi is unacceptable.
    Thanks CX! I was hoping you would chime in. So you like SRAM better than Campy? It looks like SRAM is BB30 compatible which is what I have. Would I be able to keep my Ultegra brake calipers or is the pull ratio different?

    My shifters are about 6,800 miles old. I think I had the groupset installed in either 2015 or 2016 so 4 or 5 years old. Even with my old 5700 105 shifters, cable lasted only 2000 miles. The current Ultegra 6800 usually goes through a rear cable every 2000 miles. This one at 800 miles was a real nasty surprise!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    ......but this one only lasted 800 miles!!!
    I've gone through one under 600 miles with my former Shimano 10 speed 105 rear shifter. I switched to Campy.

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    Wow, that's ridiculous. Back when I was using cable shifting I could get 6000 or more miles out of a rear easily with their polymer coated cables and the cable lube. What kind of Shimano Cables are you using and when is the last time you replaced the housing and have you tried using the special cable lube from Shimano? There's something seriously wrong to have cable problems in 800 miles unless you are shifting continuously.
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  10. #10
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdog9 View Post
    In this video, see from ~0:50 to ~1:20:
    This this this!!!
    Using this method, internal cables are just as easy as external cables to replace.

    Of course, I haven't had to replace a di2 shift cable in 30,000 mi.
    (3 bikes and 6 derailleurs and haven't had to adjust a derailleur either)

    I'd never own a mechanical shift bike again.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdog9 View Post
    @Lombard, PM me your address and I'll mail you a meter of cable housing liner to user for swapping cables. It makes changing internally routed cables super easy. Had to purchase 30m worth, so have some extra...

    In this video, see from ~0:50 to ~1:20:
    Thanks for the offer, Jetdog! I do use this method with the cable housing liners. However, I struggled getting it all the way through the frame. The cable guide under the BB on my bike has very tiny holes. And then there are my increasingly aging eyes which aren't great at small close items anymore - I need a +3.5 to see anything up close! So that is why it took me 2 hours. As I said, if I do this enough, the time it takes will probably decrease - especially if I'm doing it every 800 miles!
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Wow, that's ridiculous. Back when I was using cable shifting I could get 6000 or more miles out of a rear easily with their polymer coated cables and the cable lube. What kind of Shimano Cables are you using and when is the last time you replaced the housing and have you tried using the special cable lube from Shimano? There's something seriously wrong to have cable problems in 800 miles unless you are shifting continuously.
    I believe the last ones were just plain Shimano stainless steel cables. I have used PTFE cables in the past, so maybe that's why I got more miles out of them. I don't think housings are an issue as the cable only frays at the shifter and nowhere else. And the shifting is A+ perfect.....that is until the cable frays inside the shifter - that is my warning sign! I do use the Shimano cable lube when I change a cable.

    I believe this problem started with the Shimano generation 5700/5700/7900 where the cables are under the bar tape. I believe this necessitated a tighter turn inside the shifter. I had a bike with 5600 shifters and never a cable fray problem in over 6000 miles!
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    I've gone through one under 600 miles with my former Shimano 10 speed 105 rear shifter. I switched to Campy.
    The newer Campy Chorus set is certainly enticing with the 12 speed and it even has a 48/32 crankset option and 11-34 cassette option. Not sure I like the idea of carbon crank arms though. And of course as I said before, wouldn't that necessitate changing the cassette carrier on my wheelsets?
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  14. #14
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    If it's happening in the same location, then there is obviously a bur left over from manufacture inside the shifter mechanism. What you need is a good light source, a magnifying glass, and a set of small files. It's in there somewhere, and just installing another cable will just result in another failure.
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  15. #15
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    You can try the Alligator 31 strand polished cables. They're more flexible and are supposed to last longer.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    You can try the Alligator 31 strand polished cables. They're more flexible and are supposed to last longer.
    You mean these?

    https://fairwheelbikes.com/alligator...-strand-cable/

    I have to wonder if "standard" shifter cables are 19 strands and these are 31, that means the individual strands are thinner.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I have to wonder if "standard" shifter cables are 19 strands and these are 31, that means the individual strands are thinner.
    More strands means the individual strands are thinner. The cable is the same overall diameter.

    Cables with more strands are stronger and more flexible.

    For instance,
    3/16" dia. 6 × 19—IWRC Core wire rope has a 750lb capacity and 6-3/8" bend diameter
    3/16" dia. 6 × 37—IWRC Core wire rope has a 800lb capacity and 4-7/8" bend diameter
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    More strands means the individual strands are thinner. The cable is the same overall diameter.

    Cables with more strands are stronger and more flexible.

    For instance,
    3/16" dia. 6 × 19—IWRC Core wire rope has a 750lb capacity and 6-3/8" bend diameter
    3/16" dia. 6 × 37—IWRC Core wire rope has a 800lb capacity and 4-7/8" bend diameter
    Hmmm. So these Aligator 31 cables may be worth trying before I spend $900 or so on a new groupo. What do I have to lose other than $8 + shipping per cable? I may try some high end Jagwire cables as well although those are $29 per cable!
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Hmmm. So these Aligator 31 cables may be worth trying
    I would definitely try them. They're polished too so should slide nice. $8 is a steal.

    Higher strand cables are almost always preferred. The only reason to use lower strand cables is they're cheaper to make (so long as you don't need a tight bend). Those two I gave for reference, the 37 strand cable is 50% ($1/ft) more expensive. Adds up if you're using lots of cable like a winch.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    I would definitely try them. They're polished too so should slide nice. $8 is a steal.

    Higher strand cables are almost always preferred. The only reason to use lower strand cables is they're cheaper to make (so long as you don't need a tight bend). Those two I gave for reference, the 37 strand cable is 50% ($1/ft) more expensive. Adds up if you're using lots of cable like a winch.
    A tight bend like inside a Shimano shifter!

    37 strand? I didn't see those.
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  21. #21
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    37 strand? I didn't see those.
    Those were industrial cables I gave for reference, not bike cables. But the physics remains the same.
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  22. #22
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    The newer Campy Chorus set is certainly enticing with the 12 speed and it even has a 48/32 crankset option and 11-34 cassette option. Not sure I like the idea of carbon crank arms though. And of course as I said before, wouldn't that necessitate changing the cassette carrier on my wheelsets?
    Since you're 11 speed I'd definitely try your wheels/existing cassettes first, they'll probably work fine. Campy vs SRAM? I guess I'm just kinda over Campy. It's fine but I'm just not into it. I've had great experience w/ SRAM both in the shop and w/ the team (fully SRAM/Zipp sponsored) so I'm partial to it. For whatever reason I equate Campy to Rolex and SRAM to Omega. Same generally goes for the users.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bvber View Post
    I've gone through one under 600 miles with my former Shimano 10 speed 105 rear shifter. I switched to Campy.
    It will obviously depend on how much you shift, but my last Campy Chorus rear cable had to be replaced after 28,000 miles.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Since you're 11 speed I'd definitely try your wheels/existing cassettes first, they'll probably work fine. Campy vs SRAM? I guess I'm just kinda over Campy. It's fine but I'm just not into it. I've had great experience w/ SRAM both in the shop and w/ the team (fully SRAM/Zipp sponsored) so I'm partial to it. For whatever reason I equate Campy to Rolex and SRAM to Omega. Same generally goes for the users.
    Existing cassettes, really? How about existing crankset? That would be nice if I could do that - only have to replace shifters and derailleurs!

    Point taken about going to 12-speed would be more hassle. I don't know if cassette carrier width is wider or if the cogs are just thinner or a combo of both.

    If Campy is Rolex and SRAM is Omega what is Shimano, Timex? They do take a lickin' and keep on tickin'. The cable eating shifter is really the only sore spot on an otherwise excellent groupo.

    That being said, I did recently convert an older mountain bike to a 9-speed SRAM X9/X7 mix and the shifting there is superb! I previously had frustrating ghost shifting on a Shimano Deore I could not track down even after chain, cassette, rear derailleur, cable and housing replacements.
    Last edited by Lombard; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:38 AM.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    It will obviously depend on how much you shift, but my last Campy Chorus rear cable had to be replaced after 28,000 miles.
    That sure is impressive. Since I ride about 3K miles a year and do it on a combination of different bikes, 28,000 miles on one bike would take awhile!

    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Those were industrial cables I gave for reference, not bike cables. But the physics remains the same.
    Understood.

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