• 07-16-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Stopping heel rub wear on crank arm
    I get some heel rub wear on my crank arm. I don't notice it happening (I think it's only when I stand up because I sort of fold in my ankles when standing), am very comfortable with my cleat setting so would prefer to not monkey around and mess with success and fix it with cleat position.

    Any suggestions for something to put on my crank arm to prevent what is now just a blemish from turning into a gouge with further wear?

    I don't really care about looks per se but something less ghetto that duct tape would be nice.

    How about clear nail polish? Or maybe cut up one of those clear chain stay protectors and stick that on there?

    I'd be interested to hear what was used if any of you have successfully guarded there crank from heel rub wear.

    It's an alloy crank. One is DA and the other Ultegra.

    thank you.
  • 07-16-2019
    tlg
    Helicopter tape is what you're looking for. Google it. Type it in amazon.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DA7M-Cscn_0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    Also most auto parts stores sell paint protection film. Which is essentially the same thing.
  • 07-16-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Cool thank you. Sounds perfect.

    per google: "It was designed to protect helicopter rotors and the leading edges of airplane wings"

    A light rub from leather with my pedaling will obviously be no issue then.
  • 07-16-2019
    tlg
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    A light rub from leather with my pedaling will obviously be no issue then.

    Nope no issue. The stuff is pretty thick and durable. And if it does wear, peel it off and re-apply
  • 07-16-2019
    sasquatch16
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Nope no issue. The stuff is pretty thick and durable. And if it does wear, peel it off and re-apply

    Use it for the same reason. Works great. Wish I put it on before wearing of the Dura on my right crank:(
  • 07-16-2019
    Srode
    I would adjust your cleats so they can't rub, it's really easy to do.
  • 07-17-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    I would adjust your cleats so they can't rub, it's really easy to do.

    That's what I would do, but he said he doesn't want to mess with his cleat position is it works for him (other than rubbing his crank arms).
  • 07-17-2019
    Srode
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    That's what I would do, but he said he doesn't want to mess with his cleat position is it works for him (other than rubbing his crank arms).

    Yeah, I read that but really don't understand. It's not going to effect his fit on the bike, his heal is going in any closer than the crank arms anyway. Just need to mark their position so they don't get move front or back, just change the angle not move them out.
  • 07-17-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Yeah, I read that but really don't understand. It's not going to effect his fit on the bike, his heal is going in any closer than the crank arms anyway. Just need to mark their position so they don't get move front or back, just change the angle not move them out.

    Hmmm. Changing the angle won't necessarily solve this problem. If there is float, your foot will just turn at the angle that feels most natural. If little to no float, it may create knee problems.

    I am pigeon toed and use SPD's. If the cleats are adjusted straight, they make an annoying squeaking noise.

    If Jay is getting heel rub, he is most likely duck footed.

    If I were to make any adjustments, I would move the cleat sideways a bit, but not mess with the angle.
  • 07-17-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Yeah, I read that but really don't understand. It's not going to effect his fit on the bike, his heal is going in any closer than the crank arms anyway. Just need to mark their position so they don't get move front or back, just change the angle not move them out.

    Fit on the bike is not the issue. Moving cleats will either change where float starts and ends (by moving angle) or where my leg is above the pedal (by moving side to side). My knees are such that I probably couldn't play 5 min. of basketball, but I can ride about 10,000 miles a year without any issues as set up now so I am not going to tinker with cleat position to fix something that is not a problem (other than potentially wearing a gouge into the crank arm eventually).

    Edit to add something I just remembered. When I first started cycling about 10 years ago with cleats I set them up straight so as not to accommodate for my natural tendency to pedal duck footed. In other words I've already tried what would need to be done moving cleats to fix the rub. Let's just say there's a reason I changed from a position with no heal rub and I ain't going back to that cleat position.
  • 07-17-2019
    duriel
    FUNCTION over form..... bend your crank arm out of the way!

    Perhaps going to pedals with more offset, Q factor?, may be a solution too.
  • 07-17-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sasquatch16 View Post
    Use it for the same reason. Works great. Wish I put it on before wearing of the Dura on my right crank:(

    Thanks for the verification.

    I borrowed some nail polish from a lady friend and put that on and will see how long/well that works just for the heck of it but definitely plan to get some helicopter tape for long term

    Now that I think of it that stuff will be very useful to have on hand for other reasons too. Chain stay protection, where cable housings rub on paint and probably some non-cycling related thing where that would be good are bound to pop up eventually.
    Currently using electrical tape to prevent cable housing from rubbing paint on on the head tube and chain stay protector on one bike is pretty chewed up so I'm definitely sold on a getting a roll of the stuff.
  • 07-17-2019
    Srode
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Fit on the bike is not the issue. Moving cleats will either change where float starts and ends (by moving angle) or where my leg is above the pedal (by moving side to side). My knees are such that I probably couldn't play 5 min. of basketball, but I can ride about 10,000 miles a year without any issues as set up now so I am not going to tinker with cleat position to fix something that is not a problem (other than potentially wearing a gouge into the crank arm eventually).

    Edit to add something I just remembered. When I first started cycling about 10 years ago with cleats I set them up straight so as not to accommodate for my natural tendency to pedal duck footed. In other words I've already tried what would need to be done moving cleats to fix the rub. Let's just say there's a reason I changed from a position with no heal rub and I ain't going back to that cleat position.

    If it bothered you before it probably will again. I just don't understand it, but don't need to. Seems if you adjust the cleat so the float heal in starts just missing the crank arm, it shouldn't change anything because your heal isn't going in any further than that anyway with the crank arm in the way. The alternative would be move the cleats inward on your shoe to keep them further from the crank arm and retain the same float angle range you have for the non-crank arm portion of your pedal stroke.
  • 07-17-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    If it bothered you before it probably will again. I just don't understand it, but don't need to. Seems if you adjust the cleat so the float heal in starts just missing the crank arm, it shouldn't change anything because your heal isn't going in any further than that anyway with the crank arm in the way. The alternative would be move the cleats inward on your shoe to keep them further from the crank arm and retain the same float angle range you have for the non-crank arm portion of your pedal stroke.

    Changing where my heel stops rotating inward is changing something. I can't understand how that could be viewed as not changing anything but whatever. That also changes where it stops rotating outward but I never hit that limit so kinda n/a.

    Do you care about cleat position at all or do you just slap them on where ever the happen to land. If the former I think you must understand how moving cleats is changing something.
  • 07-17-2019
    tlg
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Now that I think of it that stuff will be very useful to have on hand for other reasons too. Chain stay protection, where cable housings rub on paint .

    Definitely. I wrap my entire chain stay with it. Much better than those little stick on ones that never wrap all the way around and always look greasy on the edges. Very easy to clean.

    I also put it on my down tube. If you ever ride after a rain and get worm guts splattered on your down tube, those bastards are a b!tch to scrub off when dried up.
  • 07-17-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    If Jay is getting heel rub, he is most likely duck footed.


    I'm definitely somewhat duckfooted. I think the word to describe what happens when I stand to pedal is "pronation" and I think that's a factor too.
    I said heel rub to keep it simple but it's actually a spot on my shoe slightly in front of the actual heel that's hitting.

    As an aside. I think Shimano cranks stick out further in that area (I only get it one drive side) than average and it's a fairly common thing for people to experience what I do with them without being radically duckfooted.
  • 07-17-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Fit on the bike is not the issue. Moving cleats will either change where float starts and ends (by moving angle) or where my leg is above the pedal (by moving side to side). My knees are such that I probably couldn't play 5 min. of basketball, but I can ride about 10,000 miles a year without any issues as set up now so I am not going to tinker with cleat position to fix something that is not a problem (other than potentially wearing a gouge into the crank arm eventually).

    Wise decision to leave cleat position alone. New crank arms are much cheaper and less painful than new knees.
  • 07-17-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    I also put it on my down tube. If you ever ride after a rain and get worm guts splattered on your down tube, those bastards are a b!tch to scrub off when dried up.


    hahaha......for sure have had that happen. Someone in R & D at a glue company needs to look into worm guts.
  • 07-17-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I'm definitely somewhat duckfooted. I think the word to describe what happens when I stand to pedal is "pronation" and I think that's a factor too.
    I said heel rub to keep it simple but it's actually a spot on my shoe slightly in front of the actual heel that's hitting.

    I have just the opposite issue - supination or being pigeon toed. I obviously don't get crank arm rub, but toe overlap becomes a greater problem.
  • 07-17-2019
    Kerry Irons
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    If it bothered you before it probably will again. I just don't understand it, but don't need to. Seems if you adjust the cleat so the float heal in starts just missing the crank arm, it shouldn't change anything because your heal isn't going in any further than that anyway with the crank arm in the way. The alternative would be move the cleats inward on your shoe to keep them further from the crank arm and retain the same float angle range you have for the non-crank arm portion of your pedal stroke.

    If he injures that back of his foot, how long will it take his heel to heal?
  • 07-17-2019
    JCavilia
    If you don't really care about looks (as you said), you could do what I do: ignore it. It's never going to do any functional harm; your leather shoe will not make a gouge in your aluminum crank arm.
  • 07-17-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JCavilia View Post
    If you don't really care about looks (as you said), you could do what I do: ignore it. It's never going to do any functional harm; your leather shoe will not make a gouge in your aluminum crank arm.

    I can feel a slight indentation on one of them when running my finger over it. So a gouge is in process. And I have seen bikes where there is definitely wear deep enough to be of concern. Basically, your statement is wrong. Sure it will take a very long time at my rate of slight wear but I want to keep these cranks for that long.
  • 07-17-2019
    duriel
    You're never.. NEVER... going to wear the tip of the crank off with your shoe/foot. NEVER!
  • 07-17-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    You're never.. NEVER... going to wear the tip of the crank off with your shoe/foot. NEVER!

    Tip? Heel, not toe. But that's correct, because I am going to put helicopter tape on it. Whether I would ever wear into the arm, which is hollow, enough to weaken it, I do not know and see no reason to find out.
  • 07-17-2019
    tlg
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    You're never.. NEVER... going to wear the tip of the crank off with your shoe/foot. NEVER!

    The 'tip' isn't the concern. The arm is. And yes... it is possible.
    Even if you don't wear through, reducing the material 10% will reduce the strength 10%. Having ultra light hollow crank arms with very thin cross sections, there's not much material to begin with.

    http://i60.tinypic.com/t6tqnq.jpg
  • 07-17-2019
    Srode
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Changing where my heel stops rotating inward is changing something. I can't understand how that could be viewed as not changing anything but whatever. That also changes where it stops rotating outward but I never hit that limit so kinda n/a.

    Do you care about cleat position at all or do you just slap them on where ever the happen to land. If the former I think you must understand how moving cleats is changing something.

    Sure I care about cleat position quite a bit - however please explain how your heel is traveling further inward than your crank arm when obviously your crank arm prevents it from doing that during the highest power portion of your pedal stroke when you have the biggest load on your knees?

    Bike fit changes over time and the body adapts, when's the last time you had a good fit done?
  • 07-17-2019
    Srode
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    If he injures that back of his foot, how long will it take his heel to heal?

    Well Heelll! :) Grammatically challenged I am
  • 07-17-2019
    Srode
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    The 'tip' isn't the concern. The arm is. And yes... it is possible.
    Even if you don't wear through, reducing the material 10% will reduce the strength 10%. Having ultra light hollow crank arms with very thin cross sections, there's not much material to begin with.

    http://i60.tinypic.com/t6tqnq.jpg

    Wowzer!!!!
  • 07-17-2019
    duriel
    How many pairs of shoes did it take to make that hole?
    No one here did that, once in eternity!
  • 07-18-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Sure I care about cleat position quite a bit - however please explain how your heel is traveling further inward than your crank arm when obviously your crank arm prevents it from doing that during the highest power portion of your pedal stroke when you have the biggest load on your knees?

    Bike fit changes over time and the body adapts, when's the last time you had a good fit done?


    Responding so as to not look like I'm ignoring your question but I'm going to have to give up. I can't even imagine what the disconnect might be if you're not understanding how simple heel rub is happening and/or how changing the float limits to prevent it actually is a change.

    "heel is traveling further inward than your crank arm when obviously your crank arm prevents it from doing that" Huh? Rub means rub. I don't think I said or implied I'm magically pedaling 'through' the crank arm.

    Like I said already (in different words) I am not going to fix something that isn't broken and that my otherwise tender knees have been successful with. My last bike fit was when I felt there was room for improvement.
  • 07-18-2019
    Srode
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Responding so as to not look like I'm ignoring your question but I'm going to have to give up. I can't even imagine what the disconnect might be if you're not understanding how simple heel rub is happening and/or how changing the float limits to prevent it actually is a change.

    "heel is traveling further inward than your crank arm when obviously your crank arm prevents it from doing that" Huh? Rub means rub. I don't think I said or implied I'm magically pedaling 'through' the crank arm.

    Like I said already (in different words) I am not going to fix something that isn't broken and that my otherwise tender knees have been successful with. My last bike fit was when I felt there was room for improvement.

    Its hard to imagine moving your cleats so they are creating a gap of a couple millimeters from the heel to the crank would be significant enough to cause problems, but like you said you have to decide for yourself how to correct the problem, just trying to help, not push something you don't want to try.
  • 07-18-2019
    mackgoo
    ? Leave it. It shows you actually ride your bike.
  • 07-18-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Its hard to imagine moving your cleats so they are creating a gap of a couple millimeters from the heel to the crank would be significant enough to cause problems, but like you said you have to decide for yourself how to correct the problem, just trying to help, not push something you don't want to try.

    I recognize and appreciate that you were trying to help.

    It's fair to wonder if it would really matter if I changed my float by whatever would be required to fix the rub. I have tried cleats positioned where there was not heel rub 10ish years ago and it didn't work for me. But that was long ago and I may have been missing by alot whereas like you say I only need to miss by the slightest amount.

    The bottom line is am having no problems with this heel rub (other than the heel rub wear) and slapping some nail polish or tape to address that no problem so I don't see a reason I'd want to take a chance, however light it may be, and tinker with cleat placement that I'm very happy and ache free with.
  • 07-18-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mackgoo View Post
    ? Leave it. It shows you actually ride your bike.

    Why would I care about that?

    The fact it's moving with me on it might already be showing that to anyone it would matter to (people I ride and race with).

    Or do you mean at a store or coffee shop. Are there people out there checking for heel rub and suspecting I got dressed up in spandex and took the bike there with a car if they don't see wear? I can live with it if that's what an absence of wear will say to them.

    Or do you mean at home? Pretty sure anyone who comes into my apartment knows I ride my bikes. I suppose a repair man or some dude like that wouldn't know. I can't imagine he'd care nor I about if my bike looks used or not to them.
  • 07-18-2019
    velodog
    Beausage.

    Honest wear is a thing of beauty, not to be confused with abuse.
  • 07-19-2019
    GKSki
    I think what some have already said and I would say is that you wouldn't be changing your cleat angle or your fore/aft cleat position, rather move the cleat inboard so that the shoe's heel has to move somewhat away from the crank as the shoe does.

    Consider this. If your shoe is clipping the crank every revolution or most revolutions, perhaps just when standing, then you are not putting forth your most efficient stroke. You may even realize an improvement in performance if the adjustment can stop you from brushing e crank.
  • 07-19-2019
    duriel
    I don't think these guys know what duck toed means, really!
  • 07-20-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GKSki View Post
    I think what some have already said and I would say is that you wouldn't be changing your cleat angle or your fore/aft cleat position, rather move the cleat inboard so that the shoe's heel has to move somewhat away from the crank as the shoe does.

    Consider this. If your shoe is clipping the crank every revolution or most revolutions, perhaps just when standing, then you are not putting forth your most efficient stroke. You may even realize an improvement in performance if the adjustment can stop you from brushing e crank.

    That's effectively changing q-factor, widening my stance, or however you want to phrase it it's a change. I would have thought someone with otherwise tender knees not having any issues with current cleat position not wanting to move them would be easily understandable but whatever.

    I may not be correct but I'm pretty sure I have a better idea of my most efficient pedal stroke as compared to a stranger on the internet who's never seen me and I believe it is how I'm set up now. (I seriously doubt the friction from brushing the crank is impacting efficiency if that's what you mean)
  • 07-20-2019
    Lombard
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    I don't think these guys know what duck toed means, really!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronation_of_the_foot

    Just in case reading isn't their thing, a picture is worth 1,000 words:
  • 07-20-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    I don't think these guys know what duck toed means, really!

    And another doesn't know the difference between a toes and feet.
  • 07-20-2019
    velodog
    Two options, helicopter tape or don't worry about it. Anything else means some sort of change to your position, but you, and your knees, already know that.
  • 07-20-2019
    Jay Strongbow
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    Two options, helicopter tape or don't worry about it. Anything else means some sort of change to your position, but you, and your knees, already know that.

    I'm glad someone gets it.
  • 07-20-2019
    Lombard
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    Two options, helicopter tape or don't worry about it. Anything else means some sort of change to your position, but you, and your knees, already know that.

    Bingo!

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    My knees are such that I probably couldn't play 5 min. of basketball, but I can ride about 10,000 miles a year without any issues as set up now ........

    This says DO NOT TOUCH THAT CLEAT POSITION! As I said before, new crank arms are way cheaper than new knees. Some here still don't get it. Oh well.
  • 07-20-2019
    mackgoo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    I'm glad someone gets it.

    Tape on my crank would bother me more than some rub.