Trouble removing stuck headset
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  1. #1
    Sol
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    Trouble removing stuck headset

    Before I do anything stupid (first time doing this) what would be the best way to remove a stuck headset?

    I did manage to get the bottom bearing out, but the cup is still stuck in the frame.

    On the top, both the bearing and cup are stuck.

    I did put some oil and now I am waiting to do its job before I start tapping with a hammer and a blunt object.



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  2. #2
    tlg
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    Did you use penetrating oil or just oil? Get some penetrating oil in there and let is soak a while.
    Try warming it up with a hair dryer (on low). If that doesn't work, after warming it up, put a ziplock with water and crushed ice inside the cup. The heat will expand the frame and the cold will shrink the cup.
    I've had success getting stuck BB's out this way.

    Looking at the picture that headset is neglected and rusted. If the cup was put in the frame without grease, it could be corroded together.
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  3. #3
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    Just what "blunt object" are you referring to? Are you using a cup remover?

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by nova_rider; 2 Weeks Ago at 12:32 PM.

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  5. #5
    Sol
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Did you use penetrating oil or just oil? Get some penetrating oil in there and let is soak a while.
    Try warming it up with a hair dryer (on low). If that doesn't work, after warming it up, put a ziplock with water and crushed ice inside the cup. The heat will expand the frame and the cold will shrink the cup.
    I've had success getting stuck BB's out this way.


    Looking at the picture that headset is neglected and rusted. If the cup was put in the frame without grease, it could be corroded together.

    I used penetrating oil. Will let it soak until tomorrow and then repeat the process for the bottom cup.


    So if the fan only wont work, heat from outside and ziplock inside at the same time?


    Heh, BB is next, I hope it is in better shape. I bought the bike used a couple of months ago, and I decided to do a full service since I had to disassemble the shifters.


    Fingers crossed.




    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    Just what "blunt object" are you referring to? Are you using a cup remover?


    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

    I will just use a piece of spruce and gently tap around to release it gradually.


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    Last edited by Sol; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:36 PM.

  6. #6
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    I will just use a piece of spruce and gently tap around to release it gradually.
    The problem with that is you probably need to bang the crap out of it to get it out. But hitting it on just one edge will cock the cup making it even harder to get out.
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    Just go to HD and get a pipe, cut it just like the one posted, spread it and hit on it with a hammer. If you have tools, if not, just get that one for $34. It will be worth it.
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  8. #8
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    Just go to HD and get a pipe, cut it just like the one posted, spread it and hit on it with a hammer. If you have tools, if not, just get that one for $34. It will be worth it.
    Yes, but not just a pipe. You're not gonna wanna slit steel pipe.
    Electrical conduit can work. Or copper pipe.

    But you can get a non-Park tool for $18.
    https://www.amazon.com/CyclingDeal-B.../dp/B005KWRIJO
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    Electrical conduit is steel. But you are correct, don't try that with cast or black steel pipe (generally anything with threads), those are way to brittle.
    Just saves several days waiting for delivery.
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  10. #10
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    Electrical conduit is steel. But you are correct, don't try that with cast or black steel pipe (generally anything with threads), those are way to brittle.
    Conduit is steel but the wall thickness is a bit under 1/16". Steel pipe is over 1/8" thick.

    Steel pipe is not cast. It's welded or cold drawn. It's not brittle at all and is very ductile. Which is why it's able to be bent, formed, and coiled.
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  11. #11
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    Have u ever bent black steel threaded pipe? ... good luck with that!
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  12. #12
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    I suggest investing in the right tool for the job... others have posted the Park version, here's another option that's just a tiny bit cheaper: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/u...et-cup-remover

    Going in the other direction... you'll want to have access to a proper press tool to put the new headset cups in. Hammering in new one is... not advised.

    The press tools can get quite a bit more expensive than the removal tool... but ultimately a good tool to have if you're going to do your own work, including messing with headsets and press fit BBs.

    I have this one, have not used it a ton but it has been fine (note, only used it for BB so far but it should work for headset as long as your steerer tube isn't too long): https://www.performancebike.com/whee...ress-7/p544885

    BTW, I've read the thread a couple times now, sorry if this is obvious to you already but just to make sure... you aren't assuming that these cups should ever be loose and that by lubricating you think you can just pull them out with your fingers once the oil penetrates and you try to loosen by tapping around the tube with a piece of wood, right?

    Because that's not the case... these are press fit parts that are meant to be snug. To get them out, you are supposed to pound them out from the other side of the tube using a spreader / cup removal tool. If you just use something random such as a screwdriver, you stand a fair chance of damaging the headset parts (not a big deal if you are replacing) but also a chance of hurting the frame. To put the new one in, you are supposed to use a press tool to evenly push them in.

    Lastly, if investing in the tools on this one isn't worth it, you might just want to take it to the shop. Likely they can do both the headset and BB removal/install for less than the price of the necessary tools. Depending on the shop and how busy they are, could be done while you wait.
    Last edited by jetdog9; 2 Weeks Ago at 11:03 AM.

  13. #13
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    Have u ever bent black steel threaded pipe? ... good luck with that!
    Oh gosh. My company does it literally every single day. They've been doing this in constitution, heat exchangers, & plumbing for decades.
    Black pipe is not brittle.






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  14. #14
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetdog9 View Post
    Going in the other direction... you'll want to have access to a proper press tool to put the new headset cups in. Hammering in new one is... not advised.
    And put a nice healthy coat of grease on them so they don't corrode for next time.
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  15. #15
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    TLG, those 3 tools are way more expensive than a parktool head banger!
    If you got those, you don't need my help!
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    Have u ever bent black steel threaded pipe? ... good luck with that!
    Yes! It bends quite nicely with a pipe bender. It doesn't really matter if it's threaded or not.

  17. #17
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    If you have access to a pipe bender, then use the black steel pipe with or without threads, if you don't have a pipe bender, let's see you do it! I knew you can do it, but he isn't. I can bend a 12" I beam, doesn't mean I have a I beam bender in the garage. da!
    We were talking about taking a headset out by a knob, what the hell is he doing with a 200# 2" pipe bender? please do tell.
    End of discussion.
    I could go to the moon if I had a BA rocket, but I don't, .... so I'll just ride around the roads here in town, ok? Are you going to argue that I can go to the moon?
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Before I do anything stupid ...
    Everyone here has stated the obvious, including the proper tools, all of which I have and have used over 3 decades.

    Write me at [email protected]. Go to a Local Bike Store and I'll pay to have it removed properly.

    Honestly.

    Safety 3rd.

    Just do it.

  19. #19
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    IWe were talking about taking a headset out by a knob, what the hell is he doing with a 200# 2" pipe bender? please do tell.
    You were talking about steel pipe being brittle. Which it absolutely is not, supported by the fact that it is easily, and commonly bent. If it were brittle, it would crack.

    I can bend a 12" I beam
    Correct... because it's not brittle.

    don't try that with cast or black steel pipe (generally anything with threads), those are way to brittle.
    End of discussion
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    ..........guess I should have used 'strong'. .... fire me!
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  21. #21
    Sol
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    Well, after I let it soak in oil, the top bearing went out without complaining.

    For now I just restored the bearings (changed the ball bearings and cleaned everything completely). The races were still fine, the balls were not.

    After I order a new headset I will just bring the frame to a local shop and let them do the work. Thank you, no need to pay for it, was just tinkering with the idea to do it myself. I do have a diy press tool, but wont risk it.

    Anyhow. Any suggestion on a good headset bearings to replace the FSA ZS4? Looking for something that is not just a rebranded chinese bearing. The balls on the top bearing were completely corroded.
    Last edited by Sol; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:54 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Steel pipe is over 1/8" thick.
    Depends on what schedule it is. Schedule 10 pipe is pretty thin. Schedule 80 is hell for stout.

  23. #23
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Depends on what schedule it is. Schedule 10 pipe is pretty thin. Schedule 80 is hell for stout.
    Yea but Home Depot only sells Sch 40 which is what we were talking about.

    In fact most places don't carry Sch 10 under 2 NPT. Can't find it at any of my steel suppliers. Of course if you were to find it, you'd have to buy a 12' length making it far more expensive than the Park Tool
    Last edited by tlg; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:44 AM.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Before I do anything stupid (first time doing this) what would be the best way to remove a stuck headset?

    I did manage to get the bottom bearing out, but the cup is still stuck in the frame.

    On the top, both the bearing and cup are stuck.

    I did put some oil and now I am waiting to do its job before I start tapping with a hammer and a blunt object.



    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    Just go to HD and get a pipe, cut it just like the one posted, spread it and hit on it with a hammer. If you have tools, if not, just get that one for $34. It will be worth it.
    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Yes, but not just a pipe. You're not gonna wanna slit steel pipe.
    Electrical conduit can work. Or copper pipe.

    But you can get a non-Park tool for $18.
    https://www.amazon.com/CyclingDeal-B.../dp/B005KWRIJO
    Or you could measure the inside diameter of the head tube and buy a small piece of PVC pipe and a rubber mallet from your local HD.
    Last edited by ROAD&DIRT; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:13 AM.
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  25. #25
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROAD&DIRT View Post
    Or you could measure the inside diameter of the head tube and but a small piece of PVC pipe and a rubber mallet from your local HD.
    Not inside diameter of the head tube. Inside diameter of the cups. You gotta fit it through the cup.
    But you can't slit PVC and flare it out like the park tool, it won't stay flared. So essentially you got a plastic stick. Which is no different than "using a piece of spruce to gently tap around to release it"
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