• 01-25-2008
    Erotomaniac
    Ultegra 10speed chain question
    I just upgraded to a 10speed ultegra group and the chain it comes with as the Ultegra 10-Speed Chain 9CN-6600. which wippermann quick release link should I get for it? Or is there another recommendation for an easy chain chain removal setup.

    Im not a racer but am an avid rider and I want a no fuss way of taking the chain off for easy cleaning. I previously used a sram 9spd chain with my 9spd system and LOVED the sram chain (pc99 Ithink it was).

    I also need a new chain tool, which one do you recommend?
  • 01-25-2008
    Spunout
    The narrow whipperman, it has '10-S1' stamped on it. I have luck with the large Park chain tool will campy ultra-narrow and shimano 10s chains.
  • 01-25-2008
    CleavesF
    Yeah, shimano chains suck balls for taking them off...

    "here you go, buy more chain rivets! 10 bucks for 5! Oh the 9spd aren't the same ones are the 10 spd! 10 bucks!"

    Shimano chains are nice on the drivetrain, horrible for maintenance.

    But then again their competitors are absolutely right for quick snap off and on. SRAM hasn't wronged me on this design... and we can only wait for shimano to adopt... ditto for their headsets lol.
  • 01-25-2008
    Dinosaur
    That Connex Shimano link is only good for Wipperman/Shimano chains (we have been through this before). No need to pull off your chain for cleaning.
  • 01-25-2008
    C-40
    No!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Spunout
    The narrow whipperman, it has '10-S1' stamped on it. I have luck with the large Park chain tool will campy ultra-narrow and shimano 10s chains.

    I've posted this many times. The 10S1 is too narrow to provide the proer clearance with the inner plates of a Shimano 10 chain. The link that fits properly is either the Campy 10 version of the wipperman link, or a KMC missing link. Forster also makes a superlink that fits either a Shimano 10 or the original (wider) Campy 10 chain.

    The 10S1 link is apropriate for a wipperman chain, a Campy UN chain, or a SRAM chain.
  • 01-25-2008
    Erotomaniac
    Ok, so forget about the wippermann shimano link? Ill get the wipper campy one then.

    This one, The 6.2mm right? I just want to make sure im getting the right one.

    http://www.biketiresdirect.com/produ...il.asp?p=WIL1S

    Thanks for the advice so far. How do you clean your chains without removing them? I just take mine off shake it around in a jar of mineral spirits, dry it off and relube it. Then I dip a magnet in the jar to suck up all the metal dust and reuse it.
  • 01-25-2008
    C-40
    yes..
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Erotomaniac
    Ok, so forget about the wippermann shimano link? Ill get the wipper campy one then.

    This one, The 6.2mm right? I just want to make sure im getting the right one.

    http://www.biketiresdirect.com/produ...il.asp?p=WIL1S

    Thanks for the advice so far. How do you clean your chains without removing them? I just take mine off shake it around in a jar of mineral spirits, dry it off and relube it. Then I dip a magnet in the jar to suck up all the metal dust and reuse it.

    That's the right link for a Shimano chain. I also recommend that Shimano users try a Campy UN chain when they get the opportunity. They will last longer and the 10S1 link will fit.

    As for cleaning the chain on the bike, some people use those special chain cleaning devices and others don't really perform any special cleaning, other than frequent wiping and frequent lubing. I tend to apply homebrew after nearly every ride, so my chains rarely need cleaning, but if the chain does get too dirty, I've brushed on mineral spirits and even used a heavy spray application of WD-40 to clean the chain.
  • 01-25-2008
    Dinosaur
    Chain cleaning
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Erotomaniac
    Ok, so forget about the wippermann shimano link? Ill get the wipper campy one then.

    This one, The 6.2mm right? I just want to make sure im getting the right one.

    http://www.biketiresdirect.com/produ...il.asp?p=WIL1S

    Thanks for the advice so far. How do you clean your chains without removing them? I just take mine off shake it around in a jar of mineral spirits, dry it off and relube it. Then I dip a magnet in the jar to suck up all the metal dust and reuse it.

    I use homebrew (3 parts odorless mineral spirits to 1 part 30w motor oil). I put solution in an old TriFlow bottle, wipe down my chain after each ride, put a small drop of lube on each roller, run the crank backwards a couple of times wiping off the excess lube. If you do this after each ride you won't have to pull your chain off. Per Lennard Zinn, bike maintenance guru...saves the trouble of pulling it off..you just have to do it after every ride..takes about 30 seconds..works for me...
  • 01-25-2008
    Al1943
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dinosaur
    No need to pull off your chain for cleaning.

    Only time I pull my chain is to replace it. I use mineral spirits on a rag, sometimes a cleaning machine. I use the rag after nearly every ride and home brew as a lube.

    Al
  • 01-25-2008
    cxwrench
    c40 is right...the campy chain will outlast the shimano chain every time. for one thing, the shimano chain will actually show partially worn from new on some chain wear measuring devices. they cost a bit more, but are worth it.
  • 01-26-2008
    backinthesaddle
    Wipperman links work fine on Shimano 10 chains. My ride partner broke his chain Wednesday night. We ran back to the house and I slammed a Wipperman link into his Ultegra chain. Works perfectly, shifts fine and isn't a sticky link.

    As for Shimano chains, they suck balls. I haven't run a Shimano chain in two years. All Wipperman, all the time. I need to try the Campy chain, just for giggles.
  • 01-26-2008
    C-40
    ??
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by backinthesaddle
    Wipperman links work fine on Shimano 10 chains. My ride partner broke his chain Wednesday night. We ran back to the house and I slammed a Wipperman link into his Ultegra chain. Works perfectly, shifts fine and isn't a sticky link.

    As for Shimano chains, they suck balls. I haven't run a Shimano chain in two years. All Wipperman, all the time. I need to try the Campy chain, just for giggles.

    Which wipperman link? The shimano or campy compatible version? Using the shimano version might work on a worn chain, but it's real risky on a new one. With no side clearance, you can pop the head off one of the pins, using the shimano compatible link.
  • 01-26-2008
    backinthesaddle
    It was a Shimano link and works fine. The chain MIGHT have 500 miles on it. It worked for 2 hours the other night and 3 hours on singletrack this morning.
    No worries...
  • 01-26-2008
    C-40
    Ok
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by backinthesaddle
    It was a Shimano link and works fine. The chain MIGHT have 500 miles on it. It worked for 2 hours the other night and 3 hours on singletrack this morning.
    No worries...

    Just warning that the next time you try this, use a feeler gage to check for side clearance with the inner plates. The 10S1 link and DA chain that I have produce NO clearance at all. A clearance in the .005-.008 inch range is normal, when new. A really worn chain can get up to .013 inch.
  • 01-26-2008
    ARP
    I just finished swapping out my Shimano 6600
    I think this past spring I switched out the chain and cassette, I probably have less than 1000 miles on that 6600. The last time I had that bike out on the road the shifting was really bad and I kept getting this hard clunk/ping/snap as the chain seemed to be surfing the cassette and front ring. I replaced it with a Nashbar branded KMC 10 speed chain. I did a side by side comparison, the 6600 chain seemed to have stretched somewhere between 1/4 to 1/3 of a link over the entire length but you could see in the first 2 feet of chain that the stretch was getting bad. I hope that the stretching chain was the source of the surfing.
  • 01-27-2008
    C-40
    not the problem...
    Lots of elongation is typical of for a Shimano chain, but the chain really isn't worn out until the elongation is 1/4 inch or half a link. Even then it won't cause the problem you describe. The chain and cogs wear in together. The worst that would have happened is the new chain would skip on one or two of your most heavily used cogs. If that didn't happen, then the cogs are good through the next chain.

    If you're getting a full 1/8 inch of elongation (or more) in only 1000 miles, you need to improve your maintenance technique. Comparing an old chain to a new one can also be bit misleading. I found that new chains are often about 1/16 inch shorter over their full length, than the nominal pitch. This makes the elongation comparison look worse than it is. I've made my own precision 53" measuring tool to eliminate that problem. I'm only using it for chain wear tests, however. Once I finish testing chains, I'll probably go back to using Campy chains only. Campy chains don't wear out due to elongation. Roller wear causes their demise and that can be checked with calipers or a plug gage.

    If you want the most mileage from your cogs, you should rotate three chains. So far, I'm predicting about 4,000 miles from a Shimano chain, before it reaches 1/4 inch elongation. If a single chain is used for that many miles and not changed, it could result in cog skip when a second chain is installed. Rotating twice as often will avoid that problem.
  • 01-27-2008
    Slim Again, Soon
    Rotating chains?
    Help me out here -- I'm having a hard time figuring out the wisdom of rotating chains.
  • 01-27-2008
    C-40
    the logic....
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Slim Again, Soon
    Help me out here -- I'm having a hard time figuring out the wisdom of rotating chains.

    If a single chain is left on a cassette for too long, the cogs will wear to match the increased pitchh of the chain. When a new chain is installed, it will skip on the cogs that are most worn (maybe only one). A chain with even a few hundred miles of use will not skip on this same cassette. By getting some wear on several chains, you're guaranteed that the cassette will not skip on any of them, for the life of all of these chains.

    Cogs won't last forever, even with this precaution. As the cogs wear and pitch increase, the contact point with the roller rises higher on the teeth. Eventually. a tooth may break under a heavy load.
  • 01-27-2008
    coasterbrake
    Where is the sense in wipperman making a quick link for shimano chains if it doesn't really work and you have to use the campy version?
  • 01-27-2008
    C-40
    info...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by coasterbrake
    Where is the sense in wipperman making a quick link for shimano chains if it doesn't really work and you have to use the campy version?

    Wipperman does NOT make a link for Shimano chains. They make a link that fits their chain, which was, at one time advertised, as "Shimano compatible". All that meant was it had the same width across the outside, but not all other identical dimensions. Wipperman used to a make a wider 10 speed chain that was referred to as "Campagnolo compatible" and coincidentally shared all critical dimensions (like the inner side plate width) with the orignal Campy 10 chain. Wipperman now makes only one 10 speed chain design (the narrower one) and they call it "compatible with all 10 speed systems". The connector link is just slightly wider on the inside than a perfect fit for the Campy UN and SRAM chain, but it's a tolerable fit.

    Shimano and KMC share all critical dimensions and can use the same connector link. The inner side plate width just happens to be nearly indentical to the original Campy 10 chain, so the Wipperman Campy compatible connex link fits either one.
  • 01-27-2008
    coasterbrake
    Thanks C-40, that info is very useful, I too am looking to use a quick-link on my DA 10spd chain and now I know what to get.