Where have all the UK Sellers Gone
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  1. #1
    cs1
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    Where have all the UK Sellers Gone

    Where have all the great UK sellers gone? I can't anymore discounts on Campy or Shimano. As soon as I change destination to USA Ribble won't display anything. Change it back to British pounds and magically they appear. So much for price fixing.
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    Shimano went to forbidding gray-market international sales last week. Campagnolo did the same over a year ago IIRC.
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  3. #3
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    Heaven forbid you have to pay msrp for bike parts.
    I work for some bike racers
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Heaven forbid you have to pay msrp for bike parts.
    It means I'll be buying less bike parts, for sure. I won't be buying a frame and a separate component group and assembling my own bike like I did with my Ritchey any more.

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    cs1
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Heaven forbid you have to pay msrp for bike parts.
    Yes heaven forbid. MSRP is just that, suggested.
    1995 Waterford 1200
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    Plus a host of old bikes too many to list.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
    Yes heaven forbid. MSRP is just that, suggested.
    If you buy parts from a bike shop it's what allows the shop to make the profit they need to remain in business. People ordering parts from the UK for less than bikes shops pay for them here were killing the LBS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    If you buy parts from a bike shop it's what allows the shop to make the profit they need to remain in business. People ordering parts from the UK for less than bikes shops pay for them here were killing the LBS.
    I have never ever payed MSRP for anything at my LBS. EVER. Maybe they just like me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmach View Post
    I have never ever payed MSRP for anything at my LBS. EVER. Maybe they just like me?
    That or they're just stupid.
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  9. #9
    cs1
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    If you buy parts from a bike shop it's what allows the shop to make the profit they need to remain in business. People ordering parts from the UK for less than bikes shops pay for them here were killing the LBS.
    @cxwrench I get the support your local business. But the world operates on competition. I am in the insurance business, but we are owned by one the largest auto groups in the US. Nobody pays retail for a car. We all wish they would but the reality is they do not. The same should be true for every industry. Price fixing is becoming a thing of the past. Eventually consumer direct component manufacturers will challenge Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAMís model.
    1995 Waterford 1200
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    Plus a host of old bikes too many to list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
    @cxwrench I get the support your local business. But the world operates on competition. I am in the insurance business, but we are owned by one the largest auto groups in the US. Nobody pays retail for a car. We all wish they would but the reality is they do not. The same should be true for every industry. Price fixing is becoming a thing of the past. Eventually consumer direct component manufacturers will challenge Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAMís model.
    No. They won't. The Big 3 have basically all the ways of making derailleurs patented. Even if someone wanted to sell a derailleur drivetrain MUSA, they couldn't...because foreign companies have all the ways of doing it patented. They'd be sued out of existence for infringement.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

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    cs1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    No. They won't. The Big 3 have basically all the ways of making derailleurs patented. Even if someone wanted to sell a derailleur drivetrain MUSA, they couldn't...because foreign companies have all the ways of doing it patented. They'd be sued out of existence for infringement.
    You are assuming that everything is patented. There is always a way to do something differently.
    1995 Waterford 1200
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    Quote Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
    You are assuming that everything is patented. There is always a way to do something differently.
    Which is why ROTOR had to resort to a hydraulically actuated derailleur system...because they couldn't come up with a way to use cable-pull that wasn't infringing on someone's IP. Needless to say, it hasn't taken off.

    Take it from Rotor's team:
    The company experimented with different mechanical solutions but ran into intellectual-property issues. ďIn the end, some patent or the other was stopping us at every step,Ē
    https://www.velonews.com/2015/08/new...vetrain_382968
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmach View Post
    I have never ever payed MSRP for anything at my LBS. EVER. Maybe they just like me?
    If you are a good customer who buys lots of stuff at your LBS, they will sometimes give you discounts. My shop does this. They also give a 10% discount for belonging to the local area bike club.

    It's a nice thing they do, but I NEVER, EVER ask for it or go in with the attitide of expecting it. Bike shops operate at a thin profit margin - especially jn the age of global e-commerce. My take it what will we do when brick and mortar shops are out of business? You can't get your bike repaired over the internet.

    I always ask my shop if they have or can get the parts I want. Surprisingly, it sometimes doesn't cost any more than USA e-commerce stores. If they can't get it, then I will go to the internet. When shopping on the internet, I only buy from USA vendors. It's bad enough very little is made here anymore, I'm not going to pinch a few pennies by shopping overseas.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
    @cxwrench I get the support your local business. But the world operates on competition. I am in the insurance business, but we are owned by one the largest auto groups in the US. Nobody pays retail for a car. We all wish they would but the reality is they do not. The same should be true for every industry. Price fixing is becoming a thing of the past. Eventually consumer direct component manufacturers will challenge Shimano, Campagnolo and SRAMís model.
    Fair competition is one thing, the way the bicycle industry screws itself over on a worldwide basis is completely different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    No. They won't. The Big 3 have basically all the ways of making derailleurs patented. Even if someone wanted to sell a derailleur drivetrain MUSA, they couldn't...because foreign companies have all the ways of doing it patented. They'd be sued out of existence for infringement.
    That comment would make logical sense if it was the big 1. But the fact there are 3 shows that patents aren't an obstacle that can't be overcome.

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    cs1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    That comment would make logical sense if it was the big 1. But the fact there are 3 shows that patents aren't an obstacle that can't be overcome.
    Microshift, SunRace and Box Components have proven that also.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    That comment would make logical sense if it was the big 1. But the fact there are 3 shows that patents aren't an obstacle that can't be overcome.
    Patents expire and I expect the ones most significant related to derailleurs expired a long time ago, such as Suntour's slant parallelogram patent.

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    cs1
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    Patents expire and I expect the ones most significant related to derailleurs expired a long time ago, such as Suntour's slant parallelogram patent.
    Which is one of, but not the only, reasonís Shimano left past SunTour. Once that patent expired SunTour had nothing left to compete with. The mechanical derailleur has reached the pinnacle of itís evolution. There isnít anything we can do to it that would make a measurable difference in its function.
    Now lets talk about buying parts that are affordable again.
    1995 Waterford 1200
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
    Which is one of, but not the only, reasonís Shimano left past SunTour. Once that patent expired SunTour had nothing left to compete with. The mechanical derailleur has reached the pinnacle of itís evolution. There isnít anything we can do to it that would make a measurable difference in its function.
    Now lets talk about buying parts that are affordable again.
    What's 'affordable' to you? I'd say Ultegra is an great deal.
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    Walmart bikes are pretty damn affordable, and can pretty much do everything a highend carbon bike can. Buy those if price is a concern.

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    Merlin still sells Shimano and Campagnolo groupsets.

    If the UK sellers selling Ultegra groupsets for $650 to $700 including shipping which works out to be less than what Palookaville Cyclery pays Shimano USA, QBP, Hadley et al then maybe it's time to cut out empty calories in the distribution system.

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    pmf
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    If you buy parts from a bike shop it's what allows the shop to make the profit they need to remain in business. People ordering parts from the UK for less than bikes shops pay for them here were killing the LBS.
    Oh come on --- how many people who buy a bike actually buy the parts and a frame and build it up? It's got to be a pretty small part of the market for a bike shop. The shop I go to appears to be more and more into the ebike market. A co-worker went there shopping for a bike a while back and said he was given a hard sell on en ebike. He went with the real thing instead.

    I guess I built up my last Campy equipped bike a couple years ago, because there's no way I'd pay the rip-off prices that Campy USA charges. Lack of competition isn't a good thing.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Oh come on --- how many people who buy a bike actually buy the parts and a frame and build it up? It's got to be a pretty small part of the market for a bike shop. The shop I go to appears to be more and more into the ebike market. A co-worker went there shopping for a bike a while back and said he was given a hard sell on en ebike. He went with the real thing instead.

    I guess I built up my last Campy equipped bike a couple years ago, because there's no way I'd pay the rip-off prices that Campy USA charges. Lack of competition isn't a good thing.
    Why is this limited to people buying complete groups for bike builds? People buy parts in all sorts of combinations...or just a derailleur. Doesn't matter to me how much they buy if they're getting it delivered for less than I pay for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Why is this limited to people buying complete groups for bike builds? People buy parts in all sorts of combinations...or just a derailleur. Doesn't matter to me how much they buy if they're getting it delivered for less than I pay for it.
    Why is that? Is it because you buy from a middleman like QBP instead of Shimano direct?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Why is this limited to people buying complete groups for bike builds? People buy parts in all sorts of combinations...or just a derailleur. Doesn't matter to me how much they buy if they're getting it delivered for less than I pay for it.
    Can you explain to me why bike shops can only source parts through QBP? Several times I've gone to my LBS and asked about, say, a stem. The guy whips out the QBP catalogue. There's nothing in there I want to buy. A quill stem? Forget it. One time one of the younger mechanics said I needed a new Campy inner chain ring (I didn't) for $140. I sheet you not. Another time, they said they couldn't replace the bearings in my rear wheel because they weren't an American Classic dealer. I ended up calling American Classic and buying them myself. And this is the best shop in the area -- please spare me the lecture ... For the past two decades I've bought a frame, components and hauled it down there and had the LBS assemble if for $250. They're happy to do it, they do a nice job, and they'll do simple adjustments in the future for free, or very cheaply. Plus they're a nice bunch of guys. But I have to wonder, with a business model like that, how sustainable is it?

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