will dura ace 9 sp double work on triple?
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  1. #1
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    will dura ace 9 sp double work on triple?

    I have double 39/53 with dura ace FD and shifters and want to go triple. ( I have a 118 BB )Someone said that the shifters won't work, but if the were ultegra they would. Any info would be helpful. thanks

  2. #2
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    "Someone" is correct. DA double shifters don't have the third position for shifting a triple. 9sp ultegra shifters do.

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    You would need to change the almost the entire drive train (front & rear derailleurs, crankset, longer chain and left shifter) to convert to triple.

    I suggest you consider just changing your crankset to a compact as a cheaper alternative to obtain a lower gearing ratio. It will not be as low as what you could get for a triple but it may be enough.

    Ritchey has compact cranks that are compatible with Shimano Octalink BB (type V1, 109.5mm). AE Bike's prices are quite reasonable (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30...id=5897&type=T)

  4. #4
    al0
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    And why, for God sake, the rear derailer?

    Quote Originally Posted by edmundtan
    You would need to change the almost the entire drive train (front & rear derailleurs, crankset, longer chain and left shifter) to convert to triple.

    I suggest you consider just changing your crankset to a compact as a cheaper alternative to obtain a lower gearing ratio. It will not be as low as what you could get for a triple but it may be enough.

    Ritchey has compact cranks that are compatible with Shimano Octalink BB (type V1, 109.5mm). AE Bike's prices are quite reasonable (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30...id=5897&type=T)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by al0
    And why, for God sake, the rear derailer?
    You would need a long-cage rear derailleur to accommodate the full range of a triple crankset.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmundtan
    You would need to change the almost the entire drive train (front & rear derailleurs, crankset, longer chain and left shifter) to convert to triple.

    I suggest you consider just changing your crankset to a compact as a cheaper alternative to obtain a lower gearing ratio. It will not be as low as what you could get for a triple but it may be enough.

    Ritchey has compact cranks that are compatible with Shimano Octalink BB (type V1, 109.5mm). AE Bike's prices are quite reasonable (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30...id=5897&type=T)
    Actually, if you change the cassette, you can get pretty darn close to the ratio you get with a triple. Obviously you won't have the high end gears, but most people who go from a standard double to a compact (like me) are more concerned with low end gearing than top speed...

  7. #7
    al0
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmundtan
    You would need a long-cage rear derailleur to accommodate the full range of a triple crankset.
    Yes, Shimano says so, but (as it is very often with Shimano) it is not true.
    I run triple with 22 tooth difference front and short cage derailer rear and shifting is perfect (tried with 11-21, 11-23 and 12-25 casettes, with triple I do not use bigger sporcklets)..

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericm979
    "Someone" is correct. DA double shifters don't have the third position for shifting a triple. 9sp ultegra shifters do.
    Ultegra 9-speed shifters actually have 4 main positions plus trimming. Two positions for the middle ring.

    Al

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by al0
    Yes, Shimano says so, but (as it is very often with Shimano) it is not true.
    I run triple with 22 tooth difference front and short cage derailer rear and shifting is perfect (tried with 11-21, 11-23 and 12-25 casettes, with triple I do not use bigger sporcklets)..
    Shimano is correct, but remember that their spec is intended to prevent the drivetrain from exploding. One can do what you are doing, but should you forget and shift into the big/big combo bad things will happen to your drivetrain that wouldn't happen with a setup that follows Shimano's recommendations.

    Personally, I'd go with a double, long-cage MTN derailleur and a 11-28 or 11-32 mountain cassette if I needed a wider range. I see no need for a large number of closely spaced rear cogs unless you're racing.

  10. #10
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    duh...

    As already noted, a short cage RD does not have enough wrap capacity to cover the extra 9 teeth from the 30T little ring. If you don't use the larger cogs, what's the use of having the triple? Even with a RD that has inadequate wrap capacity (and the correct chain length), the largest cogs should be perfectly useable. What is not be useable is the little ring and the smallest several cogs, since the chain will hang loose. If the chain is shortened to prevent this, then the RD will overextend if you ever happen to shift into the big ring and largest cog.

    Some people do get by with a short cage and a triple crank, but all those I've ever known to use such a setup use only the largest 2-3 cogs with the little ring as an occasional bailout. To do this, the chain length remains the same as it would with a double crank (enough to prevent breakage in the big/big combo). The smart thing to do is get a RD with the correct wrap capacity, so there are no restrictions.

  11. #11
    al0
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    Quote Originally Posted by thecrazyfinn
    Shimano is correct, but remember that their spec is intended to prevent the drivetrain from exploding.
    I would rather say that they are intended to ensure their income exploding (or, put it mildly, they often have financial, not mechanical, reasons).

    One can do what you are doing, but should you forget and shift into the big/big combo bad things will happen to your drivetrain that wouldn't happen with a setup that follows Shimano's recommendations.
    Have done this bad thing many times (I mean big-big combo) - no expoloding or other type of disaster (save, probably, minor chain rub in the from derailer) was caused. Yes, I never stay in it for long, but anyway.

    Personally, I'd go with a double, long-cage MTN derailleur and a 11-28 or 11-32 mountain cassette if I needed a wider range. I see no need for a large number of closely spaced rear cogs unless you're racing.
    This I have tried (really, it was original equipment of the bike), but was not very satisfied with this setup (name it matter of taste).

  12. #12
    al0
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    You are absolutely right (as in the most cases) - I as well use small ring as bail-out only on the extra steep climbs few of which are located in my area (there are climbs up to 26% grade, but in reality I ride climbs up to 22% only).

    I never have tried to try small ring (which in my case is not 30T, but 26T, as I have quite specific front setup) with anything smaller then 5th beggest cog - just see no need in it and very rarely use it with somthing smaller then 2nd biggest cog (otherwise I have appropriate gear on the middle ring)..

    BTW, first I had long-cage derailer till it was been broken in the mishap and I would definitely say that shifting (on the gears that I use) is much smotther with short-cage one.

    Quote Originally Posted by C-40
    As already noted, a short cage RD does not have enough wrap capacity to cover the extra 9 teeth from the 30T little ring. If you don't use the larger cogs, what's the use of having the triple? Even with a RD that has inadequate wrap capacity (and the correct chain length), the largest cogs should be perfectly useable. What is not be useable is the little ring and the smallest several cogs, since the chain will hang loose. If the chain is shortened to prevent this, then the RD will overextend if you ever happen to shift into the big ring and largest cog.

    Some people do get by with a short cage and a triple crank, but all those I've ever known to use such a setup use only the largest 2-3 cogs with the little ring as an occasional bailout. To do this, the chain length remains the same as it would with a double crank (enough to prevent breakage in the big/big combo). The smart thing to do is get a RD with the correct wrap capacity, so there are no restrictions.

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