Yeah, yeah, bla, bla, bla, another slipping chain...
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  1. #1

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    Yeah, yeah, bla, bla, bla, another slipping chain...

    Hello again you helpful people out there.

    I think it's fair to say I've built half a road bike and you kind people have built the other half!

    Anyway, here's another bit for you to fix for me.

    I've got 10 speed 105 sti brake/shifters (very good condition), internal cable routing (new cables/housing) to 105 double crankset (newish), 105 HG chain (brand new) to a 105 RD (newish) and an ultegra 12-27 cassette (brand new).

    I can set the inner ring to slip fairly smoothly over all the cogs and can set the outer to do the same. However, I cannot get them to do it at the same time. If I set it so the inner ring works perfectly I cannot get the big ring/little cog combination. Also, when it's on the large ring it struggles to shift down between cogs 4 and 5.

    What am I doing wrong please? I attached the cassette exactly as it arrived new, with all the spacers in the right place. I just can't figure it out and I've been trying for 3 days. Is there a compatibility problem with the space between the rings on the 105 crankset and the ultegra cassette? Or is it something else that's painfully obvious to someone?!

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by poorbiker14
    Hello again you helpful people out there.

    I think it's fair to say I've built half a road bike and you kind people have built the other half!

    Anyway, here's another bit for you to fix for me.

    I've got 10 speed 105 sti brake/shifters (very good condition), internal cable routing (new cables/housing) to 105 double crankset (newish), 105 HG chain (brand new) to a 105 RD (newish) and an ultegra 12-27 cassette (brand new).

    I can set the inner ring to slip fairly smoothly over all the cogs and can set the outer to do the same. However, I cannot get them to do it at the same time. If I set it so the inner ring works perfectly I cannot get the big ring/little cog combination. Also, when it's on the large ring it struggles to shift down between cogs 4 and 5.

    What am I doing wrong please? I attached the cassette exactly as it arrived new, with all the spacers in the right place. I just can't figure it out and I've been trying for 3 days. Is there a compatibility problem with the space between the rings on the 105 crankset and the ultegra cassette? Or is it something else that's painfully obvious to someone?!

    Thanks in advance.
    shift to small rear cog, undo cable from RD, check high limit, make sure guide pulley is accurately aligned with small cog by looking from rear of RD. Also check low limit: push RD by hand to the farthest position and make sure it also aligns with large cog. Once you got this correct, reattach cable to RD by pulling tight.
    Now check indexing... go to Park Tools web site for process...

    It sounds like indexing is not set correctly (assuming cassette is installed correctly). It takes patience to get it jut right by turning the adjuster barrel and listening for chain rubbing on cog. Also, new cables stretch and you have to re-tighten the cable after you ride a few times.

  3. #3
    Shop Wrench
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    I'm not sure what you mean by "inner ring" and "outer ring" - do you mean the largest cog and the smallest cog?

    Besides that clarification, I must ask - has the bike been down before? The first thing I think when high and low limit on the RD set properly but indexing is iffy between cogs in the middle of the cassette is a bent derailleur hanger - usually the result of a crash, a hard hit against a roof rack, etc.

  4. #4

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    Thanks for your suggestions.

    dave699: I meant the crank little and large rings, not the cogs on the cassette. Sorry for not making that clear. Since the frame has been in my possession (2nd hand) it has not been banged, dropped or crashed. The previous owner was a very careful man, as I could tell the way he packed the frame for shipping from another part of England (not international) and the fact that there is hardly a mark on it. He had it set up as a single speed TT bike, as I've had several conversations with him so there is unlikely to have been any incidents with the derailleur (and therefore hanger) being bent. I did check the hanger was straight because I read a few threads on here which offered that as the cause of other people's shifting problems.
    Maybe I'm being greedy and would like it to shift into all gears on both front rings but even with it set nicely shifting on the outer cogs (while on the large front ring) it still struggled between 5 and 4, which I would have thought were fair game, even on a 10 speed. I wouldn't go lower than that on the large ring. The derailleur is a short cage if that helps with diagnosis.
    robpar: The cassette, with spacers, went on the bike exactly as it arrived, sealed in polythene and I think, because of the nature of the grooves on the inside of the rings of the cassette, it's practically impossible to sit it on the splines incorrectly. When fitting the cassette the lockring 'clicked' 5 or 6 times I know that's installed solidly. It was the indexing that I've been attempting to do for a few days. I thnk it may be a case for the lbs but I hate being defeated.

    Thanks for your help.

  5. #5
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    I would also check the loop size going into the der. I have found that many of my mid cassette shift problems come from a too small loop. The cable has to go in straight and with out a an excessivly small circle.(the J shape from the stay to the der)

    I would also check you casing end for straightness just cutting them with a cutter is not enough either file or sane them straight.

  6. #6

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    I did file off the end of the cable. I may try a different length of loop though.
    Thanks!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave699
    I'm not sure what you mean by "inner ring" and "outer ring" - do you mean the largest cog and the smallest cog?

    Besides that clarification, I must ask - has the bike been down before? The first thing I think when high and low limit on the RD set properly but indexing is iffy between cogs in the middle of the cassette is a bent derailleur hanger - usually the result of a crash, a hard hit against a roof rack, etc.
    I'm wondering where you wrench that rings might be thought of as being somewhere other than on the crankset? Must be the culture of a particular region?
    Escalate. Always escalate.

  8. #8
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    If I read you correctly, you can get the Rd to index perfectly with either chain ring, but not with both. If that's the case check the hanger alignment.

    The idler cage must be on a plane parallel to that of the rear wheel. Otherwise as the idler cage rotates the jockey wheel will move in or out slightly, resulting in slightly different trim depending on the chain take up.

    Note: in most cases the hanger itself is squared to the wheel, but if the RD is slightly tweaked and the upper and lower bolts are not parallel, you should try to compensate so that the lower bolt is perpendicular to the wheel, as it's the idler cage and not the RD itself that counts.
    fb
    www.chain-l.com

    Solving any problem requires understanding the underlying cause

  9. #9
    RoadBikeReview Member
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    i have on occasion, had similar problem and it was the b screw, assuming 105 has one. Never used one

  10. #10

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    Excellent, thanks FBinNY. I'll have a look at that asap. Thank you for such detailed information. I'm away at my family's over Christmas so my bike's now in storage until the new year but I'll post again when I've had a chance to study it closely.
    Thanks again everyone.

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