Just got a Jake, couple of questions
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  1. #1

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    Just got a Jake, couple of questions

    I'm looking at a nicer riding fork, steel, ti or carbon, and I was wondering if anyone had the axle to crown height and the rake of the P2 fork. I looked on konaworld and didn't see any spec's. Any fork recommendations while I'm at it?

    One other thing, in case anyone might know, I'm going to change to a flat bar and I was wondering if I could use gripshifters with road deraileurs.

    The Jake is just a commuter/trainer ride for me, no racing at all, hence the flat bar. Thanks for any info.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak chris
    One other thing, in case anyone might know, I'm going to change to a flat bar and I was wondering if I could use gripshifters with road deraileurs.

    The Jake is just a commuter/trainer ride for me, no racing at all, hence the flat bar. Thanks for any info.
    Heresy! ;)

    Why don't you just get a set of wide bars (46cm) and use some top mount levers. The benefits:

    • A flat bar will decrease the length of the cockpit. Most likely you'll feel cramped.

    • A road bar gives you more hand positions than you can shake a stick at. You will see the benefits of riding on the hoods immediately.

    • Top mount (inline) brake levers will allow you to sit up for comfort and visibility. Pesonally, I hate riding the tops. I'm on the hoods and drops virtually all of the time.


    YMMV
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  3. #3

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    Prefer the position of an MTB

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripped
    Heresy! ;)

    Why don't you just get a set of wide bars (46cm) and use some top mount levers. The benefits:

    • A flat bar will decrease the length of the cockpit. Most likely you'll feel cramped.

    • A road bar gives you more hand positions than you can shake a stick at. You will see the benefits of riding on the hoods immediately.

    • Top mount (inline) brake levers will allow you to sit up for comfort and visibility. Pesonally, I hate riding the tops. I'm on the hoods and drops virtually all of the time.


    YMMV
    I would ride on the hoods the whole time, but I like the width of the MTB bars, I have a flat that's 600mm wide, still narrower than the 660mm bar on my MTB, but far wider than the 46cm road bar. Bar ends with some foam grips on them will pretty much replicate the hand position.

    I don't like riding on the drops, I'm not a roadie, I like being more upright. But I wanted the speed of the 700c wheels, so it was between a 29er and the Jake. I don't want/need another MTB, my Turner fills the bill quite nicely. I'm just too lazy to commute on 2.5's or change my tires everyday.

    I'm also trying to keep it on the cheap for now and I already have the bars and whatnot. Rode a crosscheck setup with a flat bar and I liked it a lot. Fast, but more like a MTB than a road bike. I'm sure it makes crossers cringe, but this is more of a utility purchase for me to get around and spin a couple times a week. I'll put a road tire on the rear and get a trainer this winter too.

  4. #4

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    Grip shifters

    I built a POS 1x7 commuter with a homemade 7 speed cassette on an 8 speed hub with a Sora RD controlled with an 8 speed grip shifter -- Jealous? ;). The shifting is great on that thing, which suggests to me that you will be fine.

    AFAIK, the cog spacing is not different for Shimano road and MTB drivetrain components.
    Last edited by czardonic; 06-09-2004 at 04:09 PM.

  5. #5
    Old, slow, and fat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak chris
    I'm sure it makes crossers cringe, but this is more of a utility purchase for me to get around and spin a couple times a week.
    I just went out and measured my mtn bike.

    Outside to outside, the bar's about 58cm. (Easton carbon with barends)
    Inside the grip to inside the grip's about 30cm.

    A 46cm bar's going to put your hands within 1-2cm of the outer edges of the grips on the mtn bike.

    Its your bike, so do whatcha want, but I can tell you from 18+ years of experience that having the extra hand positions is a GOOD thing. No, barends aren't the same thing. There's just something about them that ain't quite the same.

    The new Grip Shifts a 1:1 ratio. Its not gonna work with anything but a GS rear derailleur. Yes, if you buy the set, it will shift a 9sp road cassette.

    I'd go buy some Paul's Thumbies and get some barcons and make it retro.

    Listen to me now, hear me later.

    M
    I've moved back to NoVA. PLEASE change the weather!

  6. #6

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    2:1 grip shifters available.

    Quote Originally Posted by MShaw
    The new Grip Shifts a 1:1 ratio. Its not gonna work with anything but a GS rear derailleur. Yes, if you buy the set, it will shift a 9sp road cassette.
    http://www.sram.com/mtb/shifters/index.asp
    Last edited by czardonic; 06-09-2004 at 04:51 PM. Reason: sp

  7. #7

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    It can work...

    ...but the main issue is cockpit length, as Gripped pointed out. (Unfortunately, Jakes run shorter in the top tube than a lot of other 'crossers.) I Frankenbiked this Jake recently, going from a 12cm stem to 13.5; even with the additional extension, it feels just a bit cramped. It's good for casual riding--commuting, cruising the beach, running to the store--but I think anything over a couple of hours would get to me. I'm going to try removing some spacers and/or using a stem with less rise and see if it helps. If you do go this route, you don't want to go too long with the stem, as the steering's going to get slow.

    If you're going to go with a "flat" bar, something like the old Scott AT-2 like I used is a good choice. Rather than using the ultra-long rubber grips, I wrapped the bar with cork tape; it just feels better. The "horns" actually work better than a conventional flat bar/bar end combo. Of course, you won't be able to get twist shifters on there, but that's no loss. I'm running Suntour thumbshifters, which seem to go well with the overall feel of the bike.
    ...and as MShaw sez, you can get the Paul's Thumbies and have 9-sp thumbshifting.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak chris
    I don't like riding on the drops, I'm not a roadie, I like being more upright. But I wanted the speed of the 700c wheels, so it was between a 29er and the Jake. I don't want/need another MTB, my Turner fills the bill quite nicely. I'm just too lazy to commute on 2.5's or change my tires everyday.

    I'm also trying to keep it on the cheap for now and I already have the bars and whatnot. Rode a crosscheck setup with a flat bar and I liked it a lot. Fast, but more like a MTB than a road bike. I'm sure it makes crossers cringe, but this is more of a utility purchase for me to get around and spin a couple times a week. I'll put a road tire on the rear and get a trainer this winter too.

    I grew up riding ten speeds (I mean 5-speed rear cassette) but turned full time mountain biker in 1989. I rode mountain bikes exclusively for eleven years. I decided that I wanted a commuter and bought a used Trek 560. It took me about a week to get used to the drops again. I felt awkward at first but in no time I felt very comfortable in the drops. In fact, I then lowered my mountain bike bars about 3/4 inch for a more aggressive riding position.

    Anyway, you are who you are so I won't claim that you to could learn to love the drops.

    Given your desire to run with a flat bar, I suggest you get a Surly Karate Monkey 29". The tt length is set for a flat bar. The frames come up for sale pretty regularly on Ebay. Since this is a utility bike, you could set up as a SS and not have to buy all that fancy drivetrain stuff. I'm telling you, you want a Karate Monkey.

    One last thing -- if you put flat bars on a cross bike, you will shorten the cockpit length so that you will sit much more upright than you do on your mountain bike. In fact, you will be sitting so upright, you'll look like a recreational Fred! ;)
    Pro rep, yo!

  9. #9

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    Ok, I was asking about a different fork, because the P2 is a little harsh. This has turned into a "why I should run drops" thread. I had a road bike, properly sized and I didn't like the drops, made my back ache, so I always rode on the hoods. Wound up selling it because the riding position wasn't comfortable.

    I paid $300 for a nicely equipped Jake. I do not want a KM and I especially don't want to blow $1000 on a bike that I mainly just want to use to get to work. Its just a cheap commuter. I can't stress the cheap part enough, and building a Monkey isn't gonna run $300. I'll never be on it for more than maybe an hour at a time anyway. Only takes 20 minutes to get to work.

    As I said before, I rode a cross bike with a flat bar and I really liked it. The TT length on the Jake is is pretty close to the cross check I rode, I can easily make up the rest by pushing my seat back and/or a layback post and a slightly longer stem. The check had just a 100mm stem and a straight post. Seriously, I'm fine with the riding position, it works for me. Honestly.

    All I wanted to know about was what aftermarket forks people are running cause I was looking at the Winwood or maybe an IF steel as a replacement. I'll start a new thread that just asks that and nothing else. I do appreciate the advice, cause I'm certainly no expert, but I don't like drops.

  10. #10
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    Thread redirection is a tradition!

    Quote Originally Posted by ak chris
    I paid $300 for a nicely equipped Jake. I do not want a KM and I especially don't want to blow $1000 on a bike that I mainly just want to use to get to work. Its just a cheap commuter. I can't stress the cheap part enough, and building a Monkey isn't gonna run $300. I'll never be on it for more than maybe an hour at a time anyway. Only takes 20 minutes to get to work.

    All I wanted to know about was what aftermarket forks people are running cause I was looking at the Winwood or maybe an IF steel as a replacement.
    Either the Winwood or the IF will run you as much as you paid for the bike. Maybe just run higher volume tires (28mm slicks) at slightly less than max pressure. That's the cheapest option.

    If you wanna change forks, there are a couple on Ebay right now. An Al Specialized from an S-Works and a no-name steel (probably heavy). You might want to contact Kona for rake info if you are concerned about toe overlap.


    Quote Originally Posted by ak chris
    I'm certainly no expert, but I don't like drops.
    [In my best Obi-Wan Kenobi voice] You love the drops ...
    Pro rep, yo!

  11. #11
    Cyclocross is Seasonal?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ak chris
    Ok, I was asking about a different fork, because the P2 is a little harsh. This has turned into a "why I should run drops" thread. I had a road bike, properly sized and I didn't like the drops, made my back ache, so I always rode on the hoods. Wound up selling it because the riding position wasn't comfortable.


    All I wanted to know about was what aftermarket forks people are running cause I was looking at the Winwood or maybe an IF steel as a replacement. I'll start a new thread that just asks that and nothing else. I do appreciate the advice, cause I'm certainly no expert, but I don't like drops.
    I love my IF forks. Beautifully constructed and supple; however, paying close to $300 for a steel fork is probably not what you want to do. The Winwood fork is significantly cheaper and very burly. I ride with a bunch of guys who use them on their cross bikes for trail riding and like them a lot.

    As you've said, however, you will only be spending 20 minutes at a time on this bike. Unless your commute is over rough fire roads or single track, I don't think you'll get your money's worth by upgrading.

    I would stick with the P2 fork, run some 28-32C (I love the Michelin Dynamic line) slicks if you'll be commuting on pavement and fiddle with tire pressure so that you are efficient and comfortable. If your commute includes fireroads, check out the Michelin Transworld line for 35c + slicks and cross treaded tires.

    For that short of a commute spending $30 on tires makes more sense to me than spending $100+ on a fork.

  12. #12
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    Did you (or anybody else) ever find out what the P2's rake is?

    Just curious, as I'm close to pulling the trigger on an '05 JtS.

    Thanks,
    -Jeff

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