Trebon Crash Video
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  1. #1
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    Trebon Crash Video

    Here is a quick shot of video that I captured from Ryan's accident...

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=32q1oJtNDrQ

  2. #2
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    wow. those two guys in Trebon's lane are so far off course.

  3. #3
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    I hope the guy that ran into Trebon doesn't get a lot of crap, because the blame lies squarely with incompetent course designers and builders.

  4. #4
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    Man...you captured it alright. That was rough to watch. Can't believe that guy lost it so bad that he was going over the bars on that section. Looks like he panicked a bit...than again guess I would too with big treefarm coming at me.

    JT

  5. #5
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    Wow!!
    Zero

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt2gt
    Can't believe that guy lost it so bad that he was going over the bars on that section.
    I'm sure that each of us can think of stupid-ass crap we've done while pushing hard and on difficult course conditions. Look at how muddy and slippery that surface is.

    "Yeah, a thin strip of plastic tape, that oughta do the trick . . . ."

  7. #7

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    That's tough to watch. I agree, the course designer should have put a decent snow fence or something in there to protect everyone.

  8. #8
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    The guy that went way far right, witnessed the accident, then pulled the tape over his head to get back on the course, needs a good cockpunch.

  9. #9
    raging results nerd
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    Quote Originally Posted by pretender
    The guy that went way far right, witnessed the accident, then pulled the tape over his head to get back on the course, needs a good cockpunch.
    why? do you stop in races when someone else crashes directly in front of a crowd of spectators?

    the only argument that makes sense is "everyone crossing the tape needs a cockpunch," which i kind of agree with, but the guy who had to go further into the oncoming lane to avoid the crash is no worse than anyone else.

    in unrelated news, if you were so inclined, you could read the number of the rider that hit him and find a name matching that number on the results with a DNF.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by colinr
    why? do you stop in races when someone else crashes directly in front of a crowd of spectators?
    If I were not in podium contention and saw a crash that dramatic about two feet in front of my face, I would not so casually ride past and yank yet more course tape to get back on the course.

    Yup, cockpunching. I stand by it.

  11. #11
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    There were racers blowing though the tape on evey corner during every race, that's just how hard it was to control your bike in those conditions. As for stopping when witnessing a crash like that??? Maybe if it was a mtb race out in the middle of nowhere but not in a cross race with hundreds of people right there. I guess I'm just selfish.

    At least the guy who crossed over actually lifted the tape up when he got back on course. I had a guy in my race overshoot a corner, ride along the outside of the tape then blast right through it to get back on course. That was a dumb a** move if you ask me. The tape blew back at me but I was able to pedal though it slowly without it getting caught in my drivetrain.

  12. #12
    check out the podium
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    wow

    Horrible course design. check out the ruts that go right under the tape in that spot, that clearly didn't happen just once. As someone said, looks narrow too. KLM needs to tighten that sh!t up.
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  13. #13
    Lexicon Devil
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    Quote Originally Posted by DPCX
    There were racers blowing though the tape on evey corner during every race, that's just how hard it was to control your bike in those conditions. As for stopping when witnessing a crash like that??? Maybe if it was a mtb race out in the middle of nowhere but not in a cross race with hundreds of people right there. I guess I'm just selfish.
    I agree with this. What the hell's another racer going to do to help, that the huge crowd couldn't? All he'd be doing is standing/getting in the way when paramedics/spectating doctors would be trying to get close, as it only takes seconds for emergency services to get to a downed rider in a CX race.

    If something like that happened in front of me, I'd cringe, pucker-up a little, and ride around.

    Now, in road races, I've definitely stopped to help out downed riders. That sag wagon only comes around occasionally, and I'd rather do all that I could to help in a situation that REQUIRED my help than keep on riding.

  14. #14
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    OK I'm amending my cockpunch decree. He just seemed so blase about it, though, and he easily could have been the guy crashing into Trebon.

  15. #15
    Game on, b*tches!
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    In any case

    That was a stoopid-azz course design. They were asking for trouble there, esp w/ the conditions.
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  16. #16
    Number 2 on the course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pretender
    OK I'm amending my cockpunch decree. He just seemed so blase about it, though, and he easily could have been the guy crashing into Trebon.
    Why? Watch his shadow before he appears. He is way off his side of the course, even before the crash. It is hard to see where Trebon's eyes are, but I would not be suprised if that guy contributed significantly to the crash by cutting clear acros the course right as the other rider panicked and endo'd into Trebon. Trebon didn't have much room to steer around oncoming clown #1 without steering into oncoming clown#2. Who let this traveling circus onto the course during the elite race anyway?

    Obviously, this wouldn't have happened if the course had been different, but courses are run like this all the time IME. No excuses there. And don't I really don't get the whole "the other side of the course was hard to ride" nonesense.

  17. #17
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    well clearly the guy who didn't hit tree farm

    was even further off the course. so it wasn't just a single rider going off course
    2 guys at one instance had blown into another lane, one to the complete other side . he may have been forced ovr by rider #1, we'll never know.

    anyway that is bad. real bad. we've all raced on courses where they double back like that. it's just under those extreme conditions that it becomes so nasty.
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    still not figgering on biggering

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwcross
    Another thread hijack question - would disc brakes have prevented this accident?
    After watching the vid, I'm going to go out on a limb and estimate that if one or both of those guys had disc brakes, accident would have been prevented or not been nearly as bad.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwcross
    After watching the vid, I'm going to go out on a limb and estimate that if one or both of those guys had disc brakes, accident would have been prevented or not been nearly as bad.
    Just hope that the limb isn't severed by an errant hot spinning disc!

    Seriously, have you ever raced CX with discs? One fall on the non-driveside can contaminate your caliper with mud or sand and leave you with no brakes at all. This happened to a friend of mine at Sea Otter. Also, the only rider in my class who had serious braking problems this season a) had disc brakes and b) lost all braking power on the rainiest, muddiest day of the season.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwcross
    After watching the vid, I'm going to go out on a limb and estimate that if one or both of those guys had disc brakes, accident would have been prevented or not been nearly as bad.
    I doubt it.

    The guy who hit Trebon had slowed his bike, Trebon did not even touch his breaks it looks like, so any breaking system would have been moot there. My guess if Trebon was trying to steer around the clown in his path but since you can see the guy put his foot down (cause he's breaking/slowing) he make a bigger target which could not be avoided in this case. It prolly all happened too fast for anyone to do anything about really you just don't expect to see riders coming at you the wrong way esp when you driving it on a fast section.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterBreath
    Who let this traveling circus onto the course during the elite race anyway?

    Obviously, this wouldn't have happened if the course had been different, but courses are run like this all the time IME. No excuses there. And don't I really don't get the whole "the other side of the course was hard to ride" nonesense.
    You really had to be there to appreciate how treacherous this course was. Deep frozen ruts and ice with slippery mud on top. You will never see this surface at a local race, because it takes hundreds of racers over the course of 4 days of racing and multiple freeze-thaw cycles to create it. I raced twice and went off course a bunch of times, broke a couple plastic poles, crashed really hard once (on a benign looking straight section), and had to unclip and put a foot down many times. And the elite men were going twice as fast as me. Clearly the 2 guys who veered into Trebon's lane were out of control, but I'm not going to call them incompetent, reckless, or unskilled. I witnessed many national champions and other great riders crashing and ripping through the course tape throughout the weekend. Even Page bounced into the tape. The way to prevent a head-on collision like Trebon's is to either have really sturdy fencing (which would have caused many other crashes and mechanicals like destroyed brake levers), or a buffer zone between lanes.

  22. #22
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    The whole thing is ridiculous.. both the guys who went off course have a major lack of technical skills that should have kept them out of the Elite race at a National championships.

    They had enough traction to not go off course. If they had no traction they would have spun the tire and stopped and/or they would have just washed out the front tire and fell immediately. The guy who hit Trebon was not going over the bars. He was bailing off the bike cause of his own choice.. notice he goes off the side of the bike, not OTB, he was trying to unclip while on the brakes.

    They went off course cause their balance was off and they target fixated and/or didn't think to get their balance straight.

    There's just no excuse... even with the bad course design. It's freakin flat ground. And there is no way I believe that is sheer ice.. if it was they would have fallen like dominoes on their side of the tape, not rode into the oncoming traffic.

    If this was a freakin beginner MTB race no one would be blaming the course designers.. they'd be blaming the riders who went so far off course.

    But that's just me.. I have a hard time "getting" these cross races in ice/snow/mud.. if the conditions are going to be that bad they might as well be on MTBs with snow tires.

    As for Disc brakes.. at least with discs they would be able to stop fine & control their brakes *before* the first crash. With cantis in those conditions the brakes are worthless even without crashing.

    edit: Are studded tires allowed in CX?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeanutButterBreath
    Just hope that the limb isn't severed by an errant hot spinning disc!

    Seriously, have you ever raced CX with discs? One fall on the non-driveside can contaminate your caliper with mud or sand and leave you with no brakes at all. This happened to a friend of mine at Sea Otter. Also, the only rider in my class who had serious braking problems this season a) had disc brakes and b) lost all braking power on the rainiest, muddiest day of the season.
    I held off on building up my mountain bike race bike with discs for a couple years (thought they were too heavy and I didn't need them) and found out afterwards that I was stupid to wait that long. That was six years ago. I've never had anything happen like the above incident, or heard of it for that matter.

    On the cross end of things, I wish I could race disc but I can't because of the UCI rule. Agreed they're not needed on a good dry day. But on a wet day...I'd love some little 140's, light hubs, and carbon rims. Wouldn't add that much weight.

    I agree in retrospect that fencing was needed in that section - what chaos! I'm sure it will be the case next year, and that all big race promoters will learn from this incident.

  24. #24
    Number 2 on the course.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwcross
    I held off on building up my mountain bike race bike with discs for a couple years (thought they were too heavy and I didn't need them) and found out afterwards that I was stupid to wait that long. That was six years ago. I've never had anything happen like the above incident, or heard of it for that matter.
    MTB is not CX! Disc brakes are no more of an advantage than 2.3" tires or suspension forks. When do you ever ride your MTB in the kind of mud and sand that you see on a CX course (hopefully never because that is how trails get ruined and closed ).

    The above incident had nothing to do with inadequate braking power. It was on a flat section where people were trying to ride as fast as possible, not brake as quickly as possible. Some were just riding too fast. Brakes only work if you use them.

  25. #25
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    No offense but if you think mud like that never exists at MTB races I want some of what you're smoking.

    Conditions that extreme happen all the time. XC races on a rainy day will produce conditions like that very very quickly.

    Ice happens too. The difference is MTBers are way more likely to have practiced in those conditions (especially at an elite level) and have chosen their equipment appropriately. MTB racers practice all year.. lots of cross guys are roadies who never venture into the dirt all summer. Why else would MTB racers do so well in CX when the conditions get bad?

    Wider MTB tires with an even lower pressure then CX tires possibly with studs will handle that course like it's a joke and have no trouble making all the corners fine.

    CX just has an artifical equipment limitations to make the course seem harder then it is.. they are not hard courses in absolute terms.

    I didn't go this year but I went in 05 and 06. In these snow/ice/mud conditions throw someone like Craig, etc.. on XC MTBs, let them pick the appropriate tire.. and they'd run away from everyone else even more then they do now. In those conditions it's totally obvious the cross bike is making the course hard.. not the course.

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