David Walsh: Contador Is A Cheat!
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  1. #1

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    David Walsh: Contador Is A Cheat!


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    MB1
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    Yes but David Walsh thinks everyone is a cheat and makes his living by calling tour winners cheats and then selling books with the "expose details."
    Quote Originally Posted by the_dude
    these are better than i was expecting, and my expectations were already rather high.

  3. #3
    Call me a Fred
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    They should then use radar guns to measure the riders speeds. Anyone who goes faster than Walsh likes will then immediately be banned for doping.
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by MB1
    Yes but David Walsh thinks everyone is a cheat and makes his living by calling tour winners cheats and then selling books with the "expose details."
    To be fair to Walsh on that point, the only Tour winners not implicated in a doping scandal have been LeMond and Van Impe.

    btw - Basso was initially cleared in Operación Puerto, just like Contador.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astana-W%C3%BCrth_Team

    http://www.velonews.com/tour2007/new...s/12964.0.html
    Last edited by Hairnet; 07-29-2007 at 11:29 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hairnet
    To be fair to Walsh on that point, the only Tour winners not implicated in a doping scandal have been LeMond and Van Impe.
    But using Walsh's logic, doesn't the fact that LeMond holds the record for the fastest tour time trial, faster than all those riders Walsh believes are or were doping, prove that LeMond must have been doping too?

  6. #6
    BS the DC
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBiker
    They should then use radar guns to measure the riders speeds. Anyone who goes faster than Walsh likes will then immediately be banned for doping.
    BLAM!
    "The team wasn't just riders. It was the mechanics, masseurs, chefs, soigneurs, and doctors. But the most important man on the team may have been the chiropractor."

    - Lance Armstrong, Every Second Counts

  7. #7

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    Read Walsh's latest book. The circumstancial evidence is fairly overwhelming. I'd like to have believed LA didn't cheat. Can't do that anymore.

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    It's a lot easier to just close your eyes and be a fanboy than spend the time to read the evidence.

    Despite all of this, maybe the good Armstrong has done as a result of his victories has been worth it.

    Sure's he's become rich, but he's also provided inspiration to millions. That's worth something.

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    setting the record straight on Lemond's time

    I guess most people didn't actually watch Lemond's 1989 time trial because when they mention it as indication that he was cheating they dont seem to realize 1) it was only 24.5 kilometers long, 2) there was an elevation decline between start to finish.

    It was long enough to be included as a regular time trial, but really at 24 km it was somewhat between a prologue (which don't count in terms of the record) and the longer 50+ km time trials. There is no way Lemond could have kept that average up if it was a 50km TT. Plus, the guy basically just went out and rode as hard as he could asking not to be told times.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevesbike
    I guess most people didn't actually watch Lemond's 1989 time trial because when they mention it as indication that he was cheating they dont seem to realize 1) it was only 24.5 kilometers long, 2) there was an elevation decline between start to finish.
    My point exactly. It's impossible to argue that rider A is doping based on comparison to rider B's performance though Walsh continues to do so (selectively). From http://www.macleans.ca/canada/featur...27_150415_8508
    Just change Contador and Rasmussen to LeMond and Gourette-Col d'Aubisque to time trial

    DW (Walsh) ... Alberto Contador, is definitely cheating.

    M: How can you tell he’s cheating?

    DW: Michael Rasmussen went up the Gourette-Col d'Aubisque faster than Lance Armstrong ever went up it. Alberto Contador was alongside him the whole way.

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    Well, I hope he's not cheating, but my level of cynicism has risen to the point where I think that he probably is. Maybe they should tell us of cyclists they suspect are clean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FondriestFan
    It's a lot easier to just close your eyes and be a fanboy than spend the time to read the evidence.

    Despite all of this, maybe the good Armstrong has done as a result of his victories has been worth it.

    Sure's he's become rich, but he's also provided inspiration to millions. That's worth something.



    I believe that there is alot of inherent truths in what you say. It is far easier to know the "image" of Armstrong as a cancer survivor and endless supporter against the fight for cancer cures than it is to know the dark side of Armstrong. One of a intimidating, litigous bully who, I believe, did take drugs (EPO, Actovegin, corticosteroids, HGH, you name it) in his tour wins. Many of his teammates have been busted and it can be argued that his teammates in the mountains played big roles in helping him win those 7 tainted tours.

  13. #13
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    Phuck David Walsh. Relativism cannot be used to prove someone is doping - comparing Rider A to Rider B several years prior is worthless. Find Contador in the men's room with a syringe, otherwise piss up a rope.

  14. #14
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    well, there is the small fact that Contador comes from Manolo Saiz's Liberty Seguros-Würth team. Just to refresh things, Saiz managed Zulle, Olano, Igor González, Beloki, Heras, Vino, and a certain Johan Bruyneel. In terms of pedigree, that's about as dirty as they come. He is named in the OP documents (but appears to have struck a deal with Spanish cycling authorities, who have yet to act against a single Spanish rider). But, if you believe that a 24 year old Spaniard can climb like Delgado and time trial like Indurain then cheers to you.

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    I am not saying I believe Contador is clean - given recent developments, to assume anyone is clean in the pro peloton would be foolish. This does not mean we should assume their guilt, either. I am not privy to any information other than what I read on the interwebs. But in the absence of anything more than A beat B or A begat B and B begat C, which proves that Z is a cheater, I am going to stick to my original advice to David Walsh and his ilk. Piss up a rope.

  16. #16
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    Walsh is trying to sell books. Until there is some proof-- and there are some serious questions about the French lab doing the testing now- Walsh has little credibility.

  17. #17
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    Walsh is enormously credible - and a highly respected, award winning sporting journalist whose been writing on the Tour for many years - his book 'Inside the Tour de France' is one of the best written about the race.

    The only people who question Walsh's credibility are those who have either no idea of his career or who slavishly follow the Disco PR line.

  18. #18
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    Agreed --

    but how do you reconcile the fact that anyone not following the Disco PR line is, by definition, not credible?

    Fanboyz almost always grow up ... we'll see in a few years how the Armstrong legacy weathers time and scrutiny.
    Biking round the world -- Where have I been with my bike?

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    I'd be most interested to know how those same fanboys would react if Contador had won whilst still riding for Liberty/Astana - I suspect he would be open to considerably more scrutiny than he is now...

  20. #20
    AJL
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbedwire
    It is far easier to know the "image" of Armstrong as a cancer survivor and endless supporter against the fight for cancer cures than it is to know the dark side of Armstrong. One of a intimidating, litigous bully who, I believe, did take drugs (EPO, Actovegin, corticosteroids, HGH, you name it) in his tour wins.
    There is NO way LA took HGH in his post cancer years. As far as the rest, I wouldn't be suprised at all.

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    No offense, but WHY is there no way LA took HGH in his post-cancer years? If you believe he took other drugs post cancer, what about HGH do you believe he would refuse?

  22. #22
    MB1
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    So which am I?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchigirl
    ......The only people who question Walsh's credibility are those who have either no idea of his career or who slavishly follow the Disco PR line.
    Since there seems to be no third way?
    Quote Originally Posted by the_dude
    these are better than i was expecting, and my expectations were already rather high.

  23. #23
    I heart team Zissou!
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    All I can say is the reason I wouldn't take HGH is that is reputed to be a cancer accelerator .... oh, and the 1000 euros/month cost....oh, and the fact that I can live with myself as a middle-of-the-road competitor whose occasional flashes of brilliance on the bike have been acquired only through natural means (and I'm not referring to homologous vs. autologous blood transfusions here!)
    Biking round the world -- Where have I been with my bike?

  24. #24
    Windrider (Stubborn)
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    Quote Originally Posted by AJL
    There is NO way LA took HGH in his post cancer years.
    Based on what?

    & don't give me that he had cancer, he would never put anything like that in his body BS. Ever see someone in Lung cancer remission smoking? Ever see somone recovering from a Heart attack go off their diet & exercise regime? Heman nature isn't that predictible.

    Len



    "Evil....is the complete lack of Empathy!"

    ""We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit. " Aristotle

    No one is as bad as the worst thing they have done & no one is as good as the best thing they have done.........think of that when you feel like you understand someone.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB1
    Yes but David Walsh thinks everyone is a cheat and makes his living by calling tour winners cheats and then selling books with the "expose details."

    unfortunately he's usually right. he faced much the same mockery he's getting here when he questioned the legitimacy of the Irish swimmer Michelle Smith's gold medals in the '96 olympics yet she was later shown to have tampered with a drug test and got a 4 year ban.

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