So LeMond was "clean"?? - Page 12
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  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk
    Good pt.
    Not to mention watching it in HD! Heck I would probably watch for the helicopter shots of the French countryside in HD alone. What a beautiful country.
    Dr. Cox: Lady, people aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard fillings. But I don't find them half as annoying as I find naive bubble-headed optimists who walk around vomiting sunshine.

  2. #277
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    Piece in today's Toronto Sun about Bauer & new team had this:



    We just don’t realize the most significant moments of our lives when they’re happening
    Back then I thought “well there'll be other days”
    I didn’t realize that was the only day
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9yrupye7B0

    There's sometimes a buggy.
    How many drivers does a buggy have?
    One.
    So let's just say I'm drivin' this buggy...
    and if you fix your attitude you can ride along with me.
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  3. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerjulio
    Piece in today's Toronto Sun about Bauer & new team had this:



    Thanks for posting! Nice to see the Greg Lemond reference by Bauer on winning clean.

  4. #279
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    Bauer and LeMond are BOTH dopers Who fricken' knows at this point?? By Bauer stating this, it "removes" any suspicion that he himself doped. Preeeetttty clever..

    "How can anyone be so stupid to dope...?" Come on. Really?

  5. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk
    Bauer and LeMond are BOTH dopers Who fricken' knows at this point?? By Bauer stating this, it "removes" any suspicion that he himself doped. Preeeetttty clever..

    "How can anyone be so stupid to dope...?" Come on. Really?
    You don't give up do you?

  6. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultimobici
    You don't give up do you?

    huh? ditto x ten
    Last edited by rydbyk; 01-24-2011 at 06:19 PM.

  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk
    Bauer and LeMond are BOTH dopers Who fricken' knows at this point?? By Bauer stating this, it "removes" any suspicion that he himself doped. Preeeetttty clever..

    "How can anyone be so stupid to dope...?" Come on. Really?
    LOL.... Really..... funny to read your grasping at straws stuff... LOL...

  8. #283
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    Please explain how you and ultimoduchi seem to "know" about what has transpired in cycling's past.

    I said "Who knows at this point?" That would imply me NOT knowing. At least I have the capability to accept that I do not know.

    My money is where my mouth is. IMO LeMond doped. Deal with it. God forbid someone disagrees with either of you two moreons..

    "LOL" What...are you ten?

    Hey Pedalruns...didn't you say this: "I'm a novice at doing my own work,..." Nuff said...rookie
    Last edited by rydbyk; 01-24-2011 at 07:22 PM.

  9. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk
    Please explain how you and ultimoduchi seem to "know" about what has transpired in cycling's past.

    I said "Who knows at this point?" That would imply me NOT knowing. At least I have the capability to accept that I do not know.

    My money is where my mouth is. IMO LeMond doped. Deal with it. God forbid someone disagrees with either of you two moreons..

    "LOL" What...are you ten?

    Hey Pedalruns...didn't you say this: "I'm a novice at doing my own work,..." Nuff said...rookie
    OK, let's just agree to disagree.

    I don't know 100% that Lemond was clean, but on the evidence that has been presented there is a very strong chance that I am right. I too am prepared to put my money where my mouth is on that point. So IMO Lemond was clean as a whistle.

    I was more taking issue with your way of presenting your opinion, including your disingenuous reply.

  10. #285
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    Yep

    Quote Originally Posted by ultimobici
    OK, let's just agree to disagree.

    I don't know 100% that Lemond was clean, but on the evidence that has been presented there is a very strong chance that I am right. I too am prepared to put my money where my mouth is on that point. So IMO Lemond was clean as a whistle.

    I was more taking issue with your way of presenting your opinion, including your disingenuous reply.
    OK..fair enough. Implying the someone should "give up" instead of disagree with you is a bit odd. I did a quick review of this thread and noticed that you have been a huge LeMond supporter start to finish with numerous posts. You have done a great job of researching this whole thing and presenting us with endless article clips etc. I hope that you are correct in claiming that LeMond raced clean. You know where I stand. Like yours, my stance is based on logic. Who knows...who knows?

    Back in 1999, would you have argued that Lance raced clean based on the endless articles to be had that suggested his innocence?
    Last edited by rydbyk; 01-25-2011 at 08:27 AM.

  11. #286
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    this being a VERY old thread, but as a few years have passed, does anyone here have a change in opinion on Greg Lemond having not doped? I don't believe he ever did, and I laughed so hard at this years ago I couldn't comment on some who posted here that they thought he did. a lot has come out about Armstrong, but none on Lemond in the past 8 yrs. any thoughts?

  12. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by trumpetbiker View Post
    this being a VERY old thread, but as a few years have passed, does anyone here have a change in opinion on Greg Lemond having not doped? I don't believe he ever did, and I laughed so hard at this years ago I couldn't comment on some who posted here that they thought he did. a lot has come out about Armstrong, but none on Lemond in the past 8 yrs. any thoughts?
    Yup ... still believe he doped, maybe not his entire career, but 1989 he made "HUGE" gains in fitness to win the Tour against others that were clearly doping.

    I'm doubting there has been any great or even good cyclist ... ever ... that didn't do something considered doping.

    Name a sport of your choice ... any sport ... and you will find doping on one level or another going on throughout it's history. Just the way it is and to think otherwise is just naive and ignoring the facts.

    People not talking about Lemond ... the "CODE" was much stronger back then, though it is still quite strong to this day. They just don't talk about it and don't rat out others ... mostly because they were just as dirty and there in absolutely nothing to gain from it.

    Armstrong would have got away with it if he wasn't such an A$$ ... he made people hate him, which in the end was his undoing. If he had been a good guy that whooped everybody, he would still be holding onto his 7 TDF titles.
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  13. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookiebiker View Post
    Yup ... still believe he doped, maybe not his entire career, but 1989 he made "HUGE" gains in fitness to win the Tour against others that were clearly doping.

    I'm doubting there has been any great or even good cyclist ... ever ... that didn't do something considered doping.

    Name a sport of your choice ... any sport ... and you will find doping on one level or another going on throughout it's history. Just the way it is and to think otherwise is just naive and ignoring the facts.

    People not talking about Lemond ... the "CODE" was much stronger back then, though it is still quite strong to this day. They just don't talk about it and don't rat out others ... mostly because they were just as dirty and there in absolutely nothing to gain from it.

    Armstrong would have got away with it if he wasn't such an A$$ ... he made people hate him, which in the end was his undoing. If he had been a good guy that whooped everybody, he would still be holding onto his 7 TDF titles.
    Yep. Yep and yep... also, people's definition of "doping" varies quite a bit. What if LeMond used a PED that was not yet deemed "illegal" that today is listed as a banned substance. Is that not doping? Pro cyclists have been doping for 100 years. LeMond was a BEAST with insane natural talent....love him and what he did for cycling. I am not blind though...

  14. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Falsetti View Post
    Throughout his career he worked with doping doctors, first Francis Bellocq then Bernard Sainz (Dr. Mabuse).

    I could go on but I am sure you get the picture......interesting how there is nothing similar on LeMond
    Edit. My personal opinion if there was any hanky panky with Lemond and doping, those internal circles would have spoke about it. I highly doubt he doped.
    Last edited by Eretz; 08-30-2019 at 02:12 PM.

  15. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookiebiker View Post
    Yup ... still believe he doped, maybe not his entire career, but 1989 he made "HUGE" gains in fitness to win the Tour against others that were clearly doping.

    I'm doubting there has been any great or even good cyclist ... ever ... that didn't do something considered doping.

    Name a sport of your choice ... any sport ... and you will find doping on one level or another going on throughout it's history. Just the way it is and to think otherwise is just naive and ignoring the facts.

    People not talking about Lemond ... the "CODE" was much stronger back then, though it is still quite strong to this day. They just don't talk about it and don't rat out others ... mostly because they were just as dirty and there in absolutely nothing to gain from it.

    Armstrong would have got away with it if he wasn't such an A$$ ... he made people hate him, which in the end was his undoing. If he had been a good guy that whooped everybody, he would still be holding onto his 7 TDF titles.
    LeMond did not make HUGE gains in fitness, in fact in 89 he was not close to his previous form. The code was also not stronger. I talked often riders and staff back then about doping. I talked with Greg, his teammates, and others he worked with. The consensus was always the same, Greg rode clean. Even those who had falling outs with him and could have gained by making up a story stood by their position that Greg rode clean.

    Bike racing is dirty but I have yet to see or hear any creditable evidence that Greg doped .
    "I would like you to do us a favor"

  16. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookiebiker View Post
    Yup ... still believe he doped, maybe not his entire career, but 1989 he made "HUGE" gains in fitness to win the Tour against others that were clearly doping.

    I'm doubting there has been any great or even good cyclist ... ever ... that didn't do something considered doping.

    Name a sport of your choice ... any sport ... and you will find doping on one level or another going on throughout it's history. Just the way it is and to think otherwise is just naive and ignoring the facts.

    People not talking about Lemond ... the "CODE" was much stronger back then, though it is still quite strong to this day. They just don't talk about it and don't rat out others ... mostly because they were just as dirty and there in absolutely nothing to gain from it.

    Armstrong would have got away with it if he wasn't such an A$$ ... he made people hate him, which in the end was his undoing. If he had been a good guy that whooped everybody, he would still be holding onto his 7 TDF titles.
    any evidence to backup your opinion?

  17. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    any evidence to backup your opinion?
    Evidently not.


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  18. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    any evidence to backup your opinion?
    of course none of them do. in fact, not only is there no evidence of ever could have been, but no accounting from anyone at the time that could point towards Lemond and doping. reason? they knew him and his thinking, his history and practices. how he believed. he would have felt like he betrayed himself had he he done it.

    not believing someone can be good enough is understandable, but to believe because they accomplished it beyond what you can believe that something else had to be in play is a skeptic and a conspiracy theorist. none of the cyclists of that era or after could feel good about accusing Lemond of doping in any way with illegal stuff, there are no legit accusations from guys who had reason to hate him.

    the only people that would think he had to have doped is a person who believes doping is ok, deep down.

  19. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by trumpetbiker View Post
    of course none of them do. in fact, not only is there no evidence of ever could have been, but no accounting from anyone at the time that could point towards Lemond and doping. reason? they knew him and his thinking, his history and practices. how he believed. he would have felt like he betrayed himself had he he done it.

    not believing someone can be good enough is understandable, but to believe because they accomplished it beyond what you can believe that something else had to be in play is a skeptic and a conspiracy theorist. none of the cyclists of that era or after could feel good about accusing Lemond of doping in any way with illegal stuff, there are no legit accusations from guys who had reason to hate him.

    the only people that would think he had to have doped is a person who believes doping is ok, deep down.
    The evidence will be minimal at best ... due to the times he was riding. Testing was a joke and new, un-testable drugs were on the market.

    The evidence we do know of is that he was receiving injections in front of reporters ... he states were Vitamin B12 shots, however NOBODY but the person who filled the needle knows what was actually in the injection. It's unknown whether it was B12 or EPO as it was out at the time.

    The simple fact is Lemond himself may not have known he was doping (not unheard of at that time).

    What we do know beyond the injections is he had a "Remarkable" comeback in 1989 for the TDF and was beating other riders that knowingly were doping with EPO.

    That makes Lemond either the absolute GREATEST cyclist of all time ... or another doper. When a performance appears to be too good to be true, it generally is ... a rule of thumb to live by.

    The simple fact, and it is a FACT ... is he was getting medical injections. What we don't know is what was in them.

    Lemond fans will ALWAYS deny anything other than B12 ... which if he needed injections to perform at that level, it's still doping, just not ruled illegal at the time. His body was incapable of performing at that level without them ... which is doping, kind of a modern day TUE abuse.

    Those who look at it objectively and all the facts can see he was using something more than B12 shots in 1989 ... so we can just leave it at that.
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  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookiebiker View Post
    What we do know beyond the injections is he had a "Remarkable" comeback in 1989 for the TDF and was beating other riders that knowingly were doping with EPO.
    Who are other riders that LeMond was beating, in the 1989 Tour de France, that were knowingly using EPO at that time?

    Also, how many iron shots did LeMond do? From what I remember, he did an iron shot during last week of the '89 Giro, due to anemia at that point. Is there record of him doing multiple shots at various races ? You make it sound like he had a syringe in his arm at press conferences.

  21. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wookiebiker View Post
    The evidence will be minimal at best ... due to the times he was riding. Testing was a joke and new, un-testable drugs were on the market.

    The evidence we do know of is that he was receiving injections in front of reporters ... he states were Vitamin B12 shots, however NOBODY but the person who filled the needle knows what was actually in the injection. It's unknown whether it was B12 or EPO as it was out at the time.

    The simple fact is Lemond himself may not have known he was doping (not unheard of at that time).

    What we do know beyond the injections is he had a "Remarkable" comeback in 1989 for the TDF and was beating other riders that knowingly were doping with EPO.

    That makes Lemond either the absolute GREATEST cyclist of all time ... or another doper. When a performance appears to be too good to be true, it generally is ... a rule of thumb to live by.

    The simple fact, and it is a FACT ... is he was getting medical injections. What we don't know is what was in them.

    Lemond fans will ALWAYS deny anything other than B12 ... which if he needed injections to perform at that level, it's still doping, just not ruled illegal at the time. His body was incapable of performing at that level without them ... which is doping, kind of a modern day TUE abuse.

    Those who look at it objectively and all the facts can see he was using something more than B12 shots in 1989 ... so we can just leave it at that.
    spooky
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    spoooookyyyyyy
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