Zwift cheating costs British rider
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  1. #1
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    Zwift cheating costs British rider

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/10/...-cheating.html

    10/08 Edit to add some details for those who don't want to bother with link:

    -Cameron Jeffers is the rider that got in trouble

    -Stripped of British Virtual Racing championship and banned from racing (virtual and real) for 6 months and fined

    -Yes, he's also a real racer, rides for Saint Piran

    -What he actually got in trouble for: He cheated in his method to obtain the upgraded virtual bike that he Zwift raced with by using simulator to rack up the time/miles/climbing/etc required to unlock the bike
    Last edited by jetdog9; 10-08-2019 at 10:42 AM.

  2. #2
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    Thing is, if he had've just entered the Everest challenge and rode normally, he would have likely had the vertical to earn the bike legitimately.

    Let's be honest, there are more ways to cheat at virtual racing than there are in actual racing. This isn't even close to the level of what happens in just about every Zwift race across the categories. Some get caught, but a lot don't.

    I've liked Zwift since it was in beta and I primarily rode with Blue Man Group on Jarvis, but it will never replace the real world for me.

  3. #3
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    People will cheat at anything, no matter how pathetic. Even video games.

    The funny part is British Cycling evidently made up a rule to charge him with--because what he did was not in the rule book.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    People will cheat at anything, no matter how pathetic. Even video games.
    "Especially" video games. People have been cheating in video games since they have existed.

    Any time the client hardware and software is in the clients hands, cheating is going to happen. There doesn't even really have to be motivation for it.

    As far as the e-sports stuff, the sanctioned championship events happened in a venue where the hardware (computer and trainer) was provided to them. Everyone was on the same 'real world' hardware and it had all been calibrated prior to their event, and the competitors had to weigh in.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    "Especially" video games. People have been cheating in video games since they have existed.

    Any time the client hardware and software is in the clients hands, cheating is going to happen. There doesn't even really have to be motivation for it.

    As far as the e-sports stuff, the sanctioned championship events happened in a venue where the hardware (computer and trainer) was provided to them. Everyone was on the same 'real world' hardware and it had all been calibrated prior to their event, and the competitors had to weigh in.
    Cheating in video games that matter not IRL, nor were intended to, is one thing But cheating on a platform intended to make people fitter (Zwift etc) by falsifying results is another.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  6. #6
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    I remember watching videos on YouTube of a couple Asian guys on a couch with a DeWalt drill and a speed sensor giggling as they took jersey after jersey. Or adding a couple magnets to your wheel. Or choosing a dumb trainer with favorable (wildly inaccurate or easily manipulated) Zwift Power characteristics. Or weight-doping. Or any number of other methods to cook the books and get a performance advantage.

    It's been happening on Zwift for as long as the platform has existed. Some people are looking for status as a cyclist they haven't earned, so are looking to mess with people just for kicks. It only affects you if you place importance on the endeavor and have some stake in the outcome. So, in that regard it's like IRL racing.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
    I remember watching videos on YouTube of a couple Asian guys on a couch with a DeWalt drill and a speed sensor giggling as they took jersey after jersey. Or adding a couple magnets to your wheel. Or choosing a dumb trainer with favorable (wildly inaccurate or easily manipulated) Zwift Power characteristics. Or weight-doping. Or any number of other methods to cook the books and get a performance advantage.

    It's been happening on Zwift for as long as the platform has existed. Some people are looking for status as a cyclist they haven't earned, so are looking to mess with people just for kicks. It only affects you if you place importance on the endeavor and have some stake in the outcome. So, in that regard it's like IRL racing.
    I am with this ^^^. I get why itís inappropriate, but I also kind of donít care. I mostly feel bad for him that it means that much to him really. Itís weird.
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    Here's an interesting talk on virtual cycling technology and cheating:
    https://youtu.be/pq9t0VEIMio

    You can download and install this software to hack the ANT+ data stream:
    "eSports Leet Automatic Network Cheating Enhancement (ELANCE)"
    https://github.com/rbdixon/edope

    Apparently has a few modes where it'll enhance your data by a specified amount and another one where it's pretty much all computer generated including sucking in Strava data from other riders on the same terrain for heart rate data to make it look like you are working hard.

  9. #9
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    I notice now for the Pro Am races on Zwift that they can't use the tron bike and are supposed to use their team sponsor's bike if they are on a team.
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  10. #10
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    Certain bikes in certain configurations are faster than the Tron bike in certain situations. That this is known shows that some people take this very, very seriously. I'm not one of them.

    They really need to just limit the racers to one generic Zwift bike for competition or let them ride a sponsors bike but apply uniform performance parameters.

  11. #11
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    In Races that Matter (tm), they should let anyone use whatever bike they want. They just need to make *all* bikes available for the race, including bikes that a rider may have not unlocked.

    Just like the riders themselves, some bikes are better at speed, some are better at climbing. Riders should be free to choose with no restrictions.

    Alternatively, the race promoter could limit the bikes available (i.e. no TT bikes), with the caveat that all riders, regardless of level, etc... get access to the same bikes.

    This would be easy to do... just allow theh riders to choose their bike when they sign up for the race, and put them on that bike when they move them into the corral.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    In Races that Matter (tm)...
    Lost me there.

  13. #13
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    Why donít people just use e-bikes, and control their threshold to something winning, but believable?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Why donít people just use e-bikes, and control their threshold to something winning, but believable?
    Why bother, when there are cheaper and easier ways to cheat? Right now there are more than a few riders on Zwift that have better 60min w/kg numbers than Lance in his heyday. Either Zwift has exposed a vast amount of untapped cycling talent, or people are cheating (for whatever reason). No need to mess around with transfusions, EPO, or other messy substances. You can simply digitally enhance your performance numbers, tweak the power characteristics of your trainer, or do any number of other things to put yourself exactly where you belong- among cycling's elite.

    Zwift is great. Use it however you see fit. Just realize that there are a gazillion more ways to cheat on Zwift than in your average UCI-sanctioned race (where by some accounts 90% of the riders are doping).

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
    Why bother, when there are cheaper and easier ways to cheat? Right now there are more than a few riders on Zwift that have better 60min w/kg numbers than Lance in his heyday. Either Zwift has exposed a vast amount of untapped cycling talent, or people are cheating (for whatever reason). No need to mess around with transfusions, EPO, or other messy substances. You can simply digitally enhance your performance numbers, tweak the power characteristics of your trainer, or do any number of other things to put yourself exactly where you belong- among cycling's elite.

    Zwift is great. Use it however you see fit. Just realize that there are a gazillion more ways to cheat on Zwift than in your average UCI-sanctioned race (where by some accounts 90% of the riders are doping).
    its not 1998, I don't think 90% of the peloton is doping (well, maybe 90% of Movistar. . . j/k). Zwift racing generally will always be a bit of a joke from an accuracy perspective given the rather rampant cheating and Zwift's general Sargent Shultz approach to the issue, but it is a great training mechanism and tool for pushing yourself.
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  16. #16
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    I think eRacing has a way forward, but it mostly involves a lot of first person verification of equipment and the racer. Kinda negates the whole concept of eRacing, in my opinion. Basically the only way to make it fair is to have the racers show up at a designated place, weigh in on the same scale, use the same model trainers which have been tested that day for accuracy across a range of power readings, and use virtual equipment that has equal parameters.

    Sounds boring as hell as a spectator sport. Even more so than a real road race. No chance for wrecks or other actual danger. Just a bunch of guys cranking away side by side, staring at televisions. At least the overhead is low.

    Zwift is a great training aid, depending on how you use it. I've ruined a training block more than once on Zwift, and burned out just before a couple race seasons by overdoing it. Some people can be more disciplined than I am capable of.

    One thing is for sure- the moment I can get on snow/ice-free pavement I jump at the chance to get away from Zwift. Reality is just so much better.

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