fixed frame w/ rear disc?
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  1. #1
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    fixed frame w/ rear disc?

    Anyone make an off-the-shelf fixed frame with rear disc now? I can't seem to get the attention of custom builders (Vanilla) to do this for me.

    Spent last week in Palm Springs (80+ degrees -- poor me) riding up and down "Tram Way," a huge steep climb with corresponding descent, where I melted the Tufo glue strip out of my front tire/rim braking on the long descent. So, back in the market for a rear disc equipped frame.

    Thanks.
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  2. #2
    Old and Fixed, Moderator
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    I'm not aware of any off the shelf disk fixed but this is the best solution I've seen. This bike is a 20" wheeled bike but it could be applied to a 700c frame. The whole unit slides.
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  3. #3
    grippy...
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    Problem #2

    ...finding a fixed disk rear hub. I think Paul and maybe Phil Wood do them on occasion, but they aren't easy to find.

    The Paragon dropouts shown above are pretty cool, Moots is one builder that's making use of them (hardly the off-the-peg solution you're looking for...). I can't think of a disk frame that would work as a fixed, except for the Karate Monkey http://www.surlybikes.com/karatemonkey.html
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  4. #4
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    You can try a 29" mountain bike, but the top tubes are longer than on a road bike, so sizing may be a problem. The Kona Unit 2-9 has sliding dropouts, and the Karate Monkey and the Soma Juice have fork ends with disc mounts.

    A more obvious solution for the immediate problem: get a set of clincher wheels for rides like that. Probably easier and cheaper than a new bike. You could also just add a rear brake to distribute the braking power a little better.

  5. #5
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    3 words....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fixed
    Anyone make an off-the-shelf fixed frame with rear disc now? I can't seem to get the attention of custom builders (Vanilla) to do this for me.

    Spent last week in Palm Springs (80+ degrees -- poor me) riding up and down "Tram Way," a huge steep climb with corresponding descent, where I melted the Tufo glue strip out of my front tire/rim braking on the long descent. So, back in the market for a rear disc equipped frame.

    Thanks.
    Eccentric Bottom Bracket.


    Now for a few more words. All you have to do is ask a custom builder to build you a SS road bike with an eccentric BB (you use the eccentric BB to take up the chain slack without moving the brake surface around (fairly common in SS ATBs)), track ends and a disc brake fitting. Gunnar/Waterford for one ought to be able to take care of your needs.

    Or go to that custom frame show in San Jose and ask around.
    Quote Originally Posted by the_dude
    these are better than i was expecting, and my expectations were already rather high.

  6. #6
    NeoRetroGrouch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixed
    Anyone make an off-the-shelf fixed frame with rear disc now? I can't seem to get the attention of custom builders (Vanilla) to do this for me.

    Spent last week in Palm Springs (80+ degrees -- poor me) riding up and down "Tram Way," a huge steep climb with corresponding descent, where I melted the Tufo glue strip out of my front tire/rim braking on the long descent. So, back in the market for a rear disc equipped frame.

    Thanks.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/VAN-DESSEL-BUZZ-...QQcmdZViewItem

    http://cgi.ebay.com/2005-Dean-Titani...QQcmdZViewItem

    Maybe??? - http://cgi.ebay.com/05-Gary-Fisher-2...QQcmdZViewItem

    TF
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  7. #7
    What'd I do?
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    That would work.

    Or a disc brake cross frame with an eno hub. Shoulda thoughta that.

  8. #8
    NeoRetroGrouch
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverStuffed
    That would work.

    Or a disc brake cross frame with an eno hub. Shoulda thoughta that.
    I would think that with an ENO (or any system where the caliper mount doesn't move with the rotor), it would be very difficult to keep the caliper/rotor in adjustment. - TF
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  9. #9
    What'd I do?
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    Indeed. I knew I was smarter than I thought I wasn't.

  10. #10
    soy un perdedor
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    White industries also makes an eccentric disc brake caliper adapter to go with their eccentric hub. So if you had a vert dropout frame and really wanted a disc SS/fixed, you could make it work. EBB or paragon sliders are a much more elegant solution.

  11. #11
    soy un perdedor
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketDog
    White industries also makes an eccentric disc brake caliper adapter to go with their eccentric hub. So if you had a vert dropout frame and really wanted a disc SS/fixed, you could make it work. EBB or paragon sliders are a much more elegant solution.
    Also, disc eno hubs are 135mm only AFAIK.

  12. #12
    FTM
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    Why not a front disc brake? Just need to get a new fork instead of a new frame. Could even set up your front end to have both a disc and a rim brake. A rear disc brake just sounds like added hassle and expense with little or no benefit.

  13. #13
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    That's what I thought, too. That's in another thread, though.

    http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?t=52085

  14. #14
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    good ideas, everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by Fixed
    Anyone make an off-the-shelf fixed frame with rear disc now? I can't seem to get the attention of custom builders (Vanilla) to do this for me.

    Spent last week in Palm Springs (80+ degrees -- poor me) riding up and down "Tram Way," a huge steep climb with corresponding descent, where I melted the Tufo glue strip out of my front tire/rim braking on the long descent. So, back in the market for a rear disc equipped frame.

    Thanks.
    Those are all good ideas, but I'm really looking for the most elegant solution. I'd like a rear disc that is designed in to the frame and hub. From what I can tell, it will require a custom make hub, and Phil Wood will make it. Not cheap, though. Vanilla shows what would be a perfect solution, but I can't get him to respond to my inquiries about it.

    Would prefer not to go the fork route, as it requires a much heavier fork than the 290 gram Easton carbon I can use with a rim brake on the front. Adding a disc to the rear triangle adds relatively little mass, plus it allows using the rear as a drag brake down long descents, keeping the front nice and cool for quicker slowing, if necessary. This is for a bike I intend to use for timed events, to weight is an issue, even if not a huge issue.

    Bottom line is that I like to do things the most elegant and least kludgey way I can. Designing the rear disc into the frame is nearly perfect, as far as I can tell; we just need someone to make it.

    Thanks again. Looks like custom is the only way to go.
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  15. #15
    Windrider (Stubborn)
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    Try Dave Kirk

    I know he's done this on a geared frame....if anyone can do it, it would be him.

    http://www.kirkframeworks.com/photogallery3.htm

    The obvious problem is having a disc mounting that was movable horizontally in order to "center" the Disc in the braking assembly as you changed gears and therefor Wheel position in the dropouts. That's whey the eccentric BB seems to make the most sense.

    Talk to Dave, he's a really creative guy...and easy to work with. He'll also tell you if it can be done.

    Len



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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixed
    Bottom line is that I like to do things the most elegant and least kludgey way I can. Designing the rear disc into the frame is nearly perfect, as far as I can tell; we just need someone to make it.
    Trek has a new bike, either the Portland or the Soho, which mounts the disc caliper between the seat and chain stays. It's not the traditional location, but I thought it was a nice look that cleaned the lines of theseat stay.

  17. #17
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    thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by PdxMark
    Trek has a new bike, either the Portland or the Soho, which mounts the disc caliper between the seat and chain stays. It's not the traditional location, but I thought it was a nice look that cleaned the lines of theseat stay.
    Just checked those out. Look good, for multispeeds. I like the brake mounted forward of the seat stay.

    Just got an email reply from Sacha, suggesting an eccentric bb with a vertical drop out rear (as others had suggested, as well). I'm wondering, though -- how do you chain the rear tire and/or adjust chain tension on the road? Can someone explain how the eccentric bb works? Thanks.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixed
    Just got an email reply from Sacha, suggesting an eccentric bb with a vertical drop out rear (as others had suggested, as well). I'm wondering, though -- how do you chain the rear tire and/or adjust chain tension on the road? Can someone explain how the eccentric bb works? Thanks.
    One of those Treks, the Soho, I think, has an eccentric bb to convert the multi-gear beast to a singlespeed vixen. The ecentric bb on the Soho works much like your erstwhile eccentric ENO hub, except that it's the bb that is eccentric in an oversized bb shell. I think that the larger diameter of the bb, in comparison to an eccentric hub, gives a much great range of horizontal travel than the ENO hub can give.

    In some arrangements, adapted from tandems, I think, the bb shell is actually split all along the bottom and bolted back together to tighten the shell around the eccentric bb. I didn't want that version on my Vanilla, which I initially wanted to make fixed w/ discs, because I thought that the relatively frequent tightening/loosening of the bb shell for fixie use would eventually fatigue the shell. In contrast, the shell in tandem usage would only rarely be loosened/tightened when the capt/stocker driver trains were ganged together, so the split bb seems fine for tandems. I bailed on the discs for my Vanilla and went with cantis.

    But that Trek Soho has another sort of eccetric bb, which doesn't require the bb shell to be split. There's a bolt on the side plate of the bb that somehow tightens the bb in the shell. I don't know what surface the tightening bears against, so I don't know how it would hold up to fixie usage, but it does seem to solve the problem of fatiguing a split bb shell every time you remove the rear wheel.

  19. #19
    FTM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixed
    Just checked those out. Look good, for multispeeds. I like the brake mounted forward of the seat stay.

    Just got an email reply from Sacha, suggesting an eccentric bb with a vertical drop out rear (as others had suggested, as well). I'm wondering, though -- how do you chain the rear tire and/or adjust chain tension on the road? Can someone explain how the eccentric bb works? Thanks.
    By adding extra weight to your BB.
    check here for details.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTM
    By adding extra weight to your BB.
    check here for details.
    That's a great link...

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by OverStuffed
    You can try a 29" mountain bike, but the top tubes are longer than on a road bike, so sizing may be a problem. The Kona Unit 2-9 has sliding dropouts, and the Karate Monkey and the Soma Juice have fork ends with disc mounts.

    A more obvious solution for the immediate problem: get a set of clincher wheels for rides like that. Probably easier and cheaper than a new bike. You could also just add a rear brake to distribute the braking power a little better.
    I Was just going to mention the Unit 29. Interesting point here, my buddy owns the actual frame from the catalog photo's. After looking at it your going to have a had time spacing the chainring/crank to work with the ultra wide chainline a SS disc hub uses. Youd probably need a 113mm BB to make it work. Would look cool as hell though!
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  22. #22
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    concern

    Quote Originally Posted by PdxMark
    One of those Treks, the Soho, I think, has an eccentric bb to convert the multi-gear beast to a singlespeed vixen. The ecentric bb on the Soho works much like your erstwhile eccentric ENO hub, except that it's the bb that is eccentric in an oversized bb shell. I think that the larger diameter of the bb, in comparison to an eccentric hub, gives a much great range of horizontal travel than the ENO hub can give.

    In some arrangements, adapted from tandems, I think, the bb shell is actually split all along the bottom and bolted back together to tighten the shell around the eccentric bb. I didn't want that version on my Vanilla, which I initially wanted to make fixed w/ discs, because I thought that the relatively frequent tightening/loosening of the bb shell for fixie use would eventually fatigue the shell. In contrast, the shell in tandem usage would only rarely be loosened/tightened when the capt/stocker driver trains were ganged together, so the split bb seems fine for tandems. I bailed on the discs for my Vanilla and went with cantis.

    But that Trek Soho has another sort of eccetric bb, which doesn't require the bb shell to be split. There's a bolt on the side plate of the bb that somehow tightens the bb in the shell. I don't know what surface the tightening bears against, so I don't know how it would hold up to fixie usage, but it does seem to solve the problem of fatiguing a split bb shell every time you remove the rear wheel.
    That seems ok, but I'd be concerned with the extreme torque put on the bb the way I ride the fixed bike. Not that I'm a Marty Nothstein or anything, but I ride up long, very steep, grades out of the saddle mashing at 20 rpms with all my might. A bb and shell is going to have to be as strong and reliable as possible under those conditions. Splitting the shell, as you discuss, sounds like a recipe for either disaster or at least creaking or creeping out of position.

    I thought that once I saw what was a normal track end fixed frame, but with provisions for a disc brake that were elongated, so that the brake could be adjusted with the axle. Maybe there's a drawback to that I'm not aware of.

    It doesn't seem like this should be so difficult. Maybe I should just learn how to make my own and then go into production. ;-)
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixed
    That seems ok, but I'd be concerned with the extreme torque put on the bb the way I ride the fixed bike. Not that I'm a Marty Nothstein or anything, but I ride up long, very steep, grades out of the saddle mashing at 20 rpms with all my might. A bb and shell is going to have to be as strong and reliable as possible under those conditions. Splitting the shell, as you discuss, sounds like a recipe for either disaster or at least creaking or creeping out of position.

    I thought that once I saw what was a normal track end fixed frame, but with provisions for a disc brake that were elongated, so that the brake could be adjusted with the axle. Maybe there's a drawback to that I'm not aware of.

    It doesn't seem like this should be so difficult. Maybe I should just learn how to make my own and then go into production. ;-)
    I think the drawback would be that you would have to re-adjust your calipers every time you loosen the rear wheel. No problem if that's once per season, but real pain if it's once per week. - TF
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  24. #24
    FTM
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixed
    I thought that once I saw what was a normal track end fixed frame, but with provisions for a disc brake that were elongated, so that the brake could be adjusted with the axle. Maybe there's a drawback to that I'm not aware of.
    like this?

    Surley Karate Monkey. It's a tank.

    Check out these ends from Paragon Machine Works

    They would be my solution if I were having a custom frame built and needed rear disc brake.

    Personally, I hate having any brake on my rear wheel (don't like the pedal feedback) so I would opt for keeping my frame and putting disc and calipers on my front wheel.

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