Aero advantages are lost in cross winds - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloKilo7 View Post
    it seems every person I have talked to says their aerobikes are worse than their climbing bikes when wind increases.
    Depends on which way the wind is blowing. Headwind? Definitely faster. Tailwind? Definitely faster. Y're just putting out your own BS.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    Depends on which way the wind is blowing. Headwind? Definitely faster. Tailwind? Definitely faster. Y're just putting out your own BS.
    There are 360 degrees of vector attacks the wind can take. I will give you a generous 20 degrees on the front and rear in assumed benefit. That leaves 320 degrees of wind vectors that have a negative vector on the bike frame/wheels.

    Let me guess, you never took analytical geometry nor physics in college, didn't you ?

  3. #28
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    Let me guess, you got your assos kicked on the playground a lot when you were in grade school, didn't you?
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloKilo7 View Post
    Sorry if I came off wrong. I just do not understand how someone can acknowledge that there are forces acting upon the side profile of the frame/wheels (ie a vector force that is perpendicular to the desired linear vector) without there being a penalty that will offset any aero gain? Seems like simple science. It is a higher form of friction on the frame (from the crosswind). I googled this, and the bike makers seem to do a lot of double talking on the issue of crosswinds. Meanwhile, as I gather information, it seems every person I have talked to says their aerobikes are worse than their climbing bikes when wind increases. My own experience with flat bladed spokes also indicates this. Which leads me to conclude aero hype has over take common sense.
    Perhaps you should consider what is known about aerodynamics, and blend that in with how sailboats work. Side winds, when hitting the sail, propel the boat forward. This is because (due to the large keel) the boat is anchored in the water, just like your wheels are anchored on the road. These things are well studied and well known. Side winds are not as simple as vectors, though that can be a starting point to understanding.

    "Seems like simple science" doesn't reflect a deep knowledge of the topic.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloKilo7 View Post
    There are 360 degrees of vector attacks the wind can take. I will give you a generous 20 degrees on the front and rear in assumed benefit. That leaves 320 degrees of wind vectors that have a negative vector on the bike frame/wheels.

    Let me guess, you never took analytical geometry nor physics in college, didn't you ?
    I did. I also had a ton of statistics classes. It would only take the first week of 101 to identify confirmation bias in your methodology though, or a lack of sample size.

    It also doesn't take college level courses to identify the lack of scientific method either. I'm thinking somewhere around the 4th-5th grade mark.

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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    I did. I also had a ton of statistics classes. It would only take the first week of 101 to identify confirmation bias in your methodology though, or a lack of sample size.

    It also doesn't take college level courses to identify the lack of scientific method either. I'm thinking somewhere around the 4th-5th grade mark.

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    Omg, you took an elementary statistics class! NOW --go take a few physics classes, and then maybe you will be able to understand why the engineer below has shown that the bike industry is just a propaganda machine spewing lies (ie the bike industry LIE that truncated airfoils are as efficient as full airfoils, OR better yet, the LIE that crosswinds don't render aerodesign useless)

    Might be hard for non-science majors to understand, but listen carefully starting at minute 6:30... basically he shows that past roughly 11 degrees, aero design are USELESS, and actually become WORSE than a simple round tube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqX3juRttP4
    Last edited by KiloKilo7; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:05 PM.

  7. #32
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    OMG, who was the big, bad person who hit Kilokilo7 with negative rep?
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  8. #33
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    Might be hard for non-science majors to understand, but listen carefully starting at minute 6:30... basically he shows that crosswinds at roughly 11 degrees render aero design USELESS, and actually become WORSE than a simple round tube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqX3juRttP4
    Last edited by KiloKilo7; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:11 PM.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloKilo7 View Post
    Might be hard for non-science majors to understand, but listen carefully starting at minute 6:30... basically he shows that past roughly 11 degrees, aero design are USELESS, and actually become WORSE than a simple round tube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqX3juRttP4
    Who the f--k is Hambini Engineering?

    Are you an anti-vaxxer too?
    "If someone needs 200 rolls of toilet paper for a 14-day quarantine, they probably should have made a doctor's appointment way before the COVID-19 outbreak." -- Unknown

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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Who the f--k is Hambini Engineering?

    Are you an anti-vaxxer too?
    Do your own research, watch the videos, he is a super highly respected engineer. BEST part is that he documents everything with published research. So if you think he is lying you can just prove his math wrong... you did take calculus and engineering didn't you? Oh, wait, you are one of those people that believe the bike companies would never hype anything, hahahahahahah, tell me how many years in a ROW bike companies tell us their new frames are 10 percent stiffer..... hahahahaha
    Last edited by KiloKilo7; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:35 PM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Perhaps you should consider what is known about aerodynamics, and blend that in with how sailboats work. Side winds, when hitting the sail, propel the boat forward. This is because (due to the large keel) the boat is anchored in the water, just like your wheels are anchored on the road. These things are well studied and well known. Side winds are not as simple as vectors, though that can be a starting point to understanding.

    "Seems like simple science" doesn't reflect a deep knowledge of the topic.
    An idiot will believe rubbish like your sailboat nonsense, a person seeking truth will watch this video and come to understand why what you say is a lie:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqX3juRttP4

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloKilo7 View Post
    Do your own research, watch the videos, he is a super highly respected engineer. BEST part is that he documents everything with published research. So if you think he is lying you can just prove his math wrong... you did take calculus and engineering didn't you? Oh, wait, you are one of those people that believe the bike companies would nevery hype anything, hahahahahahah, tell me how many years in a ROW bike companies tell us their new frames are 10 percent stiffer..... hahahahaha
    Take a pill, dude.

    Do you know a guy named Waspinator?
    "If someone needs 200 rolls of toilet paper for a 14-day quarantine, they probably should have made a doctor's appointment way before the COVID-19 outbreak." -- Unknown

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.




  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloKilo7 View Post
    Omg, you took an elementary statistics class! NOW --go take a few physics classes, and then maybe you will be able to understand why the engineer below has shown that the bike industry is just a propaganda machine spewing lies (ie the bike industry LIE that truncated airfoils are as efficient as full airfoils, OR better yet, the LIE that crosswinds don't render aerodesign useless)

    Might be hard for non-science majors to understand, but listen carefully starting at minute 6:30... basically he shows that past roughly 11 degrees, aero design are USELESS, and actually become WORSE than a simple round tube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqX3juRttP4
    I have economics and engineering science degrees. I took both, extensively. My previous comment stands. If you were presented with different opinion or evidence, of which there is both, you'd ignore it.



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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloKilo7 View Post
    Let me guess, you never took analytical geometry nor physics in college, didn't you ?
    guessing you avoided English classes...
    Ancient Astronaut theorists say, 'YES!'

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloKilo7 View Post
    Do your own research, watch the videos, he is a super highly respected engineer.
    By whom? Certainly no one I respect.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Do you often shout at clouds when you're outside?
    Every time I ride into a headwind.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloKilo7 View Post
    An idiot will believe rubbish like your sailboat nonsense, a person seeking truth will watch this video and come to understand why what you say is a lie:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqX3juRttP4
    You keep posting this video like it's your religion. Get a life.
    "If someone needs 200 rolls of toilet paper for a 14-day quarantine, they probably should have made a doctor's appointment way before the COVID-19 outbreak." -- Unknown

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.




  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloKilo7 View Post
    Might be hard for non-science majors to understand, but listen carefully starting at minute 6:30... basically he shows that crosswinds at roughly 11 degrees render aero design USELESS, and actually become WORSE than a simple round tube.
    You left out the part starting at 8:10, where he states the vast majority of riding involves angles between ±7 degrees, where aero tubes are more efficient.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloKilo7 View Post
    An idiot will believe rubbish like your sailboat nonsense, a person seeking truth will watch this video and come to understand why what you say is a lie:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqX3juRttP4
    Sailboat nonsense? Rubbish? You are embarrassing yourself. I explained how sailboats work in cross winds. Are you denying this well-known science? Believe it or not, a lot has been published on the topic. You should try reading the peer-reviewed literature instead of attacking those who try to explain things to you.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    You left out the part starting at 8:10, where he states the vast majority of riding involves angles between ±7 degrees, where aero tubes are more efficient.
    Don't try to confuse him with facts. His mind is made up. You're just harshing his mellow.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Don't try to confuse him with facts. His mind is made up. You're just harshing his mellow.
    Facts? Kilokilo is not interested in facts, he's really only interested in pontificating. You know that old saying:

    If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts. If you have the law on your side, pound the law. If you have neither on your side, pound the table. Right now I have a feeling Kilokilo's wrist is getting quite sore.
    "If someone needs 200 rolls of toilet paper for a 14-day quarantine, they probably should have made a doctor's appointment way before the COVID-19 outbreak." -- Unknown

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.




  22. #47
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    It's funny that he keeps asking people of they've taken physics, when physics classes barely touch on fluid dynamics. Even the two fluids courses I took would gave a very rough premise to base this analysis on, you really need an aero eng degree at minimum to have a class that would cover this in any worthwhile way. OP very obviously has only ever looked at a university before

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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    OP very obviously has only ever looked at a university before Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
    He looked at the University syllabus. It was all he required for deep knowledge. Lolz.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    He looked at the University syllabus. It was all he required for deep knowledge. Lolz.
    Dunning-Kruger Effect.

  25. #50
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Dunning-Kruger Effect.
    Exactly. Again.
    #promechaniclife

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