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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    The point of my question is when the whole group succumbs to age and become "equal" again, as far as strength and speed, what then, e-bikes or drag out the conventional bikes again.
    Sure, the group could just go at 12-15 mph pace in easy gears. Old riders around here have been doing that for years.

    Well, see, the trouble is in the hills. Old folks usually put on weight while they lose strength and endurance. Gravity becomes a real enemy. The motor assist makes it possible for them to finish the ride. Better than staying home.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    The point of my question is when the whole group succumbs to age and become "equal" again, as far as strength and speed, what then, e-bikes or drag out the conventional bikes again.
    Perhaps if your group is closed off to newbies.
    The group I ride with recently got a young buck who's still in college riding with us. He's a blast and really eager to learn and take input. And our oldest guys are upper 60's. I honestly hope they consider an e-bike in the coming years to keep riding with the young'ns.
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Perhaps if your group is closed off to newbies.
    The group I ride with recently got a young buck who's still in college riding with us. He's a blast and really eager to learn and take input. And our oldest guys are upper 60's. I honestly hope they consider an e-bike in the coming years to keep riding with the young'ns.
    60's is nothing. I know people in their 70's and a couple in their 80's who ride and an e-bike is not in their near future.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    60's is nothing. I know people in their 70's and a couple in their 80's who ride and an e-bike is not in their near future.
    No, but they're not keeping up in the A group ride.
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    No, but they're not keeping up in the A group ride.
    No one on a (legal) e-bike is keeping up with the A group....

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    The point of my question is when the whole group succumbs to age and become "equal" again, as far as strength and speed, what then, e-bikes or drag out the conventional bikes again.
    That'll be when we're dead.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    No, but they're not keeping up in the A group ride.
    Ha! I was never able to keep up with the A group. The B group is the best I'll ever do when I'm in shape, the C+ when I'm out of shape. In these groups, there are some pretty strong older riders although they do lag on the hills.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    That'll be when we're dead.
    I've heard it said that you know you're getting old when the only exercise you get is being Pallbearer at your friends funerals.
    Too old to ride plastic

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    I've heard it said that you know you're getting old when the only exercise you get is being Pallbearer at your friends funerals.
    You know you're getting old when doing anything hurts and if it doesn't hurt, it doesn't work.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  10. #160
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    Screw all the nay-sayers. An e-bike is the only way my wife can get out there and enjoy the ride. She used to ride her Tarmac until her neck get jacked in a car accident. Now she asks me every time we ride, “did I tell you how much I love my bike?” There’s no way she’d be able to keep up let alone go more then 10-15 miles. Now we do 30+ all the time. She’s in way better shape now since riding the e-bike than she was before.

    I guess it’s all in how you decide to use the tool.

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Is exercise really connected with a-fib? I'm thinking that riding is what's kept him alive.
    this is a theory which is not well established, I'll grant. However there does seem to be a phenomenon of really strong and champion racers/lifelong enthusiasts who later develop debilitating Atrial fibrillation. While the cycling helps keep the blood vessels clear and risk of stroke and heart attack down, it certainly doesn't seem to help prevent Afib, and more likely contributes to the severity of Afib many suspect. Afib is a completely different problem than CVD.


    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitnes...oo-hard-335700

    https://www.roadbikerider.com/a-prim...brillation-d2/

    The incidence of atrial fibrillation is 2-10 times higher in athletes participating in extreme endurance sports, and this increases as they age. The possible mechanisms explaining this association remains speculative, however, some possible explanations include increased atrial size, bradycardia (low pulse rate), inflammatory changes and ectopic beats (small variations in the normal heartbeat causing an irregular pulse).
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    this is a theory which is not well established, I'll grant. However there does seem to be a phenomenon of really strong and champion racers/lifelong enthusiasts who later develop debilitating Atrial fibrillation. While the cycling helps keep the blood vessels clear and risk of stroke and heart attack down, it certainly doesn't seem to help prevent Afib, and more likely contributes to the severity of Afib many suspect. Afib is a completely different problem than CVD.


    https://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitnes...oo-hard-335700

    https://www.roadbikerider.com/a-prim...brillation-d2/
    Thanks. BC, great post, and Lombard, good question. The rub here is the volume of training. For world class cyclists the volume is massive. But more importantly, everyone’s physiology is unique. Benefits vs damages will vary by person and the variation can be dramatic. I hate to sound like a PSA but talk to your doc about cycling. Try to let them understand the volume of work you do and talk openly about the many downsides of cycling. They are concerned with your quantity and quality of life, not your cycling goals. Considering their recommendations would be healthy, even if I don’t really do that... we age. We decline. We die. We are human. I think that no one needs to worry about training load. Sh*t is what it is. Do what you love. Live like love matters. Take control of the two inputs you can control... What you put in your mouth and what you put in your head...
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    60's is nothing. I know people in their 70's and a couple in their 80's who ride and an e-bike is not in their near future.
    Are you suggesting that the people you know in their 70's and 80's can still climb and keep up with their friends and family who may be in their 50's or lower?

    Or, are you saying that they are courteous enough not to ride with younger friends and family because they will hold them up significantly?

    Perhaps you're saying that these older folks don't give a sh!t and they see holding folks up as a way to reduce their fitness to his/her level?

    Finally, you could be saying that you only ride with folks with an 80 yo's level of fitness?

    I am fortunate as I've been healthy and able find the time to train hard enough to keep my fitness at a higher level than my skiing / riding partners.

    However, I also ride with several guys who were my nephews college friends--now in their mid 50's. I don't know how many of those guys I'll be able to keep up with climbing this season. Training gets a little more complicated each year.

    Ultimately, I too will be forced to make the choice between switching to an e-bike, quitting, or holding up the pace.

    I'm glad that my friends don't have insecurity issues. If they did, I would have chosen poorly--perhaps from this forum!

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfinguru View Post
    Screw all the nay-sayers. An e-bike is the only way my wife can get out there and enjoy the ride. She used to ride her Tarmac until her neck get jacked in a car accident. Now she asks me every time we ride, “did I tell you how much I love my bike?” There’s no way she’d be able to keep up let alone go more then 10-15 miles. Now we do 30+ all the time. She’s in way better shape now since riding the e-bike than she was before.

    I guess it’s all in how you decide to use the tool.
    Just a guess, but if a medical professional were asked would it be better to not exercise or do so on a bicycle with a battery, the later would prevail.

    Candidly I am going to resist as long as possible the battery but honestly at 70 those days are limited.

    In the town in Spain I am immigrating to, the seniors (>50) are rapidly shifting over to ebikes, in part because their health care system is very proactive and undoubtedly would answer the question about --- "just do it (exercise)".
    I am 100% convinced the internet and social media are not the salvation to human civility.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfinguru View Post
    Screw all the nay-sayers. An e-bike is the only way my wife can get out there and enjoy the ride. She used to ride her Tarmac until her neck get jacked in a car accident. Now she asks me every time we ride, “did I tell you how much I love my bike?” There’s no way she’d be able to keep up let alone go more then 10-15 miles. Now we do 30+ all the time. She’s in way better shape now since riding the e-bike than she was before.

    I guess it’s all in how you decide to use the tool.
    Those of us that have posted somewhat negative comments have not been critical of those who are much older or have a medical condition getting an e-bike. The OP stated that he was a healthy, young-ish person who wanted a high-end racing style e-bike because he didn't want to have to train a lot. Some of us thought that was a bad reason to get an e-bike. That is far different from someone with a condition that would prevent them from riding otherwise using a e-bike

  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    Those of us that have posted somewhat negative comments have not been critical of those who are much older or have a medical condition getting an e-bike. The OP stated that he was a healthy, young-ish person who wanted a high-end racing style e-bike because he didn't want to have to train a lot. Some of us thought that was a bad reason to get an e-bike. That is far different from someone with a condition that would prevent them from riding otherwise using a e-bike
    By chance, do you work for MSNBC or CNN? Your quoting skills mimic their technique for both text and context (15% accurate and 85% misleading).

    “Something like a Pinarello Nitro or Bianchi Aria Eroad or Focus Paralane ,something that turn heads”
    “It's not that I can't do it anymore ,it's just recovery times are becoming a true issue and when I push it a bit because I feel good my body feels hammered for 2/3 days”.


    Note that all of the companies named make mid range endurance bikes.

    One of the reasons (perhaps the main reason) is in bold above.

    Who knows, he may have a real job and can't afford to feel hammered for 2/3 days after his rides. Perhaps he likes his wife and kids and doesn't want to spend all of his limited free time riding and recovering.

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    By chance, do you work for MSNBC or CNN? Your quoting skills mimic their technique for both text and context (15% accurate and 85% misleading).

    “Something like a Pinarello Nitro or Bianchi Aria Eroad or Focus Paralane ,something that turn heads”
    “It's not that I can't do it anymore ,it's just recovery times are becoming a true issue and when I push it a bit because I feel good my body feels hammered for 2/3 days”.


    Note that all of the companies named make mid range endurance bikes.

    One of the reasons (perhaps the main reason) is in bold above.

    Who knows, he may have a real job and can't afford to feel hammered for 2/3 days after his rides. Perhaps he likes his wife and kids and doesn't want to spend all of his limited free time riding and recovering.
    What about this?

    E-bikes: Not just for grown-ups anymore


    Photo: Orbea

    The lightest e-bike on the market just happens to be for kids. Orbea’s eMX weighs just 15.5 kilograms (about 34 pounds) and is intended for kids ages 6 to 10. The Enough Energy concept battery gives the rider the power he or she needs, nothing more. That keeps the size small and the bike light. The motor is in the hub and won’t overwhelm pedaling the way an adult e-bike motor can. And an iWoc Trio controller allows you to adjust the assist level. There’s even an app you can use to track rides and routes. All of that is combined with many of the features you’d expect from a kids’ bike, like alloy components and a 1X drivetrain. Now you can take your kiddo mountain biking with you, and she’ll have the extra kick to stay on your wheel up the steep climbs.

    https://www.velonews.com/2019/03/new...ram-dub_489716
    Too old to ride plastic

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    Are you suggesting that the people you know in their 70's and 80's can still climb and keep up with their friends and family who may be in their 50's or lower?
    I do know riders in their 70's who can hold their own with riders in their 50's.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    Perhaps you're saying that these older folks don't give a sh!t and they see holding folks up as a way to reduce their fitness to his/her level?
    Wrong. When this happens, they move down to the next level, period.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    Finally, you could be saying that you only ride with folks with an 80 yo's level of fitness?
    Where did this one come from? What do you define as an 80 yo's fitness level?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    I am fortunate as I've been healthy and able find the time to train hard enough to keep my fitness at a higher level than my skiing / riding partners.
    Good for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    However, I also ride with several guys who were my nephews college friends--now in their mid 50's. I don't know how many of those guys I'll be able to keep up with climbing this season. Training gets a little more complicated each year.

    Ultimately, I too will be forced to make the choice between switching to an e-bike, quitting, or holding up the pace.
    No, you just step down to the next group riding level. Why the heck would you quit?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    I'm glad that my friends don't have insecurity issues. If they did, I would have chosen poorly--perhaps from this forum!
    Reading between the lines of your post, it sure doesn't sound like your friends are the ones who have insecurity issues.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I do know riders in their 70's who can hold their own with riders in their 50's.



    Wrong. When this happens, they move down to the next level, period.



    Where did this one come from? What do you define as an 80 yo's fitness level?



    Good for you.



    No, you just step down to the next group riding level. Why the heck would you quit?



    Reading between the lines of your post, it sure doesn't sound like your friends are the ones who have insecurity issues.
    The kind of group riding you're talking about is for those who have no group of long term riding friends. Those who do are not about to kick them aside for some other random (lower) group.

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    Those of us that have posted somewhat negative comments have not been critical of those who are much older or have a medical condition getting an e-bike. The OP stated that he was a healthy, young-ish person who wanted a high-end racing style e-bike because he didn't want to have to train a lot. Some of us thought that was a bad reason to get an e-bike. That is far different from someone with a condition that would prevent them from riding otherwise using a e-bike
    Any reason that gets people out riding a bike is a good reason. Regardless of if the bike has pedal assist or not.

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by masont View Post
    Any reason that gets people out riding a bike is a good reason. Regardless of if the bike has pedal assist or not.
    True.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by masont View Post
    Any reason that gets people out riding a bike is a good reason. Regardless of if the bike has pedal assist or not.
    Healthcare providers would agree with you.
    I am 100% convinced the internet and social media are not the salvation to human civility.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutmd View Post
    Healthcare providers would agree with you.
    You would think cyclists would too, wouldn't you?

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    What about this?

    E-bikes: Not just for grown-ups anymore


    Photo: Orbea

    The lightest e-bike on the market just happens to be for kids. Orbea’s eMX weighs just 15.5 kilograms (about 34 pounds) and is intended for kids ages 6 to 10. The Enough Energy concept battery gives the rider the power he or she needs, nothing more. That keeps the size small and the bike light. The motor is in the hub and won’t overwhelm pedaling the way an adult e-bike motor can. And an iWoc Trio controller allows you to adjust the assist level. There’s even an app you can use to track rides and routes. All of that is combined with many of the features you’d expect from a kids’ bike, like alloy components and a 1X drivetrain. Now you can take your kiddo mountain biking with you, and she’ll have the extra kick to stay on your wheel up the steep climbs.

    https://www.velonews.com/2019/03/new...ram-dub_489716

    This is more about the pervasive lack of parenting skills than cycling. While it potentially could play a positive role in a handicapped kids development, I can see nothing positive about it for average children.

    It seems to me to be a part of the obsession to deny children their right to fail--to grant success without the inconvenience of a propotional amount of effort. It's a perverse trend that that had its' roots in the 60's and has reached epidemic levels in the last few years.

    My hope is that this will be the failure that it deserves to be--handicapped children notwithstanding.

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    This is more about the pervasive lack of parenting skills than cycling. While it potentially could play a positive role in a handicapped kids development, I can see nothing positive about it for average children.

    It seems to me to be a part of the obsession to deny children their right to fail--to grant success without the inconvenience of a propotional amount of effort. It's a perverse trend that that had its' roots in the 60's and has reached epidemic levels in the last few years.

    My hope is that this will be the failure that it deserves to be--handicapped children notwithstanding.
    I'd be fall on my ass surprised if it did fail; look at all the preschool children driving around in their battery powered cars and preteen kids on their electric skateboards.
    Too old to ride plastic

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