Campy Asks, "Why Don't You Love Me No 'Mo?" - Page 3

View Poll Results: Will Campagnolo Survive?

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  • Yes... Campy will reign supreme in the future!

    16 44.44%
  • No... Campy is already dead to me.

    12 33.33%
  • What is this "Campy" you spake of?

    8 22.22%
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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mapei View Post
    I'm totally out of the component chase and I'd certainly give Shimano or SRAM a try if I had the notion, but I've always loved the way Campy looked and how it operates.

    My early Seventies era down tube Nuovo Record shift levers had a precision and feel that made other groups feel Third World. Yeah, the Nuovo Record brakes needed the grip of a blacksmith to get any braking action but I was plenty strong from playing a Martin D28 with a twisted neck.

    When brake lever shifting became the norm I preferred Campy even more. The clicks were both music to my ears and an unequivocal message that indeed the mechanism had done what I requested. I could go from the tiniest cog to the largest one in a couple swipes. The thumb shifter was a nano-second away. The pressure needed to operate the machinery felt luxurious and direct, not something that made me feel as if I were launching a paper airplane in the general direction of surly subordinates. The Campy levers may have looked bare bones, but they were very comfortable in my hands.

    Admittedly, I have no idea as to the smoothness of the other companies' hubs but the axle bearings of my Campy Zondas are like butter.
    Well I can tell you Campy has no equal in bearings, except maybe Phi Wood. We used to spin wheels in our hands at the shop. The sealed bearings all had plastic bushings to keep out water and road dirt. They were small, non adjustable, didn't take fresh grease, and the whole package is press fit into the hubs. They never felt as solid as the cup and cone hubs and always stopped spinning sooner. Campy would spin forever, wheel hubs, and cranks. Like butter. You could stand up on the crank, it would still feel like butter.

    Never wore out a Campy BB, or 6 hubs, two sets of brakes, or for that matter shift levers and pedals except in crashes, or a chromed steel headset still smooth at 75,000 miles. At one time, racers would change frames every year, but keep the components for several years. Campy was that good. Therefore easier to work on. You never have to wonder when the nuts are tight or if you're about to strip out the threads.

    Maynard Ferguson used to write about how well Campy brake hoods fit his hands and how stiff and precise those flat shift levers worked in the fingers, and how the bearings never wore out, decrying lust for the latest high tech as being surprisingly unsatisfying.

    Shimano Dura Ace never inspired poetry with any of my buddies. They rode it because it was the top of the line and damnit they could afford it. They never talked about how great it was. They were just interested in not getting dropped. Shimano satisfies Japanese efficiency. Campagnolo is Italian opera.

  2. #52
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    This video captures what Campy is all about:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKwV...ature=youtu.be

    "In the bike world, Campagnolo is our jewel."

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Shimano satisfies Japanese efficiency. Campagnolo is Italian opera.
    What about Sram?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Maynard Ferguson used to write about how well Campy brake hoods fit his hands and how stiff and precise those flat shift levers worked in the fingers, and how the bearings never wore out, decrying lust for the latest high tech as being surprisingly unsatisfying.
    Strangest (and least relevant) celebrity endorsement of a bike component I've ever heard.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Shimano satisfies Japanese efficiency. Campagnolo is Italian opera.
    Campagnolo lasts 4 hours longer than anyone not a musicologist wants, screaming in an unintelligible language while being stabbed in the back?
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  6. #56
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    I have no argument against the mechanical design advantages of thumb buttons. My general dislike is ergonomic not mechanical. I guess if you are on the hoods most all the time they are fine, but I spend a good amount of time on the drops. When you are going hard or off the saddle I find the thumb button an annoyance. And, while the mechanical advantages may be significant, I have not experienced any real design limitations or malfunctions with my SRAM or Shimano groups. So, as an applied factor in deciding to ride thumb buttons, I wouldnít give up the ergonomic advantages of the less mechanically sound design. Is anyone having mechanical reasons to make the opposite choice, Iím interested to know?
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Campagnolo lasts 4 hours longer than anyone not a musicologist wants, screaming in an unintelligible language while being stabbed in the back?
    Be nice or I'll force you to listen to Gotterdammerung on endless repeat...
    Mapie is a conventional looking former Hollywood bon viveur, now leading a quiet life in a house made of wood by an isolated beach. He has cultivated a taste for culture, and is a celebrated raconteur amongst his local associates, who are artists, actors, and other leftfield/eccentric types. I imagine he has a telescope, and an unusual sculpture outside his front door. He is also a beach comber. The Rydster.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    I have no argument against the mechanical design advantages of thumb buttons. My general dislike is ergonomic not mechanical. I guess if you are on the hoods most all the time they are fine, but I spend a good amount of time on the drops. When you are going hard or off the saddle I find the thumb button an annoyance. And, while the mechanical advantages may be significant, I have not experienced any real design limitations or malfunctions with my SRAM or Shimano groups. So, as an applied factor in deciding to ride thumb buttons, I wouldnít give up the ergonomic advantages of the less mechanically sound design. Is anyone having mechanical reasons to make the opposite choice, Iím interested to know?
    You'd probably faint if you had to reach to the down tube to shift gears.
    Too old to ride plastic

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    Strangest (and least relevant) celebrity endorsement of a bike component I've ever heard.
    Well, ok, Maynard was somewhat of an outlier in the cycling community to shed a tear that an obsolete product just might have been better than what replaced it, but he did find Campy brake levers very comfortable in his hands, like Mapei above, and they never beat up my hands on long rides. Every time I ride the vintage DeRosa with those levers, I go, "Ah, very nice!"

    Then again, the Cane Creek aero levers "upgraded" on the commuter after a crash finally dinged up the Campy levers beyond repair, are more substantial and also work great, but I can't wrap my hands around them. I've always sooner or later had to grip the hoods like the horns on a bull, important when the legs are maxing out. Campy did those hoods really well, kudos to their engineers and the feedback loop from the pros. Clicks changed the game forever.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 04-10-2020 at 12:29 AM.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mapei View Post
    Be nice or I'll force you to listen to Gotterdammerung on endless repeat...
    Those pre-industrial Germans were a dour lot! Why is it the most pretentious classical radio hosts always play that as a major event? Is Mozart not serious enough? Is he "too Italian?"

    I sat through an entire Italian opera once at Lincoln Center when living in NY. Joan Sutherland sang authoritarian commentary on an unapproved love, and all the relatives added their arias. Watching a dramatic play with all the characters arguing and breaking into song was high entertainment in its day. That's all I know. But light opera is frequently where its at when out on the Italian Stallion. It's mostly due to the frisky steering angle, 25 mm tires, and exquisitely performing Campy components. Wagner fans wouldn't approve.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    You'd probably faint if you had to reach to the down tube to shift gears.
    I started riding in my early teens when non-indexed down tube shifting was all there was. I don't wish those days on any rider no matter how nostalgic down tube shifters may be. The only thing worse in my mind are chest-stabbing stem mounted shifters!

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoorInRichfield View Post
    I started riding in my early teens when non-indexed down tube shifting was all there was. I don't wish those days on any rider no matter how nostalgic down tube shifters may be. The only thing worse in my mind are chest-stabbing stem mounted shifters!
    I'm a fan of integrated brake/shift levers myownself, but there are still some strong cyclists out there riding down tube shifters. I can understand the disdain for down tube shifters while racing, but while out JRO or an informal group ride I just don't understand. Someone above mentioned not liking the Campagnolo thumb buttons while in the drops or standing. Shux, in the drops it's just a little stretch to the thumb lever and a down tube lever just calls for one to drop their hand , and there's the lever. And shifting while standing, that's pretty hard on a drivetrain and one would be better served shifting before standing, no matter the shifters.

    I also think that a lot of the hate for down tube shifters come from little experience with them. I can say that the feel of shifting a set of Simplex RetroFriction shifters is a joy.
    Too old to ride plastic

  13. #63
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    What is this Shim man o you speak of?

    At the very least Campagnolo lever rebuilds give you stuff to do during social isolation.
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    I also think that a lot of the hate for down tube shifters come from little experience with them. I can say that the feel of shifting a set of Simplex RetroFriction shifters is a joy.

    Dude, c'mon. You can't be serious with this?

    Troll on a bike?



    I'm an old fart and grew up with downtube friction shifters too.

    By today's standards, they are JUNK in every sense of the word. The only appeal is nostalgia, which in this case is just a romantic infatuation with OLD JUNK!
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    Dude, c'mon. You can't be serious with this?

    Troll on a bike?



    I'm an old fart and grew up with downtube friction shifters too.

    By today's standards, they are JUNK in every sense of the word. The only appeal is nostalgia, which in this case is just a romantic infatuation with OLD JUNK!
    You know what they say about opinions.
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    I'm a fan of integrated brake/shift levers myownself, but there are still some strong cyclists out there riding down tube shifters. I can understand the disdain for down tube shifters while racing, but while out JRO or an informal group ride I just don't understand. Someone above mentioned not liking the Campagnolo thumb buttons while in the drops or standing. Shux, in the drops it's just a little stretch to the thumb lever and a down tube lever just calls for one to drop their hand , and there's the lever. And shifting while standing, that's pretty hard on a drivetrain and one would be better served shifting before standing, no matter the shifters.

    I also think that a lot of the hate for down tube shifters come from little experience with them. I can say that the feel of shifting a set of Simplex RetroFriction shifters is a joy.
    I rode downtube shifters a ton in my teens and early 20s. Thatís all that there was, I rode the handlebar version also. They both worked and they both sucked compared to the newer options. Iíd rather start my car with a key than a crank for example. Just because there was time (well before mine) that a car was started with a crank doesnít make it anything other than a pretty dumb azz way to start a car if you can use a key? I am not frightened of downtube shifters. Itís just ridiculous at this point. As for sitting and standing and shifting at the same time, yes, Iím doing that. Often getting up or going down while changing to the gear that suits the change in grade and posture. Perhaps that partly a function of riding rolling terrain with short steep grades?

    I will ask again, because Iíd really like to know, is anyone experiencing performance or reliability problems with SRAM or Shimano groups? Does the improved Campy mechanical really make the product better? If the answer is yes, than there should be supporting evidence playing out in real conditions that the competition is inferior. That evidence would be poor mechanical function. Anyone? Anyone?
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  17. #67
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    Technically, Campy does some things better than others i.e Ultrashift and Ultratorque.

    But they can never achieve economies of scale or be cost competitive for the OEM market.

    I think they'll remain a niche product.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfischer1 View Post
    Technically, Campy does some things better than others i.e Ultrashift and Ultratorque.

    But they can never achieve economies of scale or be cost competitive for the OEM market.

    I think they'll remain a niche product.
    What is it about their product that prevents it from being produced on the same level as SRAM or even Shimano?

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    I rode downtube shifters a ton in my teens and early 20s. Thatís all that there was, I rode the handlebar version also. They both worked and they both sucked compared to the newer options. Iíd rather start my car with a key than a crank for example. Just because there was time (well before mine) that a car was started with a crank doesnít make it anything other than a pretty dumb azz way to start a car if you can use a key? I am not frightened of downtube shifters. Itís just ridiculous at this point. As for sitting and standing and shifting at the same time, yes, Iím doing that. Often getting up or going down while changing to the gear that suits the change in grade and posture. Perhaps that partly a function of riding rolling terrain with short steep grades?

    I will ask again, because Iíd really like to know, is anyone experiencing performance or reliability problems with SRAM or Shimano groups? Does the improved Campy mechanical really make the product better? If the answer is yes, than there should be supporting evidence playing out in real conditions that the competition is inferior. That evidence would be poor mechanical function. Anyone? Anyone?
    And some would rather use a key fob rather than a key, while others prefer a standard trans over an automatic. What is ridiculous is thinking that yours is the one true way. Google "rinko" to see a reason that a particular group of cyclists prefer downtube shifters. It's what works for their purposes.
    For petes sake you just built up a steel bike, a pretty archaic bicycle in this day and age, pretty ridiculous, at this point, with all the benefits that carbon brings to the table.

    As far as Campagnolo, SRAM or Shimano, they all make good groups, pick your poisin. Ain't no different than Ford, Chevy or Chrysler, they all have their followers.
    Too old to ride plastic

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfischer1 View Post
    Technically, Campy does some things better than others i.e Ultrashift and Ultratorque.

    But they can never achieve economies of scale or be cost competitive for the OEM market.

    I think they'll remain a niche product.
    Part of their appeal is that they are a niche product.
    Too old to ride plastic

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    I will ask again, because Iíd really like to know, is anyone experiencing performance or reliability problems with SRAM or Shimano groups?
    Well, in 10 years with di2 I have had my battery run out twice. Yes, I am a stupid fuc!tard and I can't blame anyone but myself, and that's probably over 30k miles. One time I could still use the rear shifter and rode home ~15 miles using the rear shifter, the other time everything died with about two miles to go. I did have a couple of 9 sp cables break or fray as well in the day, even though I was decent about doing maintenance.

    I run Shimano on my MTB and gravel as well, no problems there.

    When you say you're standing while shifting, does that include upshifting to the big ring? I have very limited exposure to other gruppos, but it works flawlessly with Shimano. I have the utmost confidence when doing so, and the price of failure could get ugly in that scenario.

    I'm a Shimano guy, and they've always served me well except for their planned obscelence. I replace my chains regularly, and as a general rule a cassette will last at least 4 chains. (Maybe 3 chains per MTB cassette) Read the instructions, set it, forget it. With minimal maintenance.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    I'm a fan of integrated brake/shift levers myownself, but there are still some strong cyclists out there riding down tube shifters. I can understand the disdain for down tube shifters while racing, but while out JRO or an informal group ride I just don't understand. Someone above mentioned not liking the Campagnolo thumb buttons while in the drops or standing. Shux, in the drops it's just a little stretch to the thumb lever and a down tube lever just calls for one to drop their hand , and there's the lever. And shifting while standing, that's pretty hard on a drivetrain and one would be better served shifting before standing, no matter the shifters.

    I also think that a lot of the hate for down tube shifters come from little experience with them. I can say that the feel of shifting a set of Simplex RetroFriction shifters is a joy.
    I agree with this. I have a couple of bikes with downtube shifting, and I've never felt hampered by them on my (non-race) rides. I can see where they'd be a limiting factor in races, but for my riding, not really.

    Heck, my downtube-shifting rides don't even index, and I don't particularly miss that, either.

    I also have a "modern" bike equipped with (Shimano) brake-lever/shifters, and they work great, too. Frankly, the only problem I'll have with shifting is when I've been riding one bike for awhile, and then spend a day on a different bike; sometimes I might absentmindedly reach down for downtube shifters that aren't there, or try to click brake levers that aren't "brifters."

    First-world problem, I know.
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    As far as Campagnolo, SRAM or Shimano, they all make good groups, pick your poisin. Ain't no different than Ford, Chevy or Chrysler, they all have their followers.
    Oh come on now, we've been through this already. When mentioning Italian, American and Japanese brands, you have to be consistent with car examples.

  24. #74
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    Did I already mention on this thread that I loved my Retro-Friction downtube shifters to distraction when I had them on my Gitane Tour de France, way back when?
    Mapie is a conventional looking former Hollywood bon viveur, now leading a quiet life in a house made of wood by an isolated beach. He has cultivated a taste for culture, and is a celebrated raconteur amongst his local associates, who are artists, actors, and other leftfield/eccentric types. I imagine he has a telescope, and an unusual sculpture outside his front door. He is also a beach comber. The Rydster.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mapei View Post
    Did I already mention on this thread that I loved my Retro-Friction downtube shifters to distraction when I had them on my Gitane Tour de France, way back when?
    Wonderful shifters.

    I've got a set on a mid 80's DeRosa with a Super Record group and anther set in storage, just because. And if I stumbled upon another set, at a good price, I'd probably pick them up too.
    Too old to ride plastic

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