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  1. #1
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    Ceramic Speed Chainless Drivetrain

    This looked like a neat concept. It doesn't even shift yet, but I like the application and think it will help eliminate the wheel building challenges presented by ever-increasing cassette sizes.

    Ghurarmu shirkush’ agh azgushu. Zant ya apakurizak. Gűl-n’ anakhizak.

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SauronHimself View Post
    This looked like a neat concept. It doesn't even shift yet, but I like the application and think it will help eliminate the wheel building challenges presented by ever-increasing cassette sizes.

    Could do a white paper on pro/con.
    But...one thing sticks out. Potential for injury. With current spring loaded chain drivelines, anything that gets caught between chain and sprocket has forgiveness because the chain will deflect by derailleur spring tension. Not so with this design. Anybody that gets a finger caught in this driveline front or rear would likely lose it...no degrees of freedom in the driveline.
    Just a comment. Maybe able to design around that but where it stands right now. A notable difference is, this 'hard point' driveline relies on compression and of course tolerance for lash not unlike a ring and pinion differential in a car, in this case for interface with front and rear sprocket which if exposed is more problematic to injury versus chain loaded tension of a conventional bicycle driveline which natively has more forgiveness as a chain will deflect.

    Not saying that another design won't exist in the future to supercede a bicycle chain in terms of driveline efficiency. There maybe one the horizon at some point. Of course we all know a chain is more efficient than a belt for example which are more prevalent say on cruiser motorcycles...deemed lower maintenance and even quieter and why they exist in spite of loss of efficiency.

    Basically a driveline has to do many things and efficiency is just one element. It can't cost or weigh too much. It can't be high maintenance. It can't hurt people relative to other options. It can't be too noisy. It has to have some level of versatility relative to gearing options. For example, change sprocket size in front and what happens to driveshaft length with this design? Off road it has to be relatively impervious to the elements. Many masters must be served and so far why the chain has stood the test of time because it serves so many so well.
    Last edited by 11spd; 07-13-2018 at 03:03 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Could do a white paper on pro/con.
    But...one thing sticks out. Potential for injury. With current spring loaded chain drivelines, anything that gets caught between chain and sprocket has forgiveness because the chain will deflect by derailleur spring tension. Not so with this design. Anybody that gets a finger caught in this driveline front or rear would likely lose it...no degrees of freedom in the driveline.
    That would explain why so many hipsters and track cyclist are missing fingers.

    Good point but by the time this catches on everyone will be using disc brakes so will probably just lose the whole limb anyway so what's a finger.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SauronHimself View Post
    This looked like a neat concept. It doesn't even shift yet, but I like the application and think it will help eliminate the wheel building challenges presented by ever-increasing cassette sizes.

    This seems like an awful lot of trouble to save a very small amount of friction. I think getting this to actually shift will be very challenging without damaging the "cassette"

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    This seems like an awful lot of trouble to save a very small amount of friction. I think getting this to actually shift will be very challenging without damaging the "cassette"
    Most certainly they are having challenges figuring it out. Or at least I'd assume that's why someone would show up at Eurobike to show off a 13 speed drive train that doesn't actually shift.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Most certainly they are having challenges figuring it out. Or at least I'd assume that's why someone would show up at Eurobike to show off a 13 speed drive train that doesn't actually shift.
    Makes total sense to spend 8 hours CNC machining the gear cluster....and not be able to use 12/13 of it.


    Of course this is CeramicSpeed...so "sense" is a rare exotic commodity likely to be impacted by tariffs.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Most certainly they are having challenges figuring it out. Or at least I'd assume that's why someone would show up at Eurobike to show off a 13 speed drive train that doesn't actually shift.
    Once they get it to shift I would to see Sagan take a test ride and see how how it would take him to shear off the teeth of the "cassette"

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    this ain't gonna get adopted if the big manufacturers like Shimano, SRAM, Campy, FSA, Specialized, Giant, Merida, don't go along. Chances of the bigs going along is zero to nil at this point. Good online entertainment discussion though.

    oh, and, those teeth on the chainring, looks like they are bent at 90 degrees, I think a big sprinter will break them easily, and those teeth look ugly as hell. Now, instead of sharp teeth, why don't they just use all bearings for the chainring?? That's right, just use all bearings, wouldn't it look cooler if the chainring is actually big metal plate containing a bunch bearings around the perimeter, and probably be safer too. Of course this would mean the chainring would now be more expensive, and with expense will mean people will not be able to afford to change chainring, but they won't need to since gear ratios can also be changed by either the cassette or the pinions.

    anyway just fun online discussion, this thing idea not going any where soon

  10. #10
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    Gear drives cannot exist in an open environment, like on this bike.. If they do, they'll need replacement on a constant basis.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
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  11. #11
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    As a mechanical engineer who works in the CNC machining field, I look at that 'gear cluster' (made out of probably 7075 aluminum), and can't imagine it actually holding up on a hard, out-of-the-saddle climb. No way that flimsy thing could handle the torque! For this thing to be viable, it would have to either be much thicker, or made out of steel. Both will increase the weigh, and the the thicker aluminum will, of course, require greater dish to the wheel.

    Once again, a 'revolutionary design' that will soon be relegated to the dustbin of cycling history.....
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    As a mechanical engineer who works in the CNC machining field, I look at that 'gear cluster' (made out of probably 7075 aluminum), and can't imagine it actually holding up on a hard, out-of-the-saddle climb. No way that flimsy thing could handle the torque! For this thing to be viable, it would have to either be much thicker, or made out of steel. Both will increase the weigh, and the the thicker aluminum will, of course, require greater dish to the wheel.

    Once again, a 'revolutionary design' that will soon be relegated to the dustbin of cycling history.....

    There's another problem...most of the time the driveshaft doesn't fully engage with the cogs.

    Think about it...as the driveshaft spins, it only ever fully engages with the cassette when for example a "knub" is at precisely 9'o'clock WRT bicycle vertical and there's a matching valley in the cassette in that timing...and then only a single knub fully interfaces with said valley. At any other time, the knub(s) do not fully engage into the cassette due to the circular motion of the drive shaft. The worst case being 22.5 degrees later (if the driveshaft has for example 8 knubs) when two knubs face the cassette but are at the their furthest from meshing with the cassette.


    Which makes me suspect their efficiency claims are wildly made up numbers. You cannot have high power transfer efficiency when the amount of engagement varies with what I suspect is a sine wave.
    "Refreshingly Unconcerned With The Vulgar Exigencies Of Veracity "

  13. #13
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    I would assume that the shaft motion is indexed, so that the spur gear (nubs) only go from one 'ring' to the next.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  14. #14
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    Here's the thing all you luddites are missing.

    You're supposed to pair this newfangled drive train with a newfangled replacement for the ancient and completely outdated and nonfunctional concept known as the seat.



    Put on your Futurist Cap for a minute and visualize the pedals and drive shaft for the newfangled drive train a short distance behind the rear wheel. Makes perfect sense.

    https://bikerumor.com/2014/06/03/dit...w-flying-bike/

  15. #15
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    Reminds me of an older "Revolutionary" concept. Biopace.
    You can't fix stupid.

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by frdfandc View Post
    Reminds me of an older "Revolutionary" concept. Biopace.
    My knees hurt just thinking about the "computer designed" biopace chainrings on my 1986 Shogun Prairie Breaker Pro, which I rode hard on trails until the early 90s.

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