Current Sram Etap vs upcoming etap 12 speed
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  1. #1
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    Current Sram Etap vs upcoming etap 12 speed

    Hey everyone.


    Thinking about finally putting etap on one of my road bikes (the other one has DA Di2).

    As all of you know, Sram will be releasing its 12 speed version in the very near future. However, right now, I can get what seemingly is a pretty good deal on the current etap upgrade system from a local guy. It's brand new, as he has decided to go a different route on his build. He is asking $925 for the new upgrade package. I am very tempted as that seems like a good price, even though I know the 12 speed is coming out. I've seen pictures of the new 12 speed setup...some minor cosmetic changes to derailleurs and shifters (don't really care about cranks or brakes as I don't plan on changing those) and of course the 10-28 cassette and likely other options 10-32? -36? I currently use 11-32 and 11-28 cassettes I don't feel like I really need the 10 (I prefer climbing much more than all out sprints).

    What are your thoughts? Is that price pretty good? Obviously, waiting on the 12 speed...I would have to likely pay closer to $1700-2000 I'm assuming (for the upgrade setup)?

    Thank you.
    EyeGuy

  2. #2
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    You'll need 12 speed compatible wheels (XD driver instead of Shimano splined freehub). As far as I know all of the cassettes will have the 10, and the chainrings will be correspondingly smaller. From what I've seen anyway.
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  3. #3
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    Wait until 12sp is released and then buy the discounted 11 speed?

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    I'm guessing you could resell the 11-speed setup for what you paid for it if you keep it in nice shape and decide that the 12-speed is a "must have" whenever it's available. I personally would go this route if I knew for sure the seller is selling me new parts.

    If the 12 speed only offers the advantage of 1 more gear, I think the question to ask is, "Is one more gear worth over $1k to me?" I'm sure that when the 12 speed is available, the reviews will says it's superior in every way to the 11 speed, but in the end, it's just one more gear (well, 2 gears if you run a two front chain rings.)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    Wait until 12sp is released and then buy the discounted 11 speed?
    Some other lucky cyclist would have already bought it by then.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the replies guys.

    Now seller is saying he is reconsidering selling the upgraded setup until the 12 speed comes out. Heís in the same boat I guess. Waiting to see more information about the 12 speed before making a final decision. Whatever I guess.

    Iím a little bummed, but at the same time okay with that. I was conflicted and now Iíll just play the wait and see.

    My other option is to piece together the latest U Di2 upgraded setup. I love my DA 9150 Di2 and just thought I try something different for my Ti bike.

    And @cxwrench is right...Iíll have to source new 12-speed compatible Wheelset. Not sure I really want to do that at this point.
    Last edited by Cni2i; 02-03-2019 at 09:19 PM.
    EyeGuy

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    11 speed Etap will get lots cheaper new when 12 speed comes out.

  8. #8
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    11 speed eTap is a mature system with most of the bugs worked out. It's the one thing that could probably sway me away from my vast collection of 10 speed SRAM parts.

    The real question is- what real advances will 12 speed offer you and your intended uses? Will SRAM still support 11 speed in the future? I'm speaking mainly of batteries and other consumables for the system, which look to me to be the only real expiration date. Is there going to be some incredible gearing option or other functional advancement that justifies it?

    At the end of the day, will 12 speed make your ride that much more enjoyable or the drivetrain's service life that much longer? For me, that's all that really matters. Then again, as I said, I'm still on 10 speed mechanical...

  9. #9
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    It's mainly differences in gearing. The new drivetrain has a 10t cog. The bike I have seen had quite different gearing compared to current 11 speed drivetrains. It's pretty much just adding another gear ratio. I don't think the batteries will change any time soon, so that's not an issue. If they do change SRAM will keep them in the supply line for quite some time. It's not going to change anything regarding the drivetrain service life. There won't be any crazy super wide range gearing options, that would involve a very long cage derailleur w/ a completely different range of motion. IIRC the bike I saw had a 10-28 cassette and the chainrings were something like 36-40something. Maybe 45 or 46...I can't remember.
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  10. #10
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    So I can't really see the advantage of the 12 speed at the moment, unless it's moving to a 1x setup. I sure hope they don't mess with the batteries in terms of compatibility, because that would leave a lot of drivetrains out there pretty much worthless.

    Upgrading just for the sake of having the latest stuff? Never saw the use in it.

  11. #11
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    Don't worry about the batteries, they're not going to cut off thousands of customers w/ 2-3 year old etap.
    As for upgrading...if you don't want to then don't.
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  12. #12
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    I just bought Etap 11spd from Ebay,,etap upgrade kit and brakeset cost me 1K only.I have two bikes now with etap and one gravel bike Di2 configured to work like etap..

  13. #13
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    The 12spd version is going for $3.6-$4.2K. The the old etap is not compatible with the new version, so you have to buy the whole lot. I like that you can do a lot of programming and reprogramming, but I'll stick with the 11spd version.
    Last edited by Methodical; 02-06-2019 at 01:25 PM.

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    Looks like some reviews are out:


    https://youtu.be/Hn8iPkm4I2s

    I halfway watched the video while doing other things, so I missed some of the info, but it looks like pricing includes power meter? Would be ~ £400 less, sans meter, per the reviewer.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Don't worry about the batteries, they're not going to cut off thousands of customers w/ 2-3 year old etap.
    As for upgrading...if you don't want to then don't.
    My concern is based on the history with Quarq. After a certain point post-SRAM buyout, they stopped supporting the older models. As they'd roll out the new models, they would offer a trade-in option, and then you're SOL if the old one breaks. It's standard practice in the electronics world, but it does suck if you don't want to be locked into a cycle of perpetual upgrades. One of the reasons I migrated to SRM, because they still support the old wired stuff and every model since. I pick up a PM6 or PM7 version, send it in for service the initial time, and then do battery replacements myself if there's nothing wrong with it. If there is, SRM has done module replacement for me for a reasonable cost. I have a real problem with forced obsolescence.

    So where could SRAM force upgrades? Batteries. How many years will they still carry the proprietary form factor batteries (which have a shelf life) for a system they no longer make? It's not like the chains and cassettes they still have for 8, 9 , and 10 speed, which roll down to the lower tiers and have no real shelf life or HAZMAT concerns.

    I was hoping for a Force eTap version before they moved on, and perhaps there will be once the 12 speed version is more established, giving added life to existing eTap systems. SRAM's answer today give me hope-
    "SRAM has historically delivered our technologies to various price points and we see our system options ultimately expanding. More information to follow."

    But again, at the moment I have no real need to upgrade. When I do, it will be with an eye on sustainability and serviceability.
    Last edited by Alaska Mike; 02-06-2019 at 01:42 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
    My concern is based on the history with Quarq. After a certain point post-SRAM buyout, they stopped supporting the older models. As they'd roll out the new models, they would offer a trade-in option, and then you're SOL if the old one breaks. It's standard practice in the electronics world, but it does suck if you don't want to be locked into a cycle of perpetual upgrades. One of the reasons I migrated to SRM, because they still support the old wired stuff and every model since. I pick up a PM6 or PM7 version, send it in for service the initial time, and then do battery replacements myself if there's nothing wrong with it. If there is, SRM has done module replacement for me for a reasonable cost. I have a real problem with forced obsolescence.

    So where could SRAM force upgrades? Batteries. How many years will they still carry the proprietary form factor batteries (which have a shelf life) for a system they no longer make? It's not like the chains and cassettes they still have for 8, 9 , and 10 speed, which roll down to the lower tiers and have no real shelf life or HAZMAT concerns.

    I was hoping for a Force eTap version before they moved on, and perhaps there will be once the 12 speed version is more established, giving added life to existing eTap systems. SRAM's answer today give me hope-
    "SRAM has historically delivered our technologies to various price points and we see our system options ultimately expanding. More information to follow."

    But again, at the moment I have to real need to upgrade. When I do, it will be with an eye on sustainability and serviceability.
    Since they've introduced so many products today that use the same battery I'm confident they'll stick with it for a while. I'll talk to some SRAM folks I know and see what they have to say...or if they even know anything.
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  17. #17
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    I'm a bit disappointed with the new 12 speed. Initially I had liked what I saw with some of the new gear ranges but it comes at a 300g penalty over 11s etap. It is significantly more expensive and If you get the power meter and you need a new chainring you have to replace both as they seem to be a single unit. Plus it looks huge on the bike in the pictures I've seen which isn't a great look imo.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by taodemon View Post
    I'm a bit disappointed with the new 12 speed. Initially I had liked what I saw with some of the new gear ranges but it comes at a 300g penalty over 11s etap. It is significantly more expensive and If you get the power meter and you need a new chainring you have to replace both as they seem to be a single unit. Plus it looks huge on the bike in the pictures I've seen which isn't a great look imo.
    Regarding the power meter, I'd go for Garmin or Favero pedals before the SRAM chainring mount.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by taodemon View Post
    I'm a bit disappointed with the new 12 speed. Initially I had liked what I saw with some of the new gear ranges but it comes at a 300g penalty over 11s etap. It is significantly more expensive and If you get the power meter and you need a new chainring you have to replace both as they seem to be a single unit. Plus it looks huge on the bike in the pictures I've seen which isn't a great look imo.
    They are not one single piece. The chainrings are machined out of a single billet but the powermeter is separate. No way SRAM is gonna make you buy a new power meter when you wear out rings.
    Last edited by cxwrench; 02-06-2019 at 03:38 PM.
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  20. #20
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    It's true. Saw the new group this AM. Power meter and the rings are one piece. Once the rings wear out, you can send the assembly back to SRAM and they'll recycle it. They give you a 50% discount on the new unit. $410 to the consumer.

    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    They are not one single piece. The chainrings are machined out of a single billet but the powermeter is separate. No way SRAM is gonna make you buy a new power meter when you wear out rings.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGerm View Post
    It's true. Saw the new group this AM. Power meter and the rings are one piece. Once the rings wear out, you can send the assembly back to SRAM and they'll recycle it. They give you a 50% discount on the new unit. $410 to the consumer.
    Wow...even though I never wear out chainrings plenty of people do because they just don't pay attention to chain wear. This is going to piss off a bunch of customers.
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  22. #22
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    According to the GCN propaganda video, they claim 50% better chainring and cassette wear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGerm View Post
    It's true. Saw the new group this AM. Power meter and the rings are one piece. Once the rings wear out, you can send the assembly back to SRAM and they'll recycle it. They give you a 50% discount on the new unit. $410 to the consumer.
    I heard it that way, too, but then GCN stated that you can buy the crank without the PM, but according to SRAM it can be easily upgraded to add the PM. So, would this mean that it's not really totally integrated? Will the crank have to be sent to SRAM for some special fitment or can it be down at home?

    See statement at 7:35 mark of the video.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=l--uZffTpfM

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    According to the GCN propaganda video, they claim 50% better chainring and cassette wear.
    OTOH riding on gravel roads is hell for drivetrain wear... especially those that don't wash things off

  25. #25
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    Would have been much better if they used the 11 tooth cog as the starting point for the set up instead of 10, so people don't need to change hubs. That would have improved the rate of adoption I think. Maybe Shimano will go that route when they move to 12 speed.
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