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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    ..... which was about Vietnam of course and seems to be a centerpiece of your thinking in posts reflected here...man's inhumanity to man........
    Oh no, my beef is man’s inhumanity to the planet and the nature that presides here.

    I despise the notion that earth is only a stopping point for humans until they reach their final destiny and therefore believe it to be A ok to f@ck up every creature and their habitats with reckless abandon in the name of the almighty dollar.

    Humans will destroy this planet in due time just as cancer destroys humans.

    The earth has a dis-ease, it’s called people.

    Us.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    Oh no, my beef is man’s inhumanity to the planet and the nature that presides here.

    I despise the notion that earth is only a stopping point for humans until they reach their final destiny and therefore believe it to be A ok to f@ck up every creature and their habitats with reckless abandon in the name of the almighty dollar.

    Humans will destroy this planet in due time just as cancer destroys humans.

    The earth has a dis-ease, it’s called people.

    Us.
    This has been going on since the 18th century, when man was ignorant of the consequences. So the snowball going downhill just got bigger and bigger. So you ride a bike. I wonder how much of this planet gets raped to produce an Ultegra crankset. How much earth needs to be dug up for that crankset, and what quantities of fossil fuels are used and what is the carbon footprint produced to manufacture that crank? Granted, now that we're more knowledgeable we should do what we can to minimize our impact for future generations. I do worry about our impact to dozens of generations that will come after us, but I'm not concerned if this planet's lifecycle is cut by a few million years.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogre View Post
    This has been going on since the 18th century, when man was ignorant of the consequences. So the snowball going downhill just got bigger and bigger. So you ride a bike. I wonder how much of this planet gets raped to produce an Ultegra crankset. How much earth needs to be dug up for that crankset, and what quantities of fossil fuels are used and what is the carbon footprint produced to manufacture that crank? Granted, now that we're more knowledgeable we should do what we can to minimize our impact for future generations. I do worry about our impact to dozens of generations that will come after us, but I'm not concerned if this planet's lifecycle is cut by a few million years.
    I'm with ogre which to me is the more pragmatic view. Of course to understand it FF, you need to actually understand how things are made. Liberals aren't very good at that as it turns out. No carbon bicycle with modern tech groupsets for you...or synthetic rubber tires. Took too much pollution to create that. Think of the planet FF. Are you complicit spending your money on that? Of course you are including all the appliances in your house and the house itself. Let me expand your thinking FF. Yes, your liberal view is alive and well. And FF with respect, as you look to yourself for your moral purity to blame 'other' humans...'their' pursuit of the almighty dollar which yes compromises the planet on some level, it is 'you' who reap the benefits from driving an automobile to taking an occasional plane ride like Al Gore who rides around in his private jet along with DiCapprio who are champions of the environment as they pollute more than any single human by their behavior. Basically the limousine liberals are the worse because like you, they believe its 'the other guy'. You don't have to be on line FF. Instead you could save the electricity which is created by dirty fossil fuel extracted from the earth further ravishing her. Of course as bicyclists, we maybe a bit more environmentally conscious but make no mistake, you and all of us are complicit in what you believe is the decimation of the planet. I am a scientist FF. I understand the 2nd law of thermodynamics. I also understand that the earth's climate changes 'in spite' of our carbon footprint. You may have heard of the ice age, the continental land drift and the extinction of the wooly mammoth.

    So please, spare us your moral authority about the planet. Or walk the talk and go live in a cave like our ancestors. The earth will die one day. Your and my sacred planet. What has it been through? How long will it last?

    BBC - Earth - How long will life survive on planet Earth?

    One of the things you haven't considered. You are operating from your vantage point. Your IQ. The world in the future including technology like your cell phone you couldn't figure out, that is all going to change with AI and super computers. This will largely stamp out disease if it doesn't fall into the wrong hands and create a super virus that kills off mankind. None of us can predict the future but 'even possible' the trend of destroying the planet can be reversed with technology we can't even imagine....or exploiting unravished planets we haven't visited.

    Its pretty easy to throw the entire world under the bus...the stupidity of man, your view FF, the ignorant liberal view I will add, when you don't talk about all the people also smarter than you that make the planet greater because they are here.
    Last edited by 11spd; 1 Week Ago at 02:47 AM.

  4. #54
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    You might have missed where I said “Us”.

    Ps. I don’t believe it is a one side or the other political problem.

    I will give you an example, the killing of elephants solely for their tusks. That is BS to me.

    By trying to label that as being a “Lib” as you say doesn’t jive with me.

    But labeling people makes it much easier to cast their opinions aside.

    It’s not that easy 11, step out of your political bubble for a minute and think outside of your brainwashed train off thought.

    Looking far into the future and presuming earth could be wiped out by a plague is crossing a hypothetical bridge too far.

    Be mindful of the present.

    People are idiots. Always looking for the next distraction to keep them from residing in the now.

    It all about distractions.

    I am not innocent of this and am fully aware I’m virtue signaling.
    Last edited by factory feel; 1 Week Ago at 06:00 AM.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    Maybe, maybe not.

    The claim was not being faster, or being able to win a sprint, but ability to drop. Ride you off the wheel. And IRL, the advantage is to the wheelsucker in that scenario. Overcoming that advantage takes quite a difference, given two experienced cyclists. So without any more data, I would say the odds would be in your favor.
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    Stout beers under trees, please.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    You might have missed where I said “Us”.

    Ps. I don’t believe it is a one side or the other political problem.

    I will give you an example, the killing of elephants solely for their tusks. That is BS to me.

    By trying to label that as being a “Lib” as you say doesn’t jive with me.

    But labeling people makes it much easier to cast their opinions aside.

    It’s not that easy 11, step out of your political bubble for a minute and think outside of your brainwashed train off thought.

    Looking far into the future and presuming earth could be wiped out by a plague is crossing a hypothetical bridge too far.

    Be mindful of the present.

    People are idiots. Always looking for the next distraction to keep them from residing in the now.

    It all about distractions.

    I am not innocent of this and am fully aware I’m virtue signaling.
    Point is FF, people who point the finger...you are and I am not, are complicit in the problem. You could adopt a smaller carbon footprint but you choose not to. You pollute the planet and could pollute it less. Where is your sense of responsibility as you so judge others. So it is you who is stuck in the judgement lib bubble in your Socal echo chamber when the rest of the country produces products you consume and thank god for them or there would be no bicycle for you to ride or car to drive.

    First responsible thing you could is not own a car FF. You do own a car right? Forget Christmas lights of course. I don't have any. Don't decorate a tree in your house if you are Christian not that it matters.

    To me, your comments are ridiculous and the typical liberal holier than thou BS of judging others while they live to another standard.

    Of course there is abuse. Some guy lives on your street (statistically) that probably beats his wife. That is worse than hanging too many Christmas lights...lol.

    PS: here is a synergistic relationship you never considered. Maybe all those lights and the promotion of peace and love that Christmas promotes will make an impact on the guy who beats his wife and he will be kinder.
    Last edited by 11spd; 1 Week Ago at 07:08 AM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuiQuaeQuod View Post
    The claim was not being faster, or being able to win a sprint, but ability to drop. Ride you off the wheel. And IRL, the advantage is to the wheelsucker in that scenario. Overcoming that advantage takes quite a difference, given two experienced cyclists. So without any more data, I would say the odds would be in your favor.
    You just don't know. I have dropped my fair share and been dropped by others. I have a good drop win/loss ratio but got dropped by some freak yesterday I couldn't stay with after I dropped a few other riders. This fractionally tainted my perception of my new race bike thinking I was being converted to Sagan.

    You don't know until you go. But yes, it takes a lot of watts to ride an experienced rider off your wheel...about 30% more power than the guy is putting out behind you which is a lot.

  8. #58
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    On the topic of Christmas decorations or for that matter, any other holiday decorations, it's not the decorations that bother me. It's more the lavishness which is a result of neighbors needing to outdo other neighbors which escalates it to an extreme level. A tasteful indoor Christmas tree and door wreath isn't enough, we need to light up all the trees in our yards and the frames of our houses, put up Santa and Snoopy blow-up dolls, spotlights with moving objects, loudspeakers playing Christmas music, Noel phallic candles, large toy soldiers next to the big "Peace on Earth" sign (how ironic, are they the peace keepers?). Keeping up with the Joneses isn't good enough. Nope, we need to be BETTER than the Joneses!

    On the topic of music, I am almost 58 and there was some great music while I was growing up. However, I am really, really sick and tired of people my age saying that the music they grew up with is the only music worth listening to. Jimi Hendrix was a great musician. But there have been many great musicians and bands in the meantime throughout the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s leading up to today. Broaden your horizons folks!
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Point is FF, people who point the finger...you are and I am not, are complicit in the problem. You could adopt a smaller carbon footprint but you choose not to. You pollute the planet and could pollute it less. Where is your sense of responsibility as you so judge others. So it is you who is stuck in the judgement lib bubble in your Socal echo chamber when the rest of the country produces products you consume and thank god for them or there would be no bicycle for you to ride or car to drive.

    First responsible thing you could is not own a car FF. You do own a car right? Forget Christmas lights of course. I don't have any. Don't decorate a tree in your house if you are Christian not that it matters.

    To me, your comments are ridiculous and the typical liberal holier than thou BS of judging others while they live to another standard.

    Of course there is abuse. Some guy lives on your street (statistically) that probably beats his wife. That is worse than hanging too many Christmas lights...lol.

    PS: here is a synergistic relationship you never considered. Maybe all those lights and the promotion of peace and love that Christmas promotes will make an impact on the guy who beats his wife and he will be kinder.
    Taking care of the planet is not a political issue. It's an issue humanity needs to tackle collectively. It will take a long time to change that once ALL of us get our heads out of our asses and do something about it. People riding bicycles instead of driving cars whenever possible would be a small step in the right direction. Even with carbon frames and synthetic tires.

    Christmas is not a Christian holiday and it definitely isn't Jesus's birthday. Christmas is a Pagan holiday; Christian's adopted it attempting to convert Pagans to Christianity. Bringing greenery inside during winter months (Christmas tree) is a Pagan tradition. If you want to celebrate the Pagan religioun then get a Christmas tree.

    I don't care what people do on Christmas because it is all totally irrelevant at this point in regards to religious celebrations. It is nice to have something the masses can celebrate once a year into what becomes a month long festival of lights but I feel like everything else about Christmas is going in the wrong direction. People spending tons of time and money on lights and cheap gifts while the homeless freeze and starve to death. Vehicle accident rates go through the roof as people drive around like maniacs trying to find the best Black Friday deals. It's much more like a selfish competition full of indulgence and greed rather than a celebration full of happiness. Which actually matches the Pagan Christmas well of a week of lawlessness and murdering your enemies.

    On a different note. How was Christmas celebrated before we started harnessing electricity and invented the light bulb? How did Christmas lights become part of the religious celebration when it was never part of the celebration to begin with?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    Oh no, my beef is man’s inhumanity to the planet and the nature that presides here.

    I despise the notion that earth is only a stopping point for humans until they reach their final destiny and therefore believe it to be A ok to f@ck up every creature and their habitats with reckless abandon in the name of the almighty dollar.

    Humans will destroy this planet in due time just as cancer destroys humans.

    The earth has a dis-ease, it’s called people.

    Us.
    I'm 74 and the Chicken Little complex has been around for as long as I can remember. The promotion of an unbroken string of life ending environmental crises has existed for that entire time and will likely go on well beyond the lives of my grandchildren. It has been the religion of choice for do gooders who've been preached its' gospel by evangelists attempting to capitalize on the pursuit of its' ever allusive cure.

    I live in the community where I was born. There were no deer or bear in my immediate area when I was a kid and I was 15 when I saw a Bald Eagle for the first time (50 miles from my home).

    Today, deer thrive and Bald Eagles are a common site from my yard in spite of an unimaginable expansion of population. Bobcat, cayote and black bear sightings rile my city raised neighbors, many who've moved here to escape the hell of large urban areas.


    I have no illusion that our population can continue to grow as it has in the past 70 years without consequences. My point relates to the failed predictions of the environmental community of the past and it's inability to understand man's ability to make the adjustments needed to mitigate growth related damage to habitat and to the planet. To be certain, change happens slowly and reaction to extreme environmental predictions is met with resistance--just as it should be.

    Ignorance comes in many forms. The underestimation of the collective intelligence of the masses has become a popular belief in the past couple of decades but it too will pass. Our school system (once an education system) has degenerated to a system of low achievers preaching the doctrine of low achievement to our youth. The embarrassing dive in results from first or second to near last in the industrialized world has pissed off the masses. This is especially egregious since we remain in the top few in expenditure per pupil. But like most imbalances in social behavior, the masses have become more successful in forcing change in the past couple of years and it looks like the restoration of an education system may have begun.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Point is FF, people who point the finger...you are and I am not....
    Mmm, wedding-cake sweet irony.
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Mmm, wedding-cake sweet irony.
    No FF started the thread. I accept the weird commercialization/waste of energy and decoration of Christmas some find revolting. I somewhat agree it is ridiculous but not as ridiculous as humans killing one another which they do in record numbers. No we aren't that far from the caves we evolved from and yes humans are flawed but there are many other indiscretions on the planet that need to be addressed before Christmas lights are the center of attention...like starvation and cannibalism and sex trafficking.
    Last edited by 11spd; 1 Week Ago at 12:57 PM.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fajita Dave View Post
    Taking care of the planet is not a political issue. It's an issue humanity needs to tackle collectively. It will take a long time to change that once ALL of us get our heads out of our asses and do something about it. People riding bicycles instead of driving cars whenever possible would be a small step in the right direction. Even with carbon frames and synthetic tires.

    Christmas is not a Christian holiday and it definitely isn't Jesus's birthday. Christmas is a Pagan holiday; Christian's adopted it attempting to convert Pagans to Christianity. Bringing greenery inside during winter months (Christmas tree) is a Pagan tradition. If you want to celebrate the Pagan religioun then get a Christmas tree.

    I don't care what people do on Christmas because it is all totally irrelevant at this point in regards to religious celebrations. It is nice to have something the masses can celebrate once a year into what becomes a month long festival of lights but I feel like everything else about Christmas is going in the wrong direction. People spending tons of time and money on lights and cheap gifts while the homeless freeze and starve to death. Vehicle accident rates go through the roof as people drive around like maniacs trying to find the best Black Friday deals. It's much more like a selfish competition full of indulgence and greed rather than a celebration full of happiness. Which actually matches the Pagan Christmas well of a week of lawlessness and murdering your enemies.

    On a different note. How was Christmas celebrated before we started harnessing electricity and invented the light bulb? How did Christmas lights become part of the religious celebration when it was never part of the celebration to begin with?
    this explains it Dave:

    https://gizmodo.com/5425395/christma...ing-history-of

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    ... there are many other indiscretions on the planet that need to be addressed before Christmas lights are the center of attention...like starvation and catabolism and sex trafficking.
    Most people consider catabolism to be a good thing.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    Most people consider catabolism to be a good thing.
    Dog lovers?

  16. #66
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    This says it all:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -black-friday.jpg  
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Dog lovers?
    You're a cyclist -- you should know this stuff:

    "Almost all organisms use the sugar glucose as a source of energy and carbon chains. Glucose is stored by organisms in larger molecules called polysaccharides. These polysaccharides can be starches, glycogen, or other simple sugars like sucrose. When an animal’s cells need energy, it sends signals to the parts of the body that store glucose, or it consumes food. Glucose is released from the carbohydrates by special enzymes, in the first part of the catabolism. The glucose is then distributed into the body, for other cells to use as energy."

    -- Biological Dictionary

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    You're a cyclist -- you should know this stuff:

    "Almost all organisms use the sugar glucose as a source of energy and carbon chains. Glucose is stored by organisms in larger molecules called polysaccharides. These polysaccharides can be starches, glycogen, or other simple sugars like sucrose. When an animal’s cells need energy, it sends signals to the parts of the body that store glucose, or it consumes food. Glucose is released from the carbohydrates by special enzymes, in the first part of the catabolism. The glucose is then distributed into the body, for other cells to use as energy."

    -- Biological Dictionary
    And here I thought you were making a reference to eating cats. Btw, I am a cat and dog lover.
    I did run into a hot woman I used to ride with...she rides a bit later in the day and she looked a bit thinner and she said was teaching Buddhism for a while and went vegan and lost her muscle mass and power on the bike. She used to be a competitive body builder and I think she looks good at any weight.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    On the topic of music, I am almost 58 and there was some great music while I was growing up. However, I am really, really sick and tired of people my age saying that the music they grew up with is the only music worth listening to. Jimi Hendrix was a great musician. But there have been many great musicians and bands in the meantime throughout the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s leading up to today. Broaden your horizons folks!
    how can you not like Jimi...


  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    No FF started the thread....
    Hmm, nothing in this statement about starting anything, just finger-pointing:

    Originally Posted by 11spd

    Point is FF, people who point the finger...you are and I am not....
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    how can you not like Jimi...
    You really should re-read my post carefully. Did I say I didn't like Jimi?
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Mmm, wedding-cake sweet irony.
    The irony was lost on you. FF pointed the finger at those that like lavish displays at Christmas and loud Harley riders...he conflates the attention they command. He points the finger at them and we are discussing it. Per a usual troll post, you have nothing to contribute to the conversation.

    FF and I are both motorcycle guys. We both know about Harley riders and we don't choose Harleys as our choice of motorcycles. But I have built custom motorcycles with loud drag pipes. So we might not agree there either. Typically, I don't like loud motorcycles but I have owned them and rode them with earplugs. FF may not subscribe to 'loud pipes save lives' which may be even half true.

    The Christmas light thing...many believes its the subversion of Christmas...or the commercialization of Christmas which shouldn't be the spirit of the holiday. I agree with FF it is wasteful on some level. But human's are and can be incredibly wasteful. Its the other stuff that human's do wrong...like troll on the internet that is even more reprehensible. So consider being a good person and participating in conversation...adding your opinion versus trolling would be a good start for you.
    Last edited by 11spd; 1 Week Ago at 02:54 AM.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    The irony was lost on you....

    Hardly, when your fingers made it so clear Ray Charles could see it:

    Originally Posted by 11spd

    Point is FF, people who point the finger...you are and I am not....
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxl View Post
    Hardly, when your fingers made it so clear Ray Charles could see it:

    Originally Posted by 11spd

    Point is FF, people who point the finger...you are and I am not....
    Ray Charles could see a lot of things you can't.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Ray Charles could see a lot of things you can't.
    Perhaps, but anyone, even a dead blind man, can see the irony of this:


    Originally Posted by 11spd

    Point is FF, people who point the finger...you are and I am not....

    I guess one could say you fingered yourself.
    More Americans wanted Hillary Clinton to be President than wanted Donald Trump.

    Donald Trump has never had a wife he didn't cheat on.

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