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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodys737 View Post
    Gravel bikes (and cross, mountain etc...) are almost 100% sourced with disc brakes so, I don't think there is any doubt that disc is superior braking. IMO, once the bike manufacturers no longer offer a choice then the transition will be complete.

    My next road bike will be disc. Planning on getting a cross bike (disc) and using it for everything else. The wheels are the problem. It's just a large amount of money transitioning to everything disc.
    Yes, my point exactly.

    The transition is happening just not as fast as projected.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    Might be a thread drift but...

    I saw a dude today riding a bike with deep carbon aero rims and flat bars. I couldn't tell you what kind of brakes he was running as I was busy shaking my head over his handlebar\wheel combination.

    Just a guess but probably disc brakes.
    It was probably a fake fixie. Damn hipsters.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    It was probably a fake fixie. Damn hipsters.
    Damn, not only didn't I pay attention to the brakes, but I didn't notice if there was a derailleur. If I'm lucky enough to see him again I plan on paying better attention.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    Yes, my point exactly.

    The transition is happening just not as fast as projected.
    Any notion of a 'projection' you have is as obtuse of you comparing disc demand or lack thereof with demand for gravel bikes.
    It makes sense you don't have much regard for the truth because it escapes you...repeatedly.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    Not that Disc Brakes are bad, It just seems they are struggling to quickly saturate the market.
    I think you're tilting at windmills.
    Where do you get this premise that
    a) disc brakes need to saturate the market?
    b) that they are not saturating the market?

    I'm constantly seeing new disc equipped road bikes appearing in my cycling group. I haven't done any statistics but what I'm seeing is at least 50% of the people buying a new bike are going disc.

    And the top of the line race bikes are all disc. This "struggle" you claim doesn't appear to exist.
    https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...-bikes/c/B200/
    https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Pr...8-febc1ef56986
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    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes/on-road
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    I think you're tilting at windmills.
    Where do you get this premise that
    a) disc brakes need to saturate the market?
    b) that they are not saturating the market?

    I'm constantly seeing new disc equipped road bikes appearing in my cycling group. I haven't done any statistics but what I'm seeing is at least 50% of the people buying a new bike are going disc.

    And the top of the line race bikes are all disc. This "struggle" you claim doesn't appear to exist.
    https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...-bikes/c/B200/
    https://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Pr...8-febc1ef56986
    https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bi...d-bikes/c/road
    https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/bikes/on-road
    It must depend on location. I don't see many disc equipped bikes on group rides and the shops still seem to be selling mostly rim brakes here. I'm in flat southern NJ so perhaps buyers aren't seeing the benefit of discs in that terrain

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    Keep the bicycle industry alive?
    Keep the INDUSTRY alive?

    Hmmm, if only there were a way to see how the industry has been doing over time!



    Did Gravel do what disc's haven't been able to ?-bikesales92-15.jpg

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...s-of-bicycles/

    Looks pretty long term flat to me. And more recently?

    MOUNT PROSPECT, Ill. (BRAIN) — Early figures from the 2018 edition of the National Sporting Goods Association's Sports Participation in the U.S. report shows participation in the study's "Wheel Sports" category, which includes cycling, remains flat, up just 0.1 percent over the prior year. NSGA will release more detailed data on bicycling participation later this spring.

    Last year, NSGA found that bicycling participation was up 0.5 percent over 2015, while the larger Wheel Sports category was down 0.5 percent.

    The NSGA report is one of the largest and longest standing participation studies in the sports industry. The study has tracked cycling since 1984, and defines participants as those Americans age 7 and up who have ridden a bike six or more days per year.
    https://www.bicycleretailer.com/stud...icipation-flat


    So, still pretty flat.

    No evidence of dying, no evidence of saving. Not by the numbers, for the industry.
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  8. #33
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    Gravel is the only thing I care to race cuz it's just fun...aside from point to point mtb.

    Discs are still pretty new in road bike spectrum, they are just trickling in at this point. CX/Gravel though? They've become the standard.

  9. #34
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    Hmm I think OP is from Socal. Anyway, I'm in Socal, weather here is good, nobody rides in the rain here. I see very little adoption of disc here. The "go-fast" type of people still buy high-end rim brake bikes. I notice that the people buying high-end disc are usually in their late 40s and beyond, go slow type of guy, and cannot go fast downhill because they are not confident.

    We also have a lot of dirt trails around here too, and I do see more and more road cyclists buying "gravel" or "cross" bikes to hit the fire roads. I feel that 'gravel' bikes has open up new frontier for these roadies, where as before they might have been hesitant to buy a full blown mtb bike.

    Personally, in Socal, I wouldn't buy a gravel or cross bike though. It's either a road bike or a legit mountain bike so I can hit all the hard singletracks where a gravel bike can't go.

  10. #35
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    The provincial road racing assn only started allowing disc brakes as of this spring, here in BC. So no wonder the fast guys were forced to buy rim brake only every year until this year. And I imagine most enthusiast riders bought their bikes many years ago, before there were many disc brake options. I attended a local race a month ago and about 1/10 of the racers had disc brakes.

    I myself built a new bike 2 years ago. chose rim brakes for it for several reasons and I do live in rain country, with very steep winding hills and regularly ride in the wet. I would have gone for discs, but this bike is a unique custom breakaway frame and the discs complicate that.

    I don't think gravel is very popular here. and the gravel MUTs we have are easily ridden with 25C slicks. Discs are definitely far more popular here because 'winter bikes' are very popular here among commuters and enthusiasts (I have a high end winter bike, a CX bike w discs, fenders and 28c tires), as well as discs on bikes for the casual MUT riders. The rate of disc brakes I see on my local rides where I encounter several hundred cyclists is definitely over 50%.

    So no, disc brakes are still taking over, and gravel is a tiny niche, in my experience.
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Hmm I think OP is from Socal. Anyway, I'm in Socal, weather here is good, nobody rides in the rain here. I see very little adoption of disc here. The "go-fast" type of people still buy high-end rim brake bikes. I notice that the people buying high-end disc are usually in their late 40s and beyond, go slow type of guy, and cannot go fast downhill because they are not confident.
    I am sure you are working hard diligently stalking all these people buying disc brake bikes to know exactly how they ride, but it's quite interesting that somehow your [judgmental] "findings" conveniently match your bias, funny that...

    But since we are throwing around anecdotal evidence

    Up here in NorCal, where it is also good weather most of the time and not many people ride in the rain either, I part time at a friends bike shop and we've only sold one rim brake road bike this year (and it was a special edition bike that only came in rim brake). And only two gravel bikes, but we only carry one model and there has been a lot of talk and interest about gravel bikes in general. Gravel bikes don't interest me much, not much in the way of gravel roads here that wouldn't be better suited to an MTB
    In general, I see quite a lot of people on disc brake bikes, but I don't follow them around like you do to know how good they ride, as if it even matters
    In the major group rides of the serious folks around here, I would say on most days about 20-30% are on disc, the rest mostly are still riding the bikes they've had for a few years. I know of two people who bought new rim brake bikes this year, one who only did because he wanted to save money using the nice set of wheels he already had ( and just broke them yesterday).

    And while I no longer live in SoCal, I am still a member of one of the bigger clubs down there and per the social media photos I can see that more and more people in the club have been showing up on disc brake bikes, including some serious racers.



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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    I am sure you are working hard diligently stalking all these people buying disc brake bikes to know exactly how they ride, but it's quite interesting that somehow your [judgmental] "findings" conveniently match your bias, funny that...


    .
    there you go talking outta yo ass again when I was just telling my experience. You butthurt?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    there you go talking outta yo ass again when I was just telling my experience. You butthurt?
    Butthurt? Nah, just calling you out for making the same judgmental comments you always make. Lost track of how many times you've tried to claim that people who buy disc brake bikes can't descend or are freds, etc.. What did you see one person like that, so now everyone who buys disc is the same? There was no reason for you to make such comments




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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    Butthurt? Nah, just calling you out for making the same judgmental comments you always make. Lost track of how many times you've tried to claim that people who buy disc brake bikes can't descend or are freds, etc.. What did you see one person like that, so now everyone who buys disc is the same? There was no reason for you to make such comments




    .
    I can't make a comment based on my experience? That's what I see. Guys on disc are weak riders, dragging their brakes too much. Good riders care about speed, less about braking. My experience eh, no need to be butthurt.

  15. #40
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    One ride down Teton Pass in the rain would change your tune.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    I can't make a comment based on my experience? That's what I see. Guys on disc are weak riders, dragging their brakes too much. Good riders care about speed, less about braking. My experience eh, no need to be butthurt.
    No, as usual, you are being judgmental and making a generalization based on your limited experience, it was irrelevant to the discussion. And as usual, I am calling you out on your BS. Seems you're the one butthurt.



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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Hmm I think OP is from Socal. Anyway, I'm in Socal, weather here is good, nobody rides in the rain here. I see very little adoption of disc here. The "go-fast" type of people still buy high-end rim brake bikes. I notice that the people buying high-end disc are usually in their late 40s and beyond, go slow type of guy, and cannot go fast downhill because they are not confident.
    I think it must be location based, in my little burg, the guys in their 40's are the fastest guys around. They are also buying disc bikes like crazy.

    In my never to be humble opinion, I go much faster downhill with disc brakes. You can brake late into a turn or brake less, knowing that if you need to slough off some speed you have stoppers that can handle it.

  18. #43
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    Damn! I'm out of popcorn.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  19. #44
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    Discs..skipped right over V brakes making um obsolete even though its a real rear occasion you "need" disc brakes when a v brake would have worked fine....

    Gravel? I dont know..being able to run huge tires/disc brakes and ride trails/fireroads..pretty fun. Great for mixed terrain rides....

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrm View Post
    Discs..skipped right over V brakes making um obsolete even though its a real rear occasion you "need" disc brakes when a v brake would have worked fine....
    V-brakes require more cable to be pulled than road shifters do, so they're not compatible.

    Cantilever brakes are what most older touring bike use. Those have their own issues.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  21. #46
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    Well I just on Monday bought a new disc brake road bike. Why? Not because I needed disc brakes so much, but because my prior road bike was old (17years old) and due for a replacement. I figured that disc brakes are better. They are better on cars, better on mtn bikes and will be better on road bikes. Now if I just bought a rim brake road bike last year I would not sell it for disc, but going forward? Very different story.

    Rim brakes work generally ok, but are not ideal for carbon wheels. I have friend with carbon wheels and he is always trying to find the right pads to work well. Disc brakes really solves that problem and allows you to design a rim profile to support the tire only. The issue is it took time even in Mtn biking for disc brakes to take hold and I suspect it will take longer in road biking as the braking needs are just not as severe. Still it is the way the future.

    As for gravel... I see no purpose to gravel bikes at least where I live. If you want to hit dirt get a mtn bike. If you want do road... do road... Most dirt roads here are pretty rough and are better ridden on a 29hr HT mtn bike. In fact some "gravel" races have been won by Mtn bikes.

    In both cases from a Bike Mfg stand point. If you drive disc or gravel and get everyone to get excited about them they both require "new bikes". The idea is both mean new bike sales since you can't convert. Now of course you can convert some road bikes to gravel, but mfg don't want you to believe that.

    Truth is Mtn bikes for 5-6 years have been going through this. The movement from 26" wheels to 27.5" and 29 and now "plus" tires and "boost" wheels spacing and Long slack geomerty all has been driving the idea of "dude you NEED and entirely new bike since that one you got 2 years ago is too old and you will die trying to ride it". Now we all know that BS. Still for road bikes that is really less of an issue since the jump from a 15-20 year old road bike is much more incremental than revolutionary.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    I haven't done any statistics but what I'm seeing is at least 50% of the people buying a new bike are going disc.
    I'd suspect 100% of newbie riders. Experienced and seasoned riders know how to brake and have no use for them. The marketers are sharp. First they sell people on carbon clinchers which are stupid, then they sell you disc brakes so your stupid carbon clinchers won't de-laminate at speed. And suckers are buying it. Just run tubular carbons or aluminum wheels and the silly disc argument is put to bed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    I'd suspect 100% of newbie riders. Experienced and seasoned riders know how to brake and have no use for them. The marketers are sharp. First they sell people on carbon clinchers which are stupid, then they sell you disc brakes so your stupid carbon clinchers won't de-laminate at speed. And suckers are buying it. Just run tubular carbons or aluminum wheels and the silly disc argument is put to bed.
    I guess we all can't be as smart and "seasoned" as you.



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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    I'd suspect 100% of newbie riders. Experienced and seasoned riders know how to brake and have no use for them. The marketers are sharp. First they sell people on carbon clinchers which are stupid, then they sell you disc brakes so your stupid carbon clinchers won't de-laminate at speed. And suckers are buying it. Just run tubular carbons or aluminum wheels and the silly disc argument is put to bed.
    You're username doesn't match your view points very well. There are no practical reasons not to use disc brakes. There is roughly a 1 watt aero disadvantage at 20mph and 3/4Lbs weight penalty. The slightest bit of effort in body position can easily make up for the 1 watt in aero and the fatter tires discs allow has show to be worth far more in terms of less rolling reistance. Both will out weigh the 14oz weight penalty. Besides that you gain less maintenance hassle of cleaning rims, much broader choice of wheels and tires, more predictable braking performance in ideal conditions and dramatically better braking performance in less than ideal braking conditions.

    I don't think manufactures ever claimed disc brakes would make you faster besides maybe on a technical downhill. However, the potential is there with rim and tire choice. In dry conditions I agree good rim brakes wouldn't be any slower on a technical descent. You wouldn't be at a disadvantage with disc either.

    I spent 45mins cleaning the gray gunk off my rims after the last ride I did in the rain. My rims were spotless before that 92 mile ride. I haven't cleaned my mountain bike discs in over 700 miles riding through rain, sand and mud. The braking performance is identical to what it was 700 miles ago when I replaced the brake pads.

  25. #50
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    With the caveat that I've never owned, or even ridden, a bike with disc brakes, my main concern is that any problem with the disc setup would require a trip to the shop, as my impression is that specialized tools and/or knowledge is required for pretty much any disc brake service. Whereas for rim brakes, though adjustments may be needed more frequently, I can't think of a time that I haven't been able to fix the issue at home with basic tools.

    Are disc brakes reliable enough to make this a non-issue? I mean, to me, it sounds like replacing the pads is doable, but you'll be heading to the shop if anything else happens.

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