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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Actually, 3 Musketeers is better than Snickers - higher sugar content. When you are starting to see stars, you can actually feel the sugar rush from swallowing a bite of 3 Musketeers.
    Coca-Cola is Magical!
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    good lord. i didn't think i needed to spell it out in reference to the subforum traffic on roadbikereview.com.

    my bad.
    Mine was not intended as a negative response to yours. Perhaps I missed your point?

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldZaskar View Post
    National forest mountain bike trails prohibit "motorized vehicles" on trails. Ebikes fit in that category... 'cause you know... like it not... they're motorcycles.
    How do you feel about bikes with motorized shifting (Di2)?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanE View Post
    No. I mean a forum where people can discuss e-bikes in a civilized manner without snarky comments.
    Because that's how all the existing forums work?
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  5. #30
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    Fully understanding the extra cost of gasoline, maintenance, and insurance I can't get over that for the price of a nice e-Bike, (Trek e-Domane, 7K) is enough to buy a nice brand new 300-400 cc scooter or motorcycle.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    Fully understanding the extra cost of gasoline, maintenance, and insurance I can't get over that for the price of a nice e-Bike, (Trek e-Domane, 7K) is enough to buy a nice brand new 300-400 cc scooter or motorcycle.
    Also enough to buy a nice 10 year old luxury car, pickup, or camper. The technology refinements put into these modern top of the line bikes increased their prices from $1250. in '85, when I paid for a full Campy Super Record DeRosa with tubular tires,-- to-- damn, $7000,-12,000 for the same bling today? Gimme a break. It's a bike, a little bit lighter than a wheelchair, that you pedal with your legs, steer with you upper body, and ride. That's it.

    The technology and money gotta be for love, up there among the stars! Mortals can still snap up a great bike for $1250 that'll ride as good as the old DeRosa, maybe "better." And it'll keep up with the more expensive ones, no problem.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Also enough to buy a nice 10 year old luxury car, pickup, or camper. The technology refinements put into these modern top of the line bikes increased their prices from $1250. in '85, when I paid for a full Campy Super Record DeRosa with tubular tires,-- to-- damn, $7000,-12,000 for the same bling today? Gimme a break. It's a bike, a little bit lighter than a wheelchair, that you pedal with your legs, steer with you upper body, and ride. That's it.

    The technology and money gotta be for love, up there among the stars! Mortals can still snap up a great bike for $1250 that'll ride as good as the old DeRosa, maybe "better." And it'll keep up with the more expensive ones, no problem.
    Man, that's only 4% inflation a year (rule of 72). In addition, the bike technology is far superior today. It's one hell of a bargain at $7200. The $12000 model is only up 6% a year and it weighs half as much and has far better shifting with twice as many gears and dramatically superior brakes.

    We're screwing the bike manufacturers when we pay $12000 for a top end bike. I don't know if I'm going to be able to sleep tonight!
    Last edited by SwiftSolo; 12-17-2018 at 08:36 PM.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Actually, 3 Musketeers is better than Snickers - higher sugar content. When you are starting to see stars, you can actually feel the sugar rush from swallowing a bite of 3 Musketeers.
    We had the same discussion. 3 Musketeers won every time, but some of us liked crunching on the nuts in the Snickers bar. The caramel filling had a bit more body, and was just delicious rolling around on the tongue.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    Man, that's only 4% inflation a year (rule of 72). In addition, the bike technology is far superior today. It's one hell of a bargain at $7200. The $12000 model is only up 6% a year and it weighs half as much and has far better shifting with twice as many gears and dramatically superior brakes.

    We're screwing the bike manufacturers when we pay $12000 for a top end bike. I don't know if I'm going to be able to sleep tonight!
    Yep, sophistication went through the roof, 12 speed rear wheels, electronic shifting, finely tuned carbon frame that responds as if it has energy assist, holds the road like a motorcycle, is comfortable all day long, and springs up the hills like a bird in flight.

    Did you read the link to the bike mags. during the '60s? The riders had big, thick legs pushing those big gears on heavier bikes. But I've read the average speeds haven't increased all that much, so we're getting different animals today setting the course on these svelte carbon 24 speeds, and they're still working their a$$es off. The TDF bikes in '80 weighed 20-21#, so weights haven't changed all that much, either.

    Anyway, WTF? gravel bikes are back up to 25#! So much for weight advantage. One does notice the increased work load on every rise. Good training.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post

    The TDF bikes in '80 weighed 20-21#, so weights haven't changed all that much, either.

    Anyway, WTF? gravel bikes are back up to 25#! So much for weight advantage. One does notice the increased work load on every rise. Good training.
    Weight as a functional impact on cycling performance be it the rider or the bike or equipment is hilariously and the ridiculously most overrated variable there is in the increments that are often mentioned.

    Add 5 pounds to Froome's, Armstrong, or Wiggins in any capacity and IMO they still would have won.
    Last edited by GlobalGuy; 12-17-2018 at 10:51 PM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    Add 5 pounds to ... Armstrong ... in any capacity and IMO [he] still would have won.
    unless it's five pounds of truth.
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  12. #37
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    I think many of you are missing the point on e-bikes a.k.a. e-assist bikes. It is not the same as a moped or scooter. An e-assist bike has no throttle and cannot propel itself. The motor only kicks in when you pedal. Not to mention no stinky exhaust.

    While I am not a fan of these for myself (at least not yet), many years from now (or if I have an injury that I am recovering from) I may still want to get some exercise by pedaling a bike, but may need some help getting up the hills.

    So lighten up guys!
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Yep, sophistication went through the roof, 12 speed rear wheels, electronic shifting, finely tuned carbon frame that responds as if it has energy assist, holds the road like a motorcycle, is comfortable all day long, and springs up the hills like a bird in flight.

    Did you read the link to the bike mags. during the '60s? The riders had big, thick legs pushing those big gears on heavier bikes. But I've read the average speeds haven't increased all that much, so we're getting different animals today setting the course on these svelte carbon 24 speeds, and they're still working their a$$es off. The TDF bikes in '80 weighed 20-21#, so weights haven't changed all that much, either.

    Anyway, WTF? gravel bikes are back up to 25#! So much for weight advantage. One does notice the increased work load on every rise. Good training.
    The weight issue has several facets.

    With a given rider power ouput on a given climb with factors like wind and temperature and road conditions equal, there is no magic in computing the time savings associated with a given reduction in weight. in a climbing time trial with a field of 100 riders, 5 lbs could make the difference between 1st and 10th place.

    The factor that is significant to my wife is the effort required to load a 22lb bike on the car rack verses a 16 lb bike. I'll gladely pay the $3000 difference to ensure that the hassle doesn't outweigh her desire to ride

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    I'm thinking of getting a MBike one, but they say the forest service says can't ride on the trails.... we will see. I guess if they allow e-bikes they may have to allow my kawa! Yea baby!
    On most rivers and lakes in the country the term "internal combustion" is the key to understanding where this is likely to go with the USFS.

    When we take out the damage done to the egos of the insecure and the imagined carnage they'd like to believe will follow, the noise and pollution issues that remain are addressed by e-bikes.

    So "no internal combustion vehicles beyond the sign" will likely replace "no motorize vehicles" signs just as they did on the lakes and rivers with the advent of electric outboards. Like with electric outboard motors, there may be some power limitations/restrictions.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalGuy View Post
    Fully understanding the extra cost of gasoline, maintenance, and insurance I can't get over that for the price of a nice e-Bike, (Trek e-Domane, 7K) is enough to buy a nice brand new 300-400 cc scooter or motorcycle.
    And for 5k more you can buy a nice, high end bicycle without a motor!

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    The weight issue has several facets.

    With a given rider power ouput on a given climb with factors like wind and temperature and road conditions equal, there is no magic in computing the time savings associated with a given reduction in weight. in a climbing time trial with a field of 100 riders, 5 lbs could make the difference between 1st and 10th place.

    The factor that is significant to my wife is the effort required to load a 22lb bike on the car rack verses a 16 lb bike. I'll gladely pay the $3000 difference to ensure that the hassle doesn't outweigh her desire to ride
    Well ok, she could train up to that 22# gravel bike, maybe even make it home unassisted on the 40# electric bike. Tell her, "No pain, no gain, gal."

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I think many of you are missing the point on e-bikes a.k.a. e-assist bikes. It is not the same as a moped or scooter. An e-assist bike has no throttle and cannot propel itself. The motor only kicks in when you pedal. Not to mention no stinky exhaust.

    While I am not a fan of these for myself (at least not yet), many years from now (or if I have an injury that I am recovering from) I may still want to get some exercise by pedaling a bike, but may need some help getting up the hills.

    So lighten up guys!
    I don't think you get much exercise on an assist ebike. The people riding the ones that pass me going up hills at around 15 mph don't look like their exerting much energy. I commute to work on a MUT and see more and more of these things. Almost always ridden by people who appear fairly young. I've got nothing against them except that motorized vehicles are banned on the MUT. I consider these things to be motorized vehicles. I see someone doing stupid things on them on a daily basis. Passing on blind corners while going pretty fast seems to be the favorite dumbass maneuver. I had one pass me on the 14-th street bridge going the other way riding it really fast. Do riders of real bikes do dumbass stuff too? Sure, but at least they have some bike handling skills. Thus far its tolerable, but I worry about the day when half the bikes on the MUT are ebikes and I've got people passing on the right and left going up the hill because I can't ride as fast as they can. And that day will come unless the Parks & Rec people put their foot down.

    My LBS must have 25 of them on the floor. Every time I go in there some salesman asks me if I want to try an ebike. So it looks like they're staying afloat with help from ebike sales. I think its a pretty sad state of affairs when the up and coming technology on a bicycle is an electric motor.

  18. #43
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    I have also considered getting one for the same reason. What bike did you get her, and are you happy with the choice?

    Thanks,

    Quote Originally Posted by bmach View Post
    My wife has had one for 3 years now. It allows us to ride together. She would not ride with me before because it bothered her that I had to ride slower. Did not bother me but it did her. Now that she has the ebike (assist) If I want I can out ride her on the flats and down hill but up hill she just goes by me and laughs. I have used it a couple of times and it is fun to ride. As for the battery she can get 70 miles out of it riding in western Ma And western Ct. As for it being a moped and motercycle, Check out the legal definition.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I think many of you are missing the point on e-bikes a.k.a. e-assist bikes. It is not the same as a moped or scooter. An e-assist bike has no throttle and cannot propel itself. The motor only kicks in when you pedal. Not to mention no stinky exhaust.

    While I am not a fan of these for myself (at least not yet), many years from now (or if I have an injury that I am recovering from) I may still want to get some exercise by pedaling a bike, but may need some help getting up the hills.

    So lighten up guys!
    In the US anyway, pedal assist and throttle ebikes are treated the same on bike lanes/bike paths. There are a few exceptions, but generally, if ebikes are allowed, it doesn't matter how you turn on the motor.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    My LBS must have 25 of them on the floor. Every time I go in there some salesman asks me if I want to try an ebike. So it looks like they're staying afloat with help from ebike sales. I think its a pretty sad state of affairs when the up and coming technology on a bicycle is an electric motor.
    Anything that helps LBSs stay open is fine with me. I don't want every kind of bike, but I do want LBSs.
    .
    Stout beers under trees, please.

  21. #46
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    Can you get fit on an ebike?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=65t3dPAZUMs

    Try one and find out. No assist, a little assist or lots of assist, you decide.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by harryman View Post
    In the US anyway, pedal assist and throttle ebikes are treated the same on bike lanes/bike paths. There are a few exceptions, but generally, if ebikes are allowed, it doesn't matter how you turn on the motor.
    On NYC streets, e-assist bikes are legal, but throttle bikes aren't. That being said, enforcement is basically non-existent. Messengers ride their throttle bikes on streets and sidewalks.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  23. #48
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    Remember the famous quote:

    "It never gets easier. You just use less throttle on your eBike."

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I don't think you get much exercise on an assist ebike. The people riding the ones that pass me going up hills at around 15 mph don't look like their exerting much energy. I commute to work on a MUT and see more and more of these things. Almost always ridden by people who appear fairly young. I've got nothing against them except that motorized vehicles are banned on the MUT. I consider these things to be motorized vehicles. I see someone doing stupid things on them on a daily basis. Passing on blind corners while going pretty fast seems to be the favorite dumbass maneuver. I had one pass me on the 14-th street bridge going the other way riding it really fast. Do riders of real bikes do dumbass stuff too? Sure, but at least they have some bike handling skills. Thus far its tolerable, but I worry about the day when half the bikes on the MUT are ebikes and I've got people passing on the right and left going up the hill because I can't ride as fast as they can. And that day will come unless the Parks & Rec people put their foot down.

    My LBS must have 25 of them on the floor. Every time I go in there some salesman asks me if I want to try an ebike. So it looks like they're staying afloat with help from ebike sales. I think its a pretty sad state of affairs when the up and coming technology on a bicycle is an electric motor.
    We see this kind of post regularly regarding e-bikes.

    Apparently these e-bike riders have superior skills as they engage in death defyingly dangerous behavior. Or is it the you have opted to avoid taking pictures of their grotesque and bloody accident scenes?

    I think it'll be pretty sad state of affairs if the day should come when I decide how people should have fun and get exercise without a shred of evidence that their preferred methods provide damage to me (or others) beyond my patheticly fragile ego.

    Regarding your observations about exertion, I can use lower gears to reduce energy demand on my bike and they can use a different and less efficient mode on theirs.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    Regarding your observations about exertion, I can use lower gears to reduce energy demand on my bike and they can use a different and less efficient mode on theirs.
    Yeah, but you're not gonna keep up with 'em. Just not fair.

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