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  1. #76
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    Let's forget about all the insults and what the definition of a throttle is.

    There are two types of e-bikes. One has a motor which can operate independently of the rider. The other requires the rider to pedal before the motor will engage. The former is illegal in some cities.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  2. #77
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    Throttle shmottle... Why are these bikes so damned heavy and expensive? That'll keep me from buying one.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    Throttle shmottle... Why are these bikes so damned heavy and expensive? That'll keep me from buying one.
    Motors aren't light. No way around that.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Motors aren't light. No way around that.
    I wonder how much effort was expended in developing a light motor? Normally, weight is not a concern for electric motors.

  5. #80
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    I'm going to use my 3D printer and make one out of styrofoam right now!

    It's going to be nuclear powered so you don't have to charge it. And, the big part, it's not going to have a throttle, so when you hit the gas, you'll be attaining earth's exit velocity before it runs out of juice.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    Throttle shmottle... Why are these bikes so damned heavy and expensive? That'll keep me from buying one.
    You can buy a haibike urban with a bosch motor that will provide assist to 28mph for $1999. with parts found around most roadies garages you can get the weight down from 38lbs to about 34 lbs.

    Not sure what you expect? The bike will take an average fitness 170lb rider about 65 miles at 22mph or 35 miles at 26mph (on flat ground).

    The real problem is that the expense of the frame, motor and battery causes most companies to install boat anchor groupos and wheels in order to keep the price down. Also, understand that the average 500wh lithium ion battery weighs close to 8 lbs and costs between $700 and $1100 retail.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    You can buy a haibike urban with a bosch motor that will provide assist to 28mph for $1999. with parts found around most roadies garages you can get the weight down from 38lbs to about 34 lbs.

    Not sure what you expect? The bike will take an average fitness 170lb rider about 65 miles at 22mph or 35 miles at 26mph (on flat ground).

    The real problem is that the expense of the frame and motor causes most companies to install boat anchor groupos and wheels in order to keep the price down. Also, understand that the average 500wh lithium ion battery weighs close to 8 lbs
    Being a newbie wrt e-bikes, I like the concept behind the Orbea bikes. I don't think I need a lot of power, their hub motor system only adds 8 lbs to the bike, and the bike looks and rides like a conventional road or gravel bike, supposedly. Still expensive though. Maybe the battery is too small to give the range I would like though.

  8. #83
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    And now you can get an e-bike that you can talk to.

    https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/ne...es-this-summer
    Too old to ride plastic

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    And now you can get an e-bike that you can talk to.

    https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/ne...es-this-summer
    Oh gawd, no! Stop, stop, please make it stop!!!
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Oh gawd, no! Stop, stop, please make it stop!!!
    That should be, "Alexa, please stop".
    Too old to ride plastic

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfdemicco View Post
    Being a newbie wrt e-bikes, I like the concept behind the Orbea bikes. I don't think I need a lot of power, their hub motor system only adds 8 lbs to the bike, and the bike looks and rides like a conventional road or gravel bike, supposedly. Still expensive though. Maybe the battery is too small to give the range I would like though.
    Typically, I believe that the battery weighs as much as the motor. Also, the majority of the industry has abandoned hub motors for whatever reason. I think it has to do with weight and weight distribution (I'm speculating)

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    Actually, 3 Musketeers is better than Snickers - higher sugar content. When you are starting to see stars, you can actually feel the sugar rush from swallowing a bite of 3 Musketeers.
    It happened to me once. I had white grape juice in a cooler in my car and it was magic. Every gulp was life returning. I’m not advocating grape juice, it’s just what I had on hand, but the experience isn’t something I’ll forget...
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    good lord. i didn't think i needed to spell it out in reference to the subforum traffic on roadbikereview.com.

    my bad.
    FWIW I thought it was downright funny. And no, it didn’t require explanation.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanE View Post
    Any e-bike owners here? I'm interested in recommendations from those with actual experience.

    Hey Moderators - how about an e-bike subforum?
    I agree we need an e-bike forum.

  15. #90
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    Too old to ride plastic

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    Also, the majority of the industry has abandoned hub motors for whatever reason. I think it has to do with weight and weight distribution (I'm speculating)
    has to do with gearing mostly, esp for E mountain bikes. The motors are more efficient at a specified range of rpm, so the gears enable staying in that range. The extremely low power of a legal eBike means that it could not a propel a person up a steep hill without having gears (plus pedal input). Same reason non-ebikes have gears.

    but cruising around flat Amsterdam or Kansas City, a hub motor works fine
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  17. #92
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    ah.... there are hills in KC. You mean Arcola, IL.
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  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    ah.... there are hills in KC. You mean Arcola, IL.
    I'll take your word for it ;)
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    has to do with gearing mostly, esp for E mountain bikes. The motors are more efficient at a specified range of rpm, so the gears enable staying in that range. The extremely low power of a legal eBike means that it could not a propel a person up a steep hill without having gears (plus pedal input). Same reason non-ebikes have gears.

    but cruising around flat Amsterdam or Kansas City, a hub motor works fine
    Actually the first specialized e-bikes were hub motors and worked ok climbing when they worked (the controllers were crap) My wife tried both the Specialized and the Haibike back in 2013 before buying the Haibike.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    I'll take your word for it ;)
    The only reason I had to go there is that it's where the ex hangs out. ... we had kids. OMG!
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  21. #96
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    E-Bikes

    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    has to do with gearing mostly, esp for E mountain bikes. The motors are more efficient at a specified range of rpm, so the gears enable staying in that range. The extremely low power of a legal eBike means that it could not a propel a person up a steep hill without having gears (plus pedal input). Same reason non-ebikes have gears.

    but cruising around flat Amsterdam or Kansas City, a hub motor works fine
    From what I've read, hub motors work quite well for unsuspended class 1 road and gravel bikes, are quiet, and have no drag when off, and have a low Q factor. Bottom bracket motors work better for mountain bikes as the weight is centered and is sprung weight, and have more power for class 3 applications.

    I'm thinking about getting an Orbea Gain M20. This bike just came out and is hard to get. I'm a little concerned that next year, they will make improvements with the drive system so I should wait till next year. What do you think?
    Last edited by mfdemicco; 01-16-2019 at 07:23 AM.

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