E-bikes are Better for Exercise! - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    It's suggesting that they're more about cheap transportation and less about cycling. More to do with getting from here to there cheaply and with as little effort as possible.
    Exactly. Iím not trashing ebikes I've been saying all along that they just arenít bicycles and they will do great in sales but they will not do anything for cycling. They are exploding in the non cycling market. They are good for LBS? But even that, I think total fakes that sell cheap will be the market. Like duriel said and Iím seeing as well, they are getting more stable, wider smoother tires, shorter more squat frames... Not bikes at all. Mopeds. The pedals are just awkward foot pegs. Again, from an all is good green standpoint, sure, they are way better than cars, but they SUCK compared to a bicycle. Electricity has to be made. Batteries have to be disposed. They suck.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    As little effort as possible? Wouldn't that involve sitting in a car in traffic?

    And cheap? Have you seen how much ebikes cost compared to non motorized bikes?
    Yes, cheap transportation. Have you compared the cost of an e-bike to the cost of an automobile.

    You know, for GoB's, "guy on bike" who will now become Goeb "guy on e-bike" or what ever the hell you want to call them. It ain't about being green and it ain't about cycling, it's about getting from here to there as cheaply as possible while not walking or taking the bus. And an e-bike takes less effort than riding a department store bike.

    I see the future, and it's department store e-bikes. Use 'em till they break, then throw them in the land fill. Green my ass.

    I don't see this as making the world a better place for anyone.
    Too old to ride plastic

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    Yes, cheap transportation. Have you compared the cost of an e-bike to the cost of an automobile.

    You know, for GoB's, "guy on bike" who will now become Goeb "guy on e-bike" or what ever the hell you want to call them. It ain't about being green and it ain't about cycling, it's about getting from here to there as cheaply as possible while not walking or taking the bus. And an e-bike takes less effort than riding a department store bike.

    I see the future, and it's department store e-bikes. Use 'em till they break, then throw them in the land fill. Green my ass.

    I don't see this as making the world a better place for anyone.
    Jeez man, being you must really suck...

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    Jeez man, being you must really suck...
    No, not at all. I try and see things for what they are, not for what I'd like them to be.
    Too old to ride plastic

  5. #30
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    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    I don't see this as making the world a better place for anyone.
    From a legal standpoint I see them making great strides. Why does cycling-related legislation and cycling advocacy generally suck? Because cycling is a niche sport and/or hobby in this country. Nowadays you hardly see kids playing outside, let alone mount bicycles and ride them for several miles. More bikes on the roads means motorists will be forced to pay attention to their presence more. Whether or not they like it is one thing, but as more people hop on two wheels among cars, their (the new cyclists) perspectives will shift to align with those of us who have been griping about crappy cycling legislation for years. Maybe bike-car collisions will be treated with stricter liability and harsher penalties. Maybe cyclists like myself won't have to resort to using cameras just for law enforcement to take us seriously.
    Ghurarmu shirkushí agh azgushu. Zant ya apakurizak. GŻl-ní anakhizak.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    In the state of Washington, that is not considered a bicycle but rather a MoPed, which means that the rider needs to have a valid driver's license (though not a motorcycle license). This upsets a lot of potential e-bike customers who have lost their licenses but want one of those bikes they don't have to pedal and can go 40mph.
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  8. #33
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    If (Big If) they are buying eBikes instead of cars, why isn't that being green? Curious! Cars are big pollutants, waaay more than an eBike. I still consider eBikes a form of a motor vehicle though, like a moped or scooter.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical View Post
    If (Big If) they are buying eBikes instead of cars, why isn't that being green? Curious! Cars are big pollutants, waaay more than an eBike. I still consider eBikes a form of a motor vehicle though, like a moped or scooter.
    If they are buying an e-bike instead of a car, they may indeed be being green, but if they are buying an e-bike instead of a bicycle, they are in no way being green.

    Using an e-bike until being able to afford an automobile isn't about being green, whereas using an e-bike instead of an automobile is. Also, using an e-bike to be able to keep up with others isn't about being green, it's about vanity, about the illusion of youth or strength.

    Is the person with only an e-bike for transportation being green? Sure. But if that e-bike is just one in a stable of bikes, not so green. A collection of things, even "green" things doesn't "green" make. Keeping up with the marketing trends isn't green. Green is the use of a product for it's usable life, and then recycling that product when replaced. Green is using a tandem to ride with a partner that is now outpacing you, not getting a driven vehicle, no matter the power source, to keep up.

    Having an e-bike to commute, a road bike for club rides, a gravel bike for dirt road adventure and a mountain bike for single track is not green, it is crass consumerism with the illusion of being green.
    Too old to ride plastic

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by velodog View Post
    If they are buying an e-bike instead of a car, they may indeed be being green, but if they are buying an e-bike instead of a bicycle, they are in no way being green.

    Using an e-bike until being able to afford an automobile isn't about being green, whereas using an e-bike instead of an automobile is. Also, using an e-bike to be able to keep up with others isn't about being green, it's about vanity, about the illusion of youth or strength.

    Is the person with only an e-bike for transportation being green? Sure. But if that e-bike is just one in a stable of bikes, not so green. A collection of things, even "green" things doesn't "green" make. Keeping up with the marketing trends isn't green. Green is the use of a product for it's usable life, and then recycling that product when replaced. Green is using a tandem to ride with a partner that is now outpacing you, not getting a driven vehicle, no matter the power source, to keep up.

    Having an e-bike to commute, a road bike for club rides, a gravel bike for dirt road adventure and a mountain bike for single track is not green, it is crass consumerism with the illusion of being green.
    I get a mental picture of someone loading an e-bike in the back of their Escalade to drive it to a bike path

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    I get a mental picture of someone loading an e-bike in the back of their Escalade to drive it to a bike path
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DaveG again.
    Too old to ride plastic

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    I get a mental picture of someone loading an e-bike in the back of their Escalade to drive it to a bike path
    Their Hybrid Escalade.
    Too old to ride plastic

  13. #38
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    I commute from Virginia into DC every day. I've been doing it for decades. We've got a great system of off the road bike paths, allowing one to ride almost the entire way (33 miles for me) without being in traffic. I've gone from seeing one of these annoying things maybe once a week, to getting buzzed by them several times each way. The big impetus I noticed was when they shut down the train system for an extended period of time (two months) to fix the tracks in Virginia. All the sudden, the numbers of ebikes surged, despite the trail being reserved for non-motorized vehicles. My LBS has more ebikes on the sales floor than real bikes.

    I do notice that most ebike riders are younger people who lack decent bike handling skills. So maybe the 'its getting someone out who wouldn't ride otherwise' argument has something to it. Frankly, that's fine if they stayed off the bike path, but they don't. So ebikes make my life worse. I don't understand why someone who is 30 years younger than me, and appears to be perfectly fit needs a bike with an electric motor on it.

    Its a sad reflection on our society that an electric motor is the biggest up and coming technology to get people out to ride a bicycle.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I commute from Virginia into DC every day. I've been doing it for decades. We've got a great system of off the road bike paths, allowing one to ride almost the entire way (33 miles for me) without being in traffic. I've gone from seeing one of these annoying things maybe once a week, to getting buzzed by them several times each way. The big impetus I noticed was when they shut down the train system for an extended period of time (two months) to fix the tracks in Virginia. All the sudden, the numbers of ebikes surged, despite the trail being reserved for non-motorized vehicles. My LBS has more ebikes on the sales floor than real bikes.

    I do notice that most ebike riders are younger people who lack decent bike handling skills. So maybe the 'its getting someone out who wouldn't ride otherwise' argument has something to it. Frankly, that's fine if they stayed off the bike path, but they don't. So ebikes make my life worse. I don't understand why someone who is 30 years younger than me, and appears to be perfectly fit needs a bike with an electric motor on it.

    Its a sad reflection on our society that an electric motor is the biggest up and coming technology to get people out to ride a bicycle.
    E-bikes are just a temporary measure until they invent those floating reclining chairs like in the movie Wall-E

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I commute from Virginia into DC every day. I've been doing it for decades. We've got a great system of off the road bike paths, allowing one to ride almost the entire way (33 miles for me) without being in traffic. I've gone from seeing one of these annoying things maybe once a week, to getting buzzed by them several times each way. The big impetus I noticed was when they shut down the train system for an extended period of time (two months) to fix the tracks in Virginia. All the sudden, the numbers of ebikes surged, despite the trail being reserved for non-motorized vehicles. My LBS has more ebikes on the sales floor than real bikes.

    I do notice that most ebike riders are younger people who lack decent bike handling skills. So maybe the 'its getting someone out who wouldn't ride otherwise' argument has something to it. Frankly, that's fine if they stayed off the bike path, but they don't. So ebikes make my life worse. I don't understand why someone who is 30 years younger than me, and appears to be perfectly fit needs a bike with an electric motor on it.

    Its a sad reflection on our society that an electric motor is the biggest up and coming technology to get people out to ride a bicycle.
    All this brings up a good question: are e-bikes legally allowed to use paths/trails which are reserved for bicycles? Maybe it depends on how local municipalities define "bicycle", but if e-bikes are considered motorized vehicles, and motorized vehicles are not supposed to use bike lanes/paths, then this is a law enforcement issue (or lack thereof).

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by azpeterb View Post
    All this brings up a good question: are e-bikes legally allowed to use paths/trails which are reserved for bicycles? Maybe it depends on how local municipalities define "bicycle", but if e-bikes are considered motorized vehicles, and motorized vehicles are not supposed to use bike lanes/paths, then this is a law enforcement issue (or lack thereof).
    I don't see how they can be considered anything else but a motorized vehicle. Motorcycles can't be ridden on the bike path. Partly it is an enforcement issue. On my way to work, I travel through two counties and an incorporated city that have potentially different interpretations of what a motorized vehicle is. And even if they were universally banned from the bike path, I doubt it would be enforced. I can spot an ebike in an instant. I doubt most cops can.

    Its tolerable now, but I dread the not too far off day when half the bikes on the bike path are ebikes trying to buzz by me because I can't pedal my bike fast enough up the hills. I already get enough being tailgated by huge SUVs in this area. Does it have to happen on the bike path too?

  17. #42
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    It's down to local laws.

    Here is some info from my state.
    Here's what you need to know about Washington’s new e-bike law - Washington BikesWashington Bikes
    What is an e-bike?
    A bicycle with two or three wheels, a saddle, fully operative pedals for human propulsion, and an electric motor with fewer than 750 watts of power
    What are the three classes of e-bikes?

    1. Class 1: an e-bike that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 mph
    2. Class 2: an e-bike where the motor may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle (without needing to pedal) and is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour
    3. Class 3: an e-bike where the motor provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 mph; also equipped with a speedometer

    Where can I ride my e-bike?

    • It depends on where youíre riding. If your city doesnít have specific laws on the books, the default is that Class 1 and 2 e-bikes can go everywhere traditional bikes can.
    • Class 3 e-bikes are restricted from shared-use pathways, as well as sidewalks. There is an allowance for Class 3 bikes on sidewalks in cases where there is no other safe alternative. Class 3 e-bikes are allowed on infrastructure that is within or adjacent to a highway (street).
    • E-bikes cannot be ridden on a trail that is designated as non-motorized and that has a natural surface made by clearing and grading the native soil with no added surfacing materials. This provision in the legislation was amended to help improve interactions with other types of users on soft-surface single track trails. Exceptions may be made by a local authority or agency of this state that has jurisdiction over a particular trail.

    Are e-bikes allowed on sidewalks?

    • Class 1 and 2 e-bikes are treated as traditional bikes, which means they are allowed on sidewalks, subject to local laws that restrict bicycle riding on sidewalks.
    • Class 3 e-bikes are prohibited on sidewalks except when there is no other safe option for the bikes to travel (for example on a bridge without a trail or other safe place to bike).

  18. #43
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    Using a bicycle for transportation is super green. Using the same bike, with a steel frame, for a long time, is super, super green. An ebike is only green in comparison to using a car for transportation. Iím not sure, but Iíd guess mass transit is likely greener than an ebike. We have a weird kind of programming that electricity is green. It isnít. At least it isnít yet, at least in the US. Batteries suck. Short life and deadly debris, environmentally speaking. Battery tech is our current holy grail. Ebikes wonít improve cycling infrastructure for one very good reason.... they arenít bikes. They will make the case for ebike infrastructure. Thatíll last a day or so until they get regulated and vanish. Anyone see a gas powered moped lately? There is definitely some micro-tiny niche that these are for in cycling. It will account for an incalculable minority of overall sales. POS emopeds sold cheap that go 40mph and have a shelf life of a year will own the market. And then they will hit the landfills. Battery acid and all.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  19. #44
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    Just got back from a vacation to Winter Park, Colorado. Main attraction was to do a bunch of mountain biking (and get butt kicked by 9000ft elevation). On one ride we came upon a dude we dubbed "electric geezer". The guy was 70+ years old and had done an e-bike conversion on a full-susp mountain bike. He also was wearing a backpack, had about 4 phones/computers attached to his handlebars, and was wearing ski goggles with a rearview mirror attachment.

    The guy was super chatty and told us all sorts of wild tales, including something about entering a race (with his e-bike!) and hanging with the "top pros" at the head of the race. Yowza, what a kook!

    There are a lot of retired-with-lotsa-time-and-money folks out there. I predict seeing more and more electric geezers out there.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearDaddy View Post
    Just got back from a vacation to Winter Park, Colorado. Main attraction was to do a bunch of mountain biking (and get butt kicked by 9000ft elevation). On one ride we came upon a dude we dubbed "electric geezer". The guy was 70+ years old and had done an e-bike conversion on a full-susp mountain bike. He also was wearing a backpack, had about 4 phones/computers attached to his handlebars, and was wearing ski goggles with a rearview mirror attachment.

    The guy was super chatty and told us all sorts of wild tales, including something about entering a race (with his e-bike!) and hanging with the "top pros" at the head of the race. Yowza, what a kook!

    There are a lot of retired-with-lotsa-time-and-money folks out there. I predict seeing more and more electric geezers out there.
    Man, no photos of the setup. I'd like to see that bike setup.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    I commute from Virginia into DC every day. I've been doing it for decades. We've got a great system of off the road bike paths, allowing one to ride almost the entire way (33 miles for me) without being in traffic. I've gone from seeing one of these annoying things maybe once a week, to getting buzzed by them several times each way. The big impetus I noticed was when they shut down the train system for an extended period of time (two months) to fix the tracks in Virginia. All the sudden, the numbers of ebikes surged, despite the trail being reserved for non-motorized vehicles. My LBS has more ebikes on the sales floor than real bikes.

    I do notice that most ebike riders are younger people who lack decent bike handling skills. So maybe the 'its getting someone out who wouldn't ride otherwise' argument has something to it. Frankly, that's fine if they stayed off the bike path, but they don't. So ebikes make my life worse. I don't understand why someone who is 30 years younger than me, and appears to be perfectly fit needs a bike with an electric motor on it. https://forums.roadbikereview.com/ne...eply&p=5339791

    Its a sad reflection on our society that an electric motor is the biggest up and coming technology to get people out to ride a bicycle.
    I was on a college campus and there were a lot of those electric scooters, electric skateboard (a 1st for me) and electric wheel thingy. That's why America is so fat. I told my daughter not to ride that crap and do some walking to keep fit.

  22. #47
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    Here's what I find ironic in this thread though. Cyclists are starting to sound just like motorists about cyclists when it comes to eBikes.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical View Post
    Here's what I find ironic in this thread though. Cyclists are starting to sound just like motorists about cyclists when it comes to eBikes.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Methodical again.



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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical View Post
    Here's what I find ironic in this thread though. Cyclists are starting to sound just like motorists about cyclists when it comes to eBikes.
    Hey -- don't think about taking away my God given right to *****.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical View Post
    I was on a college campus and there were a lot of those electric scooters, electric skateboard (a 1st for me) and electric wheel thingy. That's why America is so fat. I told my daughter not to ride that crap and do some walking to keep fit.
    yeah those ebikes and scooters in the 1990s are responsible for America's Obesity problem...




    Meanwhile Ebikes now outsell bikes in the Netherlands .. and their obesity rate remains 12% compared to 38% in the USA, and one of the lowest in EU (and the World)

    https://www.oecd.org/els/health-syst...pdate-2017.pdf
    Last edited by BCSaltchucker; 4 Weeks Ago at 01:38 PM.
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

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