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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    How did I manage to do all the above on a bike without a motor for all those years?

    You are better off pedaling the thing yourself -- especially if its the 'same level of effort', which we all know is BS. It doesn't take that much longer and in a few decades, your heart will thank you.
    I...never said you couldn't do it on a regular bike? I commuted 44 miles/day for a couple years on a road bike. I'm familiar with the concept.

    Let me ask you a question. What's a better workout for my heart? Averaging 200w for 30 minutes on an ebike and going 12 miles or averaging 200w for 30 minutes on a regular bike and going 8 miles?

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by masont View Post
    I...never said you couldn't do it on a regular bike? I commuted 44 miles/day for a couple years on a road bike. I'm familiar with the concept.

    Let me ask you a question. What's a better workout for my heart? Averaging 200w for 30 minutes on an ebike and going 12 miles or averaging 200w for 30 minutes on a regular bike and going 8 miles?
    Iím not taking sides in this debate, but Iím genuinely confused and curious: are you saying that you put out 200w for the entire half hour, and then you add the electric motor power on top of that? If so, HOW FAST ARE YOU GOING?

    Because I canít put out a sustained 200w. Thatís way beyond my FTP. But I can ride all day at 16-18mph, and I can ride in a fast group ride at 20-22mph. And under commuting conditions, I find going much more than 24mph makes it really hard to make the right decisions in traffic all the time. If Iím going 30mph+, Iíd prefer to have a bit more crash protection than I usually have on my road bike.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by fronesis View Post
    Iím not taking sides in this debate, but Iím genuinely confused and curious: are you saying that you put out 200w for the entire half hour, and then you add the electric motor power on top of that? If so, HOW FAST ARE YOU GOING?

    Because I canít put out a sustained 200w. Thatís way beyond my FTP. But I can ride all day at 16-18mph, and I can ride in a fast group ride at 20-22mph. And under commuting conditions, I find going much more than 24mph makes it really hard to make the right decisions in traffic all the time. If Iím going 30mph+, Iíd prefer to have a bit more crash protection than I usually have on my road bike.
    e-bikes have different assist levels, and keep in mind the aero drag of sitting in a hybrid position at higher speeds compared to that of a road bike. I typically ride mine on the lowest assist level, and ratchet it up for the hills or if I want to go the speed of traffic in town. I'm cruising in the low 20's usually.

  4. #79
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    I bought a BMC Amp Cross this past winter for commuting. Very similar story to Masont.

    My commute is 16 miles. About 2/3 of it is pan flat, and the last 1/3 is up a pretty long steep hill.

    When I was commuting on my road bike, I would get to work in about 1 hour, sometimes a little longer depending on hitting green lights and how frisky I was feeling.

    On the e-bike, which is a Class 1, which is pedal assist up to 17mph or so, I get there in just about the same amount of time.

    The difference is, the E-Bike takes the grunt work out of that long climb on my way to work, meaning Im not drenched in sweat at the start of my day.

    On the road bike, I ride along at about 18-20mph on the flats, but drop down to a crawl on the climb.

    On the e-bike, I max out at 17mph on the flats, and so i'm a few mph slower than I am on the road bike. However, I'm in ECO mode during this part of the ride, and am alway pushing against the assist limit for the entire duration.

    The only time I'm faster on the E-bike is on theh climb, which I can do at 13mph to 15mph in Turbo mode. I'm still obviously pedaling, and getting a decent morning workout, but I'm getting to work not drenched in sweat, even though I'm getting there in about the same amount of time.

    I used a set of power meter pedals and a HRM for a few weeks when riding the ebike, and found that my average power (into the pedals) and my average HR over the duration of the ride a pretty close (within 10% or so) of my road bike commutes.

    The Ebike is really fun to ride too. I use it occasionaly to go grab groceries or a quick bite to eat, or just run errands around town. I don't need to get kitted up to ride it, and it can haul a heavy load (panniers) when needed. I was quite skeptical at first, but a friend has one and based on his experiences I decided to give it a try.

    It's not at all what most people think. You are still riding the bike, and putting effort into the pedals. At best, they take the edge off of steep climbs, but it's not like you are riding a moped. It's still very much like riding a bike.

    The modified bikes that don't require pedaling are mopeds. By law, in most states, they require a license to ride on the road, and are not allowed on MUTs. Same goes for class 3 bikes (28mph pedal assist). These things are too fast and heavy to be riding among slower pedestrian traffic.

    My only complaints about my E-bike are the initial cost, the weight, and the lack of range. Additionally, the battery is expensive ($600) and is only good for about 500 cycles (two years of riding). They do have a two year warranty, and the shop I got mine at has said they will replace it under warranty if the run time degrades significantly inside the warranty period.

    As I said, I was skeptical about these things too, and took great joy in passing them on my human powered road bike (and still do). However, having been riding one regularly for a few months now, I definitely see the benefits. I commute more often (about double what I did on my road bike), so I'm taking a car out of the gridlock traffic, easing the strain on the overflowing office parking lot, and improving my health and well being all at the same time.
    Last edited by Finx; 06-25-2019 at 06:32 AM.

  5. #80
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    So first ebike rider wearing a helmet today! He appeared to be commuting and operating his vehicle safely in rush hour traffic. He was doing a realistic speed and riding in a way a cyclist would under the circumstances. His vehicle didnít make much of an attempt to look like a bicycle... Clearly a moped, motorbike. And, again, not a single pedal rotation!
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  6. #81
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    I did a ride Sunday afternoon on my MUP, the Schuylkill River Trail from Conshohocken to Audubon and back.

    I saw several ebikes. Most were piloted by overweight people wearing sandals and whizzing along at 20+ mph while texting and doing other important phone-related tasks.

    I can deal with a few of these clueless goofballs on the MUT.

    ... The same way I could deal with a few rollerbladers back in the early 90s when that idiocy was first appearing on my MUP. That got really ugly by the mid 90s... herds of rollerbladers, all with their ears plugged completely with earbuds, two and three abreast, swinging their arms to and fro, like Hans Brinker (Or the Silver Skates). The rollerbladers actually got totally PO'd off at us cyclists, like we were ruining a rollerblading path made just for them.

    My fear is that the clueless texting ebike crowd will soon glut the MUP, the way the rollerbladers did for a few years.

    So a few ebikes here and there, no big deal. But when I get in touch with my martinet side, my "Trooper With an Attitude" side, I want to point out that the signs that say NO MOTOR VEHICLES at every entrance to the MUP mean No Motors. Period.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPlKE View Post
    I did a ride Sunday afternoon on my MUP, the Schuylkill River Trail from Conshohocken to Audubon and back.

    I saw several ebikes. Most were piloted by overweight people wearing sandals and whizzing along at 20+ mph while texting and doing other important phone-related tasks.

    I can deal with a few of these clueless goofballs on the MUT.

    ... The same way I could deal with a few rollerbladers back in the early 90s when that idiocy was first appearing on my MUP. That got really ugly by the mid 90s... herds of rollerbladers, all with their ears plugged completely with earbuds, two and three abreast, swinging their arms to and fro, like Hans Brinker (Or the Silver Skates). The rollerbladers actually got totally PO'd off at us cyclists, like we were ruining a rollerblading path made just for them.

    My fear is that the clueless texting ebike crowd will soon glut the MUP, the way the rollerbladers did for a few years.

    So a few ebikes here and there, no big deal. But when I get in touch with my martinet side, my "Trooper With an Attitude" side, I want to point out that the signs that say NO MOTOR VEHICLES at every entrance to the MUP mean No Motors. Period.
    Itís more a skaters trail than a cyclists. Cyclists donít belong on MUTs. Skaters should be dancing along, strollers should be everywhere, walkers, skateboarders, training wheels... It is their MUT first. Ebikes will only get bikes banners faster. And thatís the right disposition.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    Itís more a skaters trail than a cyclists. Cyclists donít belong on MUTs. Skaters should be dancing along, strollers should be everywhere, walkers, skateboarders, training wheels... It is their MUT first. Ebikes will only get bikes banners faster. And thatís the right disposition.
    My MUP was originally called a Bike Path back in the 80s when they first paved over the old Pennsylvania Railroad tracks from Manayunk to Valley Forge.

    It's wide enough that when all the strollers, skaters, dogs, toddlers on riding toys, etc, etc, are there on saturday and sunday afternoons, there's still lots of room for bikes.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPlKE View Post
    It's wide enough that when all the strollers, skaters, dogs, toddlers on riding toys, etc, etc, are there on saturday and sunday afternoons, there's still lots of room for bikes.
    You gotta find better places to ride than depend on that stuff. Granted, MUPs, or Greenways as they're called in my parts, lend themselves to a nice kind of ride in themselves. But you can't detour much. And this is roadbikereview.com, not hybridreview.com

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    So first ebike rider wearing a helmet today! He appeared to be commuting and operating his vehicle safely in rush hour traffic. He was doing a realistic speed and riding in a way a cyclist would under the circumstances. His vehicle didnít make much of an attempt to look like a bicycle... Clearly a moped, motorbike. And, again, not a single pedal rotation!
    So, not really an ebike rider then?

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by ogre View Post
    You gotta find better places to ride than depend on that stuff. Granted, MUPs, or Greenways as they're called in my parts, lend themselves to a nice kind of ride in themselves. But you can't detour much. And this is roadbikereview.com, not hybridreview.com
    The one I ride is a highway for bikes, and was conceived as such when they began work on it 40 years ago. I've been riding it since it first opened between Manayunk (NW philly neighborhood) and Valley Forge.

    Because it's the old Pennsylvania RR tracks along the Schuylkill River, it's about as flat, wide and direct between Philadelphia and outlying towns like Valley Forge, Phoenixville, Trooper, Audubon, Norristown, Manayunk, Conshohocken, etc... it's actually a great bike commuting route.

    Except for a few 'family time outside' hours during nice spring and summer weekend afternoons near the parking lot at Valley Forge National Park, the 30 miles I ride is pretty much bicycles going from point A to point B and back.

    I'll probably use it to commute between my house in Conshohocken to a contract gig in Manayunk, about 8 miles away, right along the MUP.

  12. #87
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    One more today, wearing helmet, commuting. Riding local roads easily in the drivers side tire track. No hand or turn signals, obviously, and this thing had plenty of speed. Once again, not a single pedal revolution. These things are exploding in popularity! But I have yet to see anything that resembles cycling.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    One more today, wearing helmet, commuting. Riding local roads easily in the drivers side tire track. No hand or turn signals, obviously, and this thing had plenty of speed. Once again, not a single pedal revolution. These things are exploding in popularity! But I have yet to see anything that resembles cycling.
    These people aren't riding bicycles.

    Why aren't you posting this on the Moped forums?

    Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPlKE View Post
    My MUP was originally called a Bike Path back in the 80s when they first paved over the old Pennsylvania Railroad tracks from Manayunk to Valley Forge.

    It's wide enough that when all the strollers, skaters, dogs, toddlers on riding toys, etc, etc, are there on saturday and sunday afternoons, there's still lots of room for bikes.
    Gotta go very early in the morning, especially on Sundays and you won't run into all of those folks. You go in the afternoon and you run into all that traffic.

  15. #90
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    Seven reasons why Cyclists should ebrace E-Bikes (according to Chris Carmichael)

    https://trainright.com/ebikes-reasons-cyclists-should-embrace-electric-bikes/

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    Seven reasons why Cyclists should ebrace E-Bikes (according to Chris Carmichael)

    https://trainright.com/ebikes-reasons-cyclists-should-embrace-electric-bikes/
    8. Cheaper than CTS
    Too old to ride plastic

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    Seven reasons why Cyclists should ebrace E-Bikes (according to Chris Carmichael)

    https://trainright.com/ebikes-reasons-cyclists-should-embrace-electric-bikes/
    Gwen Jorgenson rides one all over the place too. I'd love to see the moped crowd tell her she's lazy as they commute in their cars.

  18. #93
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    There's an older guy who rides an Orbea electric-assist bike in my club. I guess it keeps him riding, but there seems to be little velocity regulation on that thing. As soon as he turns the pedals, he shoots forward.....then coasts.....then shoots forward....then coasts. Makes it nearly impossible to ride with a group.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by masont View Post
    Gwen Jorgenson rides one all over the place too. I'd love to see the moped crowd tell her she's lazy as they commute in their cars.
    No offense, but that doesnít really make any sense. An endurance athlete rides an ebike so she isnít lazy? I may be missing something... If she road a motorcycle or even a horse to do errands she is equally less lazy?

    IME the fitness reference in that Carmichael article is laughable.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

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