A game changer for e-bike design?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27
  1. #1
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: nova_rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    175

    A game changer for e-bike design?

    The bike is nice, but it's the propulsion design that intrigues...

    https://newatlas.com/nua-electrica-stealth-ebike/59481/

  2. #2
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Akirasho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,433
    I would think that there are motor/power combos that have yet to reach cycling, either because of cost or the perception that R&D needs to focus on larger vehicles (cars, buses, trains).

    It's the tradeoff of our economic system. Some person can see how to apply a combo to a bike but development focuses on reaping profit outta hub motors for the next gen AMG... it doesn't translate backwards economically (light weight, high torque, high efficiency motor that can be sold to Mercedes at $4k each) at least not in the foreseeable (we will continue to see development with shelf components as opposed to bleeding edge).

    Ironically, the most efficient path might be bicycle (as a people mover), but we are wired for cars first in the US (and a lot of the emerging world... India sells a car that retails for a couple grand USD but could not come close to passing emissions and crash in the US). Baby steps?

  3. #3
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    531
    Quote Originally Posted by nova_rider View Post
    The bike is nice, but it's the propulsion design that intrigues...

    https://newatlas.com/nua-electrica-stealth-ebike/59481/
    I'm honestly glad to see this kind of tech being moved forward. Current E-Bikes are too heavy and inefficient.

    That design is very light, but it's not much power at 160wh (30km/18miles of assist), and all of the weight is at the rear, which will affect handling negatively.

    I've been commuting on a very heavy BMC E-Bike all spring, and I love it more that I should probably admit, but the bike is too heavy (45lbs) and the battery takes too long to re-charge to full (~6hrs) for it to be an all around bike. Also, the battery will cost $600 to replace, and is only good for about 500 cycles (two years or so of regular use).

    I'm looking forward to see what motor and battery tech and engineering/design improvements bring in a few years. I would love to have a relatively light mid-drive Class-1 bike that can give pedal assist for several hours and recharge quickly.

  4. #4
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
    Reputation: rideit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    961
    All valid points, but I believe that we are just at the beginning of exploring these technologies.
    My bet is in ten years we will have 25 pound ebikes that will go 50 miles on a charge (with regenerative charging) for ~$3k.
    Iíll have my wallet out.

  5. #5
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    531
    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    All valid points, but I believe that we are just at the beginning of exploring these technologies.
    My bet is in ten years we will have 25 pound ebikes that will go 50 miles on a charge (with regenerative charging) for ~$3k.
    Iíll have my wallet out.
    I don't think it will take 10 years to get to 25lbs @50 miles for $3k.

    It's by far the fastest growing market, and it a technology that promises to bring more people into cycling (something that the industry desperately needs).

    When I pull into the office on my E-Bike, I get a lot of inquisitive looks, and questions from people who are not cyclists. We have some new cycling infrastructure going in to the area that combined with E-Bikes will make it possible for a lot more people - non-cyclist type people, to ride their bikes to work. This kind of thing gets a lot of attention from city planners, transportation departments, and elected officials.

    Now if I can just get my employer to add a secure bike storage area and some new showers and lockers, I'll be happy.

  6. #6
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: BCSaltchucker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,049
    bah 45 lbs is superduper ultralight compared the the lightest scooter or motorcycle. I like the recent Look ebike offerings, and the promised lightweight Bafang M800 road bike too, which reportedly only weighs 10 lbs more than a normal road bike (so about 28lbs), and can remove the battery and ride around like a non ebike...



    https://ebiketips.road.cc/content/ne...800-motor-1664
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  7. #7
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
    Reputation: rideit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    961
    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    I don't think it will take 10 years to get to 25lbs @50 miles for $3k.

    It's by far the fastest growing market, and it a technology that promises to bring more people into cycling (something that the industry desperately needs).

    When I pull into the office on my E-Bike, I get a lot of inquisitive looks, and questions from people who are not cyclists. We have some new cycling infrastructure going in to the area that combined with E-Bikes will make it possible for a lot more people - non-cyclist type people, to ride their bikes to work. This kind of thing gets a lot of attention from city planners, transportation departments, and elected officials.

    Now if I can just get my employer to add a secure bike storage area and some new showers and lockers, I'll be happy.
    Ok, three years and 5$k.

  8. #8
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: OldZaskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,232
    All in favor of an E-Bike sub-forum raise your hand.

  9. #9
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Akirasho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,433
    Quote Originally Posted by OldZaskar View Post
    All in favor of an E-Bike sub-forum raise your hand.
    Ö only if this forum in general remains... relevant.

  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    531
    Quote Originally Posted by OldZaskar View Post
    All in favor of an E-Bike sub-forum raise your hand.
    how about we just give you your own private little subforum where you can hang out and no one else will come bother you with any current cycling topics?

  11. #11
    pmf
    pmf is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    5,148
    Before ebikes were all the rage, you could buy just a wheel with a motor in it and convert your bike. I recall seeing a woman using one on the bike path I commute on maybe 10 years ago.

    I still think the best bikes are those without electric motors.

  12. #12
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: PBL450's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,135
    FWIW, Iím starting to see them all over the place now. I have yet to see a rider pedaling. And I mean pedaling AT ALL! Zero. They are going 30+ on highway shoulders.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  13. #13
    a real member's member
    Reputation: blackfrancois's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    3,843
    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    I have yet to see a rider pedaling. And I mean pedaling AT ALL! Zero. They are going 30+ on highway shoulders.
    "zoinks!"
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  14. #14
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: OldZaskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    2,232
    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    how about we just give you your own private little subforum where you can hang out and no one else will come bother you with any current cycling topics?
    What do you have against e-bikes? We have sub-forums for Cyclocross, Gravel, Fixed/Single Speed, Retro... The e-bike segment is the fastest growing. Seems we're going to have more and more discussion on the topic.

  15. #15
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    8,911
    Quote Originally Posted by pmf View Post
    Before ebikes were all the rage, you could buy just a wheel with a motor in it and convert your bike. I recall seeing a woman using one on the bike path I commute on maybe 10 years ago.
    Are you talking about a Copenhagen Wheel? https://www.superpedestrian.com/en/tech

    I hear they actually work pretty well but don't know. Incidentally I don't recall seeing any of them in Copenhagen, but have seen a few around Boston.

  16. #16
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    5,236
    Quote Originally Posted by OldZaskar View Post
    What do you have against e-bikes? We have sub-forums for Cyclocross, Gravel, Fixed/Single Speed, Retro... The e-bike segment is the fastest growing. Seems we're going to have more and more discussion on the topic.
    I have mixed feeling on this. RBR appears to be on its death bed giving the current low traffic. So, on the one hand, this might increase traffic and keep RBR alive; on the other hand, RBR will becomes "E-bikes and politics"

  17. #17
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: troutmd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    23,816
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    I have mixed feeling on this. RBR appears to be on its death bed giving the current low traffic. So, on the one hand, this might increase traffic and keep RBR alive; on the other hand, RBR will becomes "E-bikes and politics"
    Based upon other ebike treads its reasonable to conclude politics has already enter into the discussion on RBR.

    A separate sub-forum makes sense to me to keep the RBR doors open for business.
    I am 100% convinced the internet and social media are not the salvation to human civility.

  18. #18
    pmf
    pmf is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    5,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Strongbow View Post
    Are you talking about a Copenhagen Wheel? https://www.superpedestrian.com/en/tech

    I hear they actually work pretty well but don't know. Incidentally I don't recall seeing any of them in Copenhagen, but have seen a few around Boston.
    I asked about it once ... made in Germany and went for around $500. Like many ebikes, the hub was large and had a controller that clamped onto the handlebar. Reallt no different than an ebike, except it wasn't pedal assist. And I too don't understand why all ebikes have to be so heavy and clunky.

  19. #19
    Banned forever.....or not
    Reputation: MR_GRUMPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    24,093
    Those would be illegal conversions. In the U.S. and Canada, once you hit 31 or 32 kph, the electric motor turns off. Since this is America, damnit, you have the right to shoot those lawbreakers.
    If your opinion differs from mine, ..........Too bad.
    .
    How would you like it if Hitler killed you
    Dogbert.

    I>U

    Buying parts to hang on your bike is always easier than getting fit.

    If you feel wimpy and weak, get out and train more, ya wee lassie!

    If Jesus had a gun, he'd be alive today!

  20. #20
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: BCSaltchucker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2,049
    well they are legal if configured to be legal: Pedelec + 32kph limit + No throttle switch. I've used one myself and honestly find them much better to use in Pedelec and also at lower speeds so the battery doesn't drain out too quick. I understand some jurisdictions have cracked down on the illegal ebikes too, like in NYC
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  21. #21
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    531
    I'm pretty sure each state has e-bike their own e-bike laws, but I'm pretty sure they all use the same classifications.

    This is Washington States laws
    Here's what you need to know about Washington’s new e-bike law - Washington BikesWashington Bikes

    Here is an excerpt
    What is an e-bike?
    A bicycle with two or three wheels, a saddle, fully operative pedals for human propulsion, and an electric motor with fewer than 750 watts of power
    What are the three classes of e-bikes?

    1. Class 1: an e-bike that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 mph
    2. Class 2: an e-bike where the motor may be used exclusively to propel the bicycle (without needing to pedal) and is not capable of providing assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour
    3. Class 3: an e-bike where the motor provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and ceases to provide assistance when the bicycle reaches the speed of 28 mph; also equipped with a speedometer

    Where can I ride my e-bike?

    • It depends on where youíre riding. If your city doesnít have specific laws on the books, the default is that Class 1 and 2 e-bikes can go everywhere traditional bikes can.
    • Class 3 e-bikes are restricted from shared-use pathways, as well as sidewalks. There is an allowance for Class 3 bikes on sidewalks in cases where there is no other safe alternative. Class 3 e-bikes are allowed on infrastructure that is within or adjacent to a highway (street).
    • E-bikes cannot be ridden on a trail that is designated as non-motorized and that has a natural surface made by clearing and grading the native soil with no added surfacing materials. This provision in the legislation was amended to help improve interactions with other types of users on soft-surface single track trails. Exceptions may be made by a local authority or agency of this state that has jurisdiction over a particular trail.

    Are e-bikes allowed on sidewalks?

    • Class 1 and 2 e-bikes are treated as traditional bikes, which means they are allowed on sidewalks, subject to local laws that restrict bicycle riding on sidewalks.
    • Class 3 e-bikes are prohibited on sidewalks except when there is no other safe option for the bikes to travel (for example on a bridge without a trail or other safe place to bike).

    How fast do e-bikes travel compared to traditional bikes?

    • The top assisted speeds of 20 mph and 28 mph can be deceiving. E-bikes typically resemble traditional bikes in function and average speed. Studies suggest a difference of 0-5 mph between a traditional bike and e-bike.
    • Itís important to note that like motor vehicles, most people biking are not typically traveling at top speed at all times. This is the same for e-bikes.

  22. #22
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    531
    I've been commuting on a Class-1 E-Bike all spring, and my average speed is similar to when I commuted on my conventional bike last summer.

    My particular bike the assist cuts off at about 17mph. At that point, I'm dragging a 40lb bike around solely under human power (it's a good workout).

    For giggles, I've been using my power meter pedals and HR monitor to see how much work I'm doing compared to when I ride my traditional bike. The answer is, it depends. If I am pushing the bike above the assisted speed, my power output and HR is typically a little higher than it is on a traditional bike over flat ground. On my conventional bike, I am several MPH faster for the same effort on decents or flat terrain. The E-bike is obviosly faster in climbs where my speeds on the conventional bike are below 17mph.

    So, on the E-Bike, I'm slower on decents and flats, and faster on the steep climbs.

    Typically, my commute takes me about 1 hour, regardless of what bike I ride. With the e-bike, I just get there much less sweaty, and my aging, arthritic knees thank me every day.

  23. #23
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    611
    And it recharges the battery with regenerative braking, and also sips a bit of power from you when you're pedaling along the flat or going downhill. The company says if you leave it in this mode, you can get around indefinitely without ever charging the thing
    So, if you don't plug it in, you're using your leg power, to turn a generator, or climbing a hill and then using the same generator to recharge the battery. You'd have loss in efficiency in the drivetrain, plus loss in the generation of electricity and again when you use it, which doesn't sound like that great of a deal.

    To "get around indefinitely without ever charging the thing", you'd be better off sticking a conventional rear wheel in it. If you wanted it to help out on the climbs, then just charge it.

  24. #24
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: nova_rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    175
    Quote Originally Posted by harryman View Post
    So, if you don't plug it in, you're using your leg power, to turn a generator, or climbing a hill and then using the same generator to recharge the battery. You'd have loss in efficiency in the drivetrain, plus loss in the generation of electricity and again when you use it, which doesn't sound like that great of a deal.

    To "get around indefinitely without ever charging the thing", you'd be better off sticking a conventional rear wheel in it. If you wanted it to help out on the climbs, then just charge it.
    The idea behind this is that while you are pedalling around on flat or coasting down a hill, it's charging/topping off the battery so when you do want it, it is available.

    This is not intend to replace a charger. But if it come to having to drag a dead conventional e-bike up a hill or have the ability to add some juice on the run, I'll take the latter any day.

  25. #25
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    621
    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    FWIW, Iím starting to see them all over the place now. I have yet to see a rider pedaling. And I mean pedaling AT ALL! Zero. They are going 30+ on highway shoulders.
    This is definitely a true statement you totally didn't just make up.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Game changer - Santorum wins Iowa
    By terry b in forum Politics Only
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 01-22-2012, 10:04 PM
  2. New Chinese "game-changer" missile now operational.
    By Alpha & Omega in forum Politics Only
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 12-30-2010, 11:03 PM
  3. 90's R&B Girl Groups - a game changer for me.
    By T-shirt in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-20-2010, 06:32 PM
  4. Ubuntu - a game changer for me
    By asciibaron in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 08-18-2010, 05:06 AM
  5. Brim Brothers - A power meter game changer?
    By labmonkey526 in forum General Cycling Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-20-2010, 05:19 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT ROADBIKEREVIEW

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.