A good innovation - SRAM eTap
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  1. #1
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    A good innovation - SRAM eTap

    Now, see, here's an innovation that, unlike disc brakes in every regard, makes life easier, requires fewer tools/skills, fewer trips to the bike shop, and can make bikes lighter, (admittedly minimally) more aero, and easier to manufacture - aka a good thing for everyone:

    2015 Velo Awards: SRAM eTap is Innovation of Year - VeloNews.com

    THIS would be worth early-adopting!
    Well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion man. - The Dude

  2. #2
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    I'm not convinced of its durability, especially of the electro-mechanical servo parts. And being this is Sram's first edition, I fully expect issues will arise, design will change, and it becomes obsolete fast (like the Di 7090 stuff). So no, I'm not adopting eTap, not when other groupsets like Shimano 5800 and 6800 are working so well, and at a fraction of the price. One thing I've learned about anything "electronic" is that it will go obsolete much quicker than anything mechanical. That's the nature of electronics.

    I do like the clean look of wireless, but it's not a top priority for me.

  3. #3
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    Now, see, here's an innovation that, unlike disc brakes in every regard, makes life easier, requires fewer tools/skills, fewer trips to the bike shop, and can make bikes lighter, (admittedly minimally) more aero, and easier to manufacture - aka a good thing for everyone:

    2015 Velo Awards: SRAM eTap is Innovation of Year - VeloNews.com

    THIS would be worth early-adopting!
    You just discovered tTap now? People have been talking about it for over a year.

    As for 'first edition' skeptics, SRAM has been real-world testing the stuff for over 2 years. The parts that I worked with in July looked production ready in every way. It is indeed very easy to work with. Battery life is great. I doubt there will be any problems with it. Not sure how it can become 'obsolete' quicker than anything mechanical, all it does is shift gears. It's already wireless so there aren't any upgrades to be made on connection hardware like Shimano did. I would imagine that any improvements will be made through firmware flashes.
    #promechaniclife

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    I highly doubt any frame manufacturers are going to make eTap specific frames to "save weight" or whatever SRAM claims they can do.

    Edit: Until all 3 electronic groups are wireless and it trickles down to the Ultegra/Force level.
    Last edited by deviousalex; 01-02-2016 at 03:18 PM.

  5. #5
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    It's all good except the price

    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    Now, see, here's an innovation that, unlike disc brakes in every regard, makes life easier, requires fewer tools/skills, fewer trips to the bike shop, and can make bikes lighter, (admittedly minimally) more aero, and easier to manufacture - aka a good thing for everyone:

    2015 Velo Awards: SRAM eTap is Innovation of Year - VeloNews.com

    THIS would be worth early-adopting!
    The only thing keeping me from trying is the high cost it does seem cleverly designed but I'm too cheap to drop that kind of money on a group. I guess I could clean out my daughters college fund...

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    Except it's SRAM.

    No thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalbiker View Post
    Except it's SRAM.

    No thanks.
    Yep. When Shimano gets there with Ultegra or 105, I'm in.

    Talked to a mechanic and he raved about SRAM wireless. And it was 100% based on ease of installation. Not sure he had any knowledge on how well it worked or durability.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    Now, see, here's an innovation that, unlike disc brakes in every regard, makes life easier, requires fewer tools/skills, fewer trips to the bike shop, and can make bikes lighter, (admittedly minimally) more aero, and easier to manufacture - aka a good thing for everyone:

    2015 Velo Awards: SRAM eTap is Innovation of Year - VeloNews.com

    THIS would be worth early-adopting!


    A solution looking for a problem. Mechanical is adequate. The manufacturers are just trying to sell you something so they can make more money




    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    A solution looking for a problem. Mechanical is adequate. The manufacturers are just trying to sell you something so they can make more money




    .
    Adequate? Down tube shifters were adequate as were many other innovations.

    Personally not have to replace cables or adjust them occasionally is a selling point to me.

    BUT - that's only at a reasonable price point and proven technology. Sadly at my age, I'll probably never know.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoPho View Post
    A solution looking for a problem. Mechanical is adequate. The manufacturers are just trying to sell you something so they can make more money




    .
    When asked what was the most significant improvement in bike tech in the last 30 years, Steve Tilford, who has probably raced more than any other person in the world, said electronic shifting. People who think it's a gimmick haven't used it. Sram's wireless setup is a nice step forward and it's solid.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevesbike View Post
    When asked what was the most significant improvement in bike tech in the last 30 years, Steve Tilford, who has probably raced more than any other person in the world, said electronic shifting. People who think it's a gimmick haven't used it. Sram's wireless setup is a nice step forward and it's solid.
    Most significant improvement? That seems a bit exaggerated. My feeling is that clipless pedals and integrated brake/shifting have been the 2 biggest innovations in the last 30 years. I am not arguing against electric shifting but from a functional perspective its just an improvement upon integrated shifting. I would put the half dozen new BB "standards" as about 587th on the list

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    Quote Originally Posted by MerlinAma View Post
    Adequate? Down tube shifters were adequate as were many other innovations.

    Personally not have to replace cables or adjust them occasionally is a selling point to me.

    BUT - that's only at a reasonable price point and proven technology. Sadly at my age, I'll probably never know.
    Quote Originally Posted by stevesbike View Post
    When asked what was the most significant improvement in bike tech in the last 30 years, Steve Tilford, who has probably raced more than any other person in the world, said electronic shifting. People who think it's a gimmick haven't used it. Sram's wireless setup is a nice step forward and it's solid.



    I was being sarcastic. My comments were the same arguments the OP (and others) uses against disc brakes, they are all applicable towards electronic shifting just the same, but apparently only tech he deems worthy isn't a scam by the manufacturers to get more money out of consumers



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    I'll have to see how well it works before forming an opinion. My skepticism comes from the lag time of the wireless shifting on my indoor bike. While it works entirely differently, I've not experienced anything blue tooth or ant plus that has close to the response time of wired systems.

    This becomes a problem when quick transitions require multiple rapid shifts.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldChipper View Post
    Now, see, here's an innovation that, unlike disc brakes in every regard, makes life easier, requires fewer tools/skills, fewer trips to the bike shop, and can make bikes lighter, (admittedly minimally) more aero, and easier to manufacture - aka a good thing for everyone:

    2015 Velo Awards: SRAM eTap is Innovation of Year - VeloNews.com

    THIS would be worth early-adopting!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftSolo View Post
    I'll have to see how well it works before forming an opinion. My skepticism comes from the lag time of the wireless shifting on my indoor bike. While it works entirely differently, I've not experienced anything blue tooth or ant plus that has close to the response time of wired systems.

    This becomes a problem when quick transitions require multiple rapid shifts.
    Radio waves travel at the speed of light, so you should not notice lag time.

  15. #15
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    A good innovation - SRAM eTap

    Early adopter of SRAM, good luck w that. They have such a great history on first gen products. Lol



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    I agree a wireless solution is a better idea that the rat's nest of wires and cludgy batteries that is the Shimano/Campy solution. Converting an existing frame from mechanical to something like Di2 has never seemed like a feasible idea. Converting from mechanical to a wireless solution like ETap without buying a new frame seems much more plausible. Also, flat out removing the need to route/maintain cables is a significant advantage over mechanical.

    However, I also agree that the incremental performance gain over regular ol' mechanical shifting to me isn't worth the expense at this time. Perhaps when I can get reliable wireless shifting in a group at the $1,000 price point, I'll reconsider.

  17. #17
    tka
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    As a wireless developer I think this is one of the worst possible applications for a wireless system. Anything that needs real-time control shouldn't be wireless. But that's just my opinion from 30+ years of developing wireless systems.

  18. #18
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by tka View Post
    As a wireless developer I think this is one of the worst possible applications for a wireless system. Anything that needs real-time control shouldn't be wireless. But that's just my opinion from 30+ years of developing wireless systems.
    Care to explain?
    #promechaniclife

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    I have been reading nothing but positive reviews on the etap system. Once the price drops to around a grand I'm in also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalbiker View Post
    Except it's SRAM.

    No thanks.
    this is like the chevy guy with the pee on ford decal

    i think the real shortcoming is ... 'except it is only available in Red'

    I am not committed to any brand, have always loved Shimano ... but somehow I am riding SRAM on my 2 main bikes now. and liking it

  21. #21
    'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    this is like the chevy guy with the pee on ford decal

    i think the real shortcoming is ... 'except it is only available in Red'

    I am not committed to any brand, have always loved Shimano ... but somehow I am riding SRAM on my 2 main bikes now. and liking it
    [email protected] seems to be pretty level headed most of the time, but he does have a disdain for SRAM that borders on the ridiculous. But that's his perogative. It does make me wonder what happened that causes him to not like it, maybe he'll enlighten us one day.
    #promechaniclife

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tka View Post
    As a wireless developer I think this is one of the worst possible applications for a wireless system. Anything that needs real-time control shouldn't be wireless. But that's just my opinion from 30+ years of developing wireless systems.
    That may have been true in the past but the world is changing fast and you're going to see a lot of real-time control wireless systems in the coming years. It's inevitable. Nobody wants to deal with wires these days. (My $.02, YMMV, KMA, etc...)
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  23. #23
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    As a lucky LBS employee who got to test ride E-Tap for over twenty minutes when our SRAM rep brought a Scott equipped bike over for us to demo it, I really, really, liked it. The shop I work at deals with a large volume of Di2 bikes and customers who run Di2. It feels like I have pushed those buttons twenty thousand times. Installed dozens from scratch, and done more firmware updates than I can handle. The E-Tap felt better to me in every way. The one thing I've always disliked about Di2 is it feels like you are pushing a button on a TV remote. No perception that a solid shift is actually happening, and I've always felt that the front derailleur shifted too slow. E-tap has incorporated a tactile feedback response at the shift buttons that to me feel so good. Like you are really shifting something. Much the same as the difference between Shimano and SRAM mechanical. Shimano is light and refined. Sram SLAMS into the gear of choice and I love that about Sram. Interchangeable batteries between front and rear derailleurs, No freaking mess of battery mounts, A junction, B junction, and 5 or more tangled wires? What is not to like? Oh, and the front shift is lightening fast.

  24. #24
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    I don't see why people hated setting up Di2 wires. Once I made that little routing tool to do it internally it was super easy. I don't see how it's any harder than mechanical. Sure, if you're doing it day in day out it's annoying. But is wireless with 4 batteries worth the tradeoff? Maybe as mechanic you think so because it's easier for you to set it up but the user may feel differently when they are constantly making sure that 4 batteries are charged.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevesbike View Post
    When asked what was the most significant improvement in bike tech in the last 30 years, Steve Tilford, who has probably raced more than any other person in the world, said electronic shifting. People who think it's a gimmick haven't used it. Sram's wireless setup is a nice step forward and it's solid.
    When comparing a top bike today to a top bike 30 years ago, the bike today goes faster both on the flat and on the hills is due to
    1. carbon fiber usage
    2. which leads to aero shaping
    3. today's tires and wheels are faster

    Does eTap (the most significant tech according to Tilford) enable the most significant gain in performance? I assume performance in gain is important to a racer like Tilford? Sounds like Tilford is just impressed with something new that he has never seen before, but that's about it about his opinion.

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