Hit a pedestrian on the Brooklyn Bridge yesterday - 6pm - Page 4
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  1. #76
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    Sorry to hear about the accident.

    Judging from how it happened (you flew off and landed 15 feet away from your bike / no time to react), you couldn't have been going THAT slow. Just saying.

    The lady shouldn't have stepped out into the bike lane, though. I will never bike across the BK bridge unless its very early in the morning.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycoBob View Post
    Ditto! And our society is full of such scum. (Even a disgusting relative of mine).

    Thank goodness it wasn't another NYer that he hit- the lawsuit would have been filed before the cops even got there. Our own government has created many of these monsters- they are rabid in the housing projects and "hoods"- it seems the more people are given for nothing, the more they come to feel it is there right to be entitled; and they have no compunctions about personal responsibility and justice- and sadly, we have a legal system which often shares their view, filled with jurors who do, too.
    Another gem of a post.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbill View Post
    Willing to bet your life savings and future earnings on it? It was stupid to post about, now you're set up for a lawsuit, it doesn't matter whether there was a ticket or not, the pedestrian was injured by a bike that was going fast on a multi-use area.

    You've done a stupid thing, try to get this entire thread deleted.
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  4. #79
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    You were going to fast... just from your description alone.

    From your description of the accident. It sounds like you were going too fast. I rode the Brooklyn Bridge bike path recently and it is really, really narrow (construction). I used to commute across the bridge for years and the walkway was much wider then. There are 100s of pedestrians and tourists walking, gawking, talking, strolling all over the place. One of them just might pop into the bicycle lane at any moment. I ding my bell as I ride along at about 10 mph and they (tourist, pedestrians) get out of the way. You were going too fast, I saw some older guy on a fixie curse out a pedestrian that got in his way. It was embarrassing.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycoBob View Post
    I'm getting tired of hearing that he was going too fast. .....

    Even at 10MPH, one is doing roughly 15 feet per second. If a pedestrian steps over the line RIGHT in front of you, and there is no time to brake.....you will keep traveling at 15ft/sec.....until an obstacle or friction or loss of momentum stops you and/or the bike.

    So it is easy to fly 15' even at a very slow speed. The fact that he only flew 15' suggests that he likely wasn't going too fast........
    he was going too fast.
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  6. #81
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    Just because your actions may not be criminal, they are likely civily actionable.
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  7. #82
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    just looking at that picture im convinced that any speed marginally above walking speed is too damn fast for those conditions. Its like cycling in a crowded shopping center or something. Thats utterly mental. Being in the right isnt really a shield against hurting yourself at the end of the day.

    In truth im a gigantic wuss that values my own safety far more than i value the principal of being in the right. Id treat that place exactly as i would coming past a small road with a bunch of 6 and 7 year olds playing: with great care.

    Until theres a 6 foot electric fence separating the two id be travelling about 10kmh MAX coming through that (and with my fingers twitching over the bakes). Are people really that pig headed to be hitting 30mph when its that busy? It cant be true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ippy View Post
    Until theres a 6 foot electric fence separating the two id be travelling about 10kmh MAX coming through that (and with my fingers twitching over the bakes). Are people really that pig headed to be hitting 30mph when its that busy? It cant be true.
    The fence is basically what you'd have to do in NY to prevent anything like this. And to answer your question... it's NYC, really.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbMaxx View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by foto View Post
    It's your fault for riding on the bklyn bridge. When is there not a shitton of tourists there taking pictures? I consider myself a cyclist and pretty freaking biased towards cyclists, but we/they do not belong on the brooklyn bridge in the summer on a nice day.

    One thing that pisses me off is cyclists in the bike lane of the brooklyn bridge, bombing down it, and shouting at people in awe of the downright incredible scenery.

    Next time take the manhattan bridge. Or check your speed.
    If the photo of pedestrians and bicyclists linked above is even remotely accurate as to the conditions on that bridge, the only safe speed to ride a bike would be at or near walking speed. If OP was among pedestrians like that, if he was going faster than walking speed, imho, he was going too fast and was a contributing factor to the injuries.

    The law or a civil suit may or may not agree with my opinion, but the fact is, a safe speed there would be very, very slow and pedestrian vs. bike accidents seem entirely predictable and mostly avoidable. Bicyclists therefore have to do whatever it takes to avoid them. Yes, whatever it takes, even if it means not using the bridge or going annoyingly slow.

    Quote Originally Posted by CycoBob View Post
    I'm getting tired of hearing that he was going too fast. .....

    Even at 10MPH, one is doing roughly 15 feet per second. If a pedestrian steps over the line RIGHT in front of you, and there is no time to brake.....you will keep traveling at 15ft/sec.....until an obstacle or friction or loss of momentum stops you and/or the bike.

    So it is easy to fly 15' even at a very slow speed. The fact that he only flew 15' suggests that he likely wasn't going too fast........
    Yea, I disagree with you here. Again, when among unseparated pedestrians (and that white line does not separate them!), if you're going faster than a fast walking speed, you're going to fast for safety. I'm not saying the pedestrian didn't mess up, but the accident was predictable and avoidable by the cyclist, and he should have done that.
    Last edited by Camilo; 09-05-2012 at 01:34 PM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycoBob View Post
    I would tend to agree with you there- except that for one person to ride in such manner, while the plethora of other cyclists are screaming down the bridge at 30MPH, would be like doing 5MPH in the middle lane of the freeway. It's like you have to choose to take your chances with a wayward pedestrian, or a crazy bike-rider [not "cyclist"].

    Which is why I feel that the city is largely at fault here, for creating such a dangerous situation, which is clearly not safe for pedestrians nor cyclists.

    The sad reality is, there are so many twatwaffles in NYC, who don't care one iota about another human being, that everything must be engineered to cater to the lowest common denominator; be totally foolproof; un-necessarily restrict everyone's rights; and with the assumption that at least 50% of the population will not obey the rules nor act in a responsible manner. That is why that place is such an inhuman jungle.
    You continue to impress me with your deep understanding of NY, and the people that live there.

    The city didn't create anything. Bikes and pedestrians have always been allowed on the bridge. It's the people who are stupid. Not the city.

    I don't need to know how fast the op was going, if he hit a pedestrian, it was too fast.

    If a pedestrian stepped out and pushed him off his bike, that would be different....
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycoBob View Post
    You're obviously not a NYer, and have probably never walked/cycled the Brooklyn Bridge.

    In many places in NY, bicycles are NOT allowed on pedestrian walkways. The 10' wide boardwalk on the BB was divided by a painted line, over 20 years ago, in an effort to accomodate both cyclists and pedestrians, and to try and improve safety, over the way it was when it was just an undivided shared boardwalk.

    The city bears responsibility for putting pedestrians in a situation where they are exposed to a danger that they likely don't realize exists, and ditto for cyclits. When you see a path marked specifically for bicycles, you tend to think that it is safe for normal-speed riding, since one would expect the pedestrians to stay on their side of the line.

    Yes, the cyclists that go flying over the bridge at 30MPH are totally irresponsible, but as I pointed out earlier- you could be going 10MPH and still not be able to avoide a pedestrian crash. And I should think that when one sees a special lane designated for bicycles only, that they would assume it is safe to go 10MPH, wouldn't ya think, huh?
    No, I would not think that. But then again, I am not an idiot, and I do have some situational awareness that let's me judge safe riding speeds, and how to navigate roads while listening to music.

    And I was born and raised in NYC, I commuted by bike there, and began road riding while living there.

    Many school zones are 20MPH. Would you think 20mph is a safe speed if a narrow one lane road is mobbed by hundreds and hundreds of children all mesmerized by the most awesome thing ever? Perhaps if you were obeying the speed limit and still hit a child, you are not responsible enough to judge how fast is too fast, and you shouldn't be driving...
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycoBob View Post
    And I should think that when one sees a special lane designated for bicycles only, that they would assume it is safe to go 10MPH, wouldn't ya think, huh?
    No I wouldn't ever assume that.
    Does the bridge actually have that posted as the speed limit?
    If it's posted as a 10mph speed limit that's the maximum you can ride under perfect riding conditions. You're expexted to lower your speed accordingly when conditions are less than perfect. Such as bad weather or crowded with pedestrians.
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  13. #88
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    I cant tell in the original pic if there was a head light or flasher on the front of the bike. Maybe you were in the right, but every detail can be used against you. OP should ask himself, what good can come from this thread, and what bad can come? The answer to the former is virtually nothing, the answer to the latter could be costly.

  14. #89
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    I would agree with the poster above. You step out in front of a bicyclist in the bicycle lane and you get hit, it's your fault. Perhaps the lady was from out of town, unaware of the dangers because the method used to convey by the city that there are separate lanes is pretty piss poor.
    Depending on how good a lawyer is, one could argue that the cyclist is the victim, he was also hurt and incurred property damage. I would think that it could be a powerful argument that she caused the accident by infringing on his right of way.
    Either way it goes, I'd have this topic deleted and consult a real attorney for my options and possibly be proactive and go after her.
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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycoBob View Post
    I don't believe there is a posted speed limit. At least there wasn't when I used to walk the bridge. Just occasional symbols painted on the ground, of a stick-figure walker and a stick-figure bicycle. One (both pedestrians and bicyclists) may not realize the dangers until it is too late. It's not as if there's a solid wall of pedestrians, or that they are constantly inhes from the bicycle portion of the walkway. It might not even be crowded...pedestrians may be spread out...here and there...the bicycle side may be wide-open - it doesn't look dangerous.....then that one pedestrian just darts across, wanting to get a better view...or is talking to his friend and just wanders into the bike lane, not being aware of how dangerous it could be.....

    Me? Yes, I would be going very slow. But how slow is very slow? What about when it's not crowded and it looks like you have the whole place to yourself, with occasional pedestrians being off into their own environment?

    And let's remember that the pedestrian was the one who veered into the bike lane, here. Just like someone running out into the street- you could be driving at a perfectly appropriate speed for the conditions, and still not be able to avoid them- and it would not be your fault.

    Some here are assuming that OP was going too fast and/or is automatically at fault just by reason of the fact that he hit the Wop woman [Before anyone flames me, my grandparents were from Italy!]- but that is not necessarily so. Just like on a MUT, where cyclists can and do go well over 10MPH, even though there are pedestrians and skaters and dogs. Other people DO bear responsibility for their actions too.

    The sidewalks of Manhattan are JAMMED with pedestrians- does that mean that all the cars in the street should crawl at 5MPH, just in case one steps off the sidewalk unexpectedly? No- the cars do 40MPH inches away from the thronging masses- and if one happens to step into the path of a car, you wouldn't blame the driver for merely doing what is expected and allowed, would you? You'd say -and rightly so- that the pedestrian should have stayed out of the road. Why is it different here? Only perhaps because "the road" and the "sidewalk" are not delineated as well; and the dangers are not as apparent (as most people do not consider a bicycle a danger)- which is the city's fault, for creating that environment and puttinbg people in a dangerous environment, where the dangers are not readily apparent.
    Let's see, correct me if I'm wrong, I just want to make sure I am reading you correctly.

    The world according to Cycobob:

    1) Everyone living in the projects or the 'hood are conniving free-loaders that are likely to cause accidents with the explicit intention of suing someone.

    2) Most people in NYC are heartless, have absolutely no moral compass, and would rather watch a person die than take a minute out of their day to help. As such,

    3) The city must be sued repeatedly and often until they create an infrastructure safe enough to insulate unsuspecting tourists from the cold, cruel, inhuman population that is the people of NY.

    4) Referring to an Italian tourist as a WOP because you are a second generation Italian-American is totally acceptable and not offensive to anyone on this board.

    Just making sure I have it all straight.
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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycoBob View Post
    Some here are assuming that OP was going too fast and/or is automatically at fault just by reason of the fact that he hit the Wop woman [Before anyone flames me, my grandparents were from Italy!]-
    I didn't realize that gave one license to racial slurs.

    No- the cars do 40MPH inches away from the thronging masses- and if one happens to step into the path of a car, you wouldn't blame the driver for merely doing what is expected and allowed, would you?
    Actually yea I would. As would the courts. Considering the speed limit in NYC is 30mph. http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/abo...eedlimit.shtml
    And even if your hypothetical driver was doing 30mph, he'd still likely be held liable. It's a speed LIMIT. Meaning you drive under it when conditions aren't ideal. Like say... thronging masses of people inches from the curb.

    Just because no one follows the law, doesn't mean they won't be held liable should they hit someone.
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    I really hate it when people say "but, I'm only going x-mph over the limit?!?!?!?!?!"

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    I didn't realize that gave one license to racial slurs.

    Actually yea I would. As would the courts. Considering the speed limit in NYC is 30mph. NYC DOT - Know the Speed Limit
    And even if your hypothetical driver was doing 30mph, he'd still likely be held liable. It's a speed LIMIT. Meaning you drive under it when conditions aren't ideal. Like say... thronging masses of people inches from the curb.

    Just because no one follows the law, doesn't mean they won't be held liable should they hit someone.
    According to some, adhering to the letter of the law absolves you from all responsibility for your actions.

    Interesting to me that those who so easily condemn others for their selfish behavior seem to have no sense of morality or common decency themselves.
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  19. #94
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    Folks this type of accident happens all the time!

    Near death of a celebrity on the bridge:


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    Quote Originally Posted by CycoBob View Post
    Well let's see there: Here are people who are living their whole lives and even raising families, in one of the most expensive real-estate markets in the world, and rather than moving or doing what they have to to support themselves and not having kids, they instead are quite happy to live off of money which is taken from others and given to them....and yet somehow I should expect them not to want to unjustly enrich themselves at the expense of another innocent stranger?

    Have you ever seen a bus crash in NYC? There could be 10 people on the bus when it crashes....but by the time the paramedics/cops get their, there are suddenly 25 "victims". Guess those extra victims came from Wall St. offices or maybe the local rectory...but definitely not the projects!



    Yep. Except perhaps for a small minority and maybe some who come in on MNRR or the LIRR! Let's get real here: This is the city, where when a cyclist crashes, and is laying in the street, someone will steal his weallet before the paramedics get a chance to.

    Sheesh! You don't sound like a NYer- you make it sound like the streets are paved with gold and filled with kind, friendly people! Either that, or confine yourself to only the Upper East Side and the Upper West Side.



    Uh, no. But when they create a special environment which is supposed to be for the benefit of guaranteeing the safety of a certain group (i.e. pedestrians, cyclists, etc.) but fail to take adequate precautions (even after many such accidents), then they are creating an attractive nuisance [Google the term if you are not familiar with the legal concept].

    Put a pedestrian in a normal environment, and is his duty to watch out for himself. Put him in an environment created specifically to ensure his safety, and then poorly design that environment, so that he exposed to dangers that he may not even be aware of until it is too late......and that makes one liable. Most people- especially non-NYers, do not equate bicycles with danger, as they would with vehicular traffic. It is not as if people who walk the bridge were lectured to not cross that line.....it's something the average person does not think about.



    Good. I like to use informal, colorful names. No one considers it a "slur" to call a William a "Bill", why should it bother anyone to see someone using endearing diminutives for others? If it does bother anyone, to them I say: Suck it up, buttercup! You can call me a Dago; a Guinea; a Wop; a Guido...just don't call me an "Italian-American", 'cause I don't even know what that is.

    Might also interest you to know that I refer to the Verrazano Bridge as The Guinea Gangplank. (I won't tell you what I call the Willy B.!)
    it's amazing how much ignorance and prejudice that can be put into one post. well done.
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  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycoBob View Post
    Against whom am I "prejudiced"? Are you saying that my comments apply to only a certain group or groups of people, who you can identify by the traits I mentioned?

    Ignorance? Please enlighten me as to what specifically I am ignorant of?

    Better yet, I dare you to test your politically-correct fairy-tale ideals by riding your expensive bike through one of those projects one night....let me know how it works out. [You might be surprised to learn that reality is quite different than the PC mantras you learned in school or from the talking heads in the media)
    You have no idea where I ride, have ridden or what bikes I have ridden through which neighborhoods.
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  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycoBob View Post
    Well let's see there: Here are people who are living their whole lives and even raising families, in one of the most expensive real-estate markets in the world, and rather than moving or doing what they have to to support themselves and not having kids, they instead are quite happy to live off of money which is taken from others and given to them....and yet somehow I should expect them not to want to unjustly enrich themselves at the expense of another innocent stranger?

    Have you ever seen a bus crash in NYC? There could be 10 people on the bus when it crashes....but by the time the paramedics/cops get their, there are suddenly 25 "victims". Guess those extra victims came from Wall St. offices or maybe the local rectory...but definitely not the projects!



    Yep. Except perhaps for a small minority and maybe some who come in on MNRR or the LIRR! Let's get real here: This is the city, where when a cyclist crashes, and is laying in the street, someone will steal his weallet before the paramedics get a chance to.

    Sheesh! You don't sound like a NYer- you make it sound like the streets are paved with gold and filled with kind, friendly people! Either that, or confine yourself to only the Upper East Side and the Upper West Side.



    Uh, no. But when they create a special environment which is supposed to be for the benefit of guaranteeing the safety of a certain group (i.e. pedestrians, cyclists, etc.) but fail to take adequate precautions (even after many such accidents), then they are creating an attractive nuisance [Google the term if you are not familiar with the legal concept].

    Put a pedestrian in a normal environment, and is his duty to watch out for himself. Put him in an environment created specifically to ensure his safety, and then poorly design that environment, so that he exposed to dangers that he may not even be aware of until it is too late......and that makes one liable. Most people- especially non-NYers, do not equate bicycles with danger, as they would with vehicular traffic. It is not as if people who walk the bridge were lectured to not cross that line.....it's something the average person does not think about.



    Good. I like to use informal, colorful names. No one considers it a "slur" to call a William a "Bill", why should it bother anyone to see someone using endearing diminutives for others? If it does bother anyone, to them I say: Suck it up, buttercup! You can call me a Dago; a Guinea; a Wop; a Guido...just don't call me an "Italian-American", 'cause I don't even know what that is.

    Might also interest you to know that I refer to the Verrazano Bridge as The Guinea Gangplank. (I won't tell you what I call the Willy B.!)
    Hahaha! Classy!

    Now where's my diagram?
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    Quote Originally Posted by den bakker View Post
    You have no idea where I ride, have ridden or what bikes I have ridden through which neighborhoods.
    I hear ya. I hate it when people think that if someone's not a New Yorker then they'll never understand their problem. First, no one here will know where anyone is from or where they've ridden so these people really have to stop making assumptions and stop basing their arguments on them.

    Second, making these statements (you must not be a New Yorker or if you've never ridden in New York so you have nothing to contribute) is just about the most arrogant thing to say to someone. It also sounds very childish. If we are talking to a 12 year old then I guess I can let it pass, but I really hope that we are not talking to an adult.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkdvsm View Post
    I hear ya. I hate it when people think that if someone's not a New Yorker then they'll never understand their problem. First, no one here will know where anyone is from or where they've ridden so these people really have to stop making assumptions and stop basing their arguments on them.

    Second, making these statements (you must not be a New Yorker or if you've never ridden in New York so you have nothing to contribute) is just about the most arrogant thing to say to someone. It also sounds very childish. If we are talking to a 12 year old then I guess I can let it pass, but I really hope that we are not talking to an adult.
    Or, you must not be a New Yorker because you don't have the same outlook as a bigoted dumbass from Bay Ridge. I am sure Bob has no idea how many people on this board are from NYC, which neighborhoods they are from, and what their economic backgrounds are.

    But that's ok, we are all entitled to fly off the handle with ridiculous rants...I guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CycoBob View Post
    Some here are assuming that OP was going too fast and/or is automatically at fault just by reason of the fact that he hit the Wop woman [Before anyone flames me, my grandparents were from Italy!]- but that is not necessarily so. Just like on a MUT, where cyclists can and do go well over 10MPH, even though there are pedestrians and skaters and dogs. Other people DO bear responsibility for their actions too.
    Don't care where you claim your grandparents are from. That's a posting vacation and a perm ban if you ever do it again.
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