How much is too much?

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  • 07-13-2019
    Wood Devil
    How much is too much?
    ***This was originally posted in the training forum, but apparently no one checks in there much, so I though I'd get more responses here in GD.***

    So...I do a lot of Zwift racing, and I'm fairly competitive, always right there in the mix of every race. But when it comes down to that home stretch I'm always getting my ass kicked by riders that have that higher peak power; as soon as they get up and start stomping on the pedals it's game over for me.

    As it is right now I can maybe, on a good day, muster a bit over 11w/kg for 15 seconds. Normally I'm around 9.5-10w/kg at the end of a race. And, in my opinion, that's rather pathetic.

    Naturally, to get better, you need to train. But I'm not sure if I'm over-training or not training hard enough. A typical week consist of roughly 12 hours with a TSS of 700 to 800. Of the seven days, Monday is usually easy recovery, while Tuesdays and Wednesdays are difficult races and/or training, Thursday endurance, Friday another racing/training day, Saturday active recovery or endurance, and Sunday more training.

    But I'm not really putting out more than 5 to 10 minutes or so worth of anaerobic and neuromuscular work per race event or training session (which involves one or two dedicated days of 10-15 sec sprint intervals x 10). That doesn't seem like a whole hell of a lot to me. So should I devoting more time into sprint work and ac stuff like 40/20s, or should I back off a bit?

    Also, how in the hell would one fit in strength training with weights into the mix? My legs are always tired and it seems like it will be more damaging than beneficial. But I keep seeing the sprinter typically incorporate weight sessions into the regime.
  • 07-13-2019
    cxwrench
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wood Devil View Post
    [I] My legs are always tired

    That's a pretty good clue right there. I'm no coach but I always did my hard workouts and big weights before the season and maintained during. I only did sprint events on the track but I had no problem hanging w/ 2 hour group rides and if there was a sprint somewhere I usually had fun.
  • 07-14-2019
    bmach
    Take 4 or 5 days off go for some long hikes. I bet you come back stronger. Your legs should not always be tired.
  • 07-15-2019
    Srode
    Are you resting enough? You don't get stronger working out, it's during recovery. Are you doing light weeks every 4th week (3 weeks hard, 1 week easy)? If not you should be. Light weeks nothing more than endurance pace and cut your volume way back, TSB should be positive by the end.
  • 07-18-2019
    Clipped_in
    In the wise words of Kate Courtney, "Train hard, recover harder!":thumbsup:
  • 07-19-2019
    Wood Devil
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    Are you resting enough? You don't get stronger working out, it's during recovery. Are you doing light weeks every 4th week (3 weeks hard, 1 week easy)? If not you should be. Light weeks nothing more than endurance pace and cut your volume way back, TSB should be positive by the end.

    At my age, if I take a week off it's game over. I have a difficult enough time getting the legs to fire back up after a couple days off -- it's like they go to sleep and don't want to wake back up.
  • 07-19-2019
    jspharmd
    As others have pointed out, feeling tired often signifies overtraining or not enough rest. A couple of suggestions:

    1. Think about active vs passive recovery. If you feel like you can't take a few days off, what about an easy week with two days off during that week.

    2. Structured training. This is usually designed to make sure you rest (active and passive rest). If you don't want to spend money on a coach, you can use software like Trainerroad. You can also read books on training and design your own. One thing in common for all of these are rest weeks that have light riding and resting.
  • 07-19-2019
    davesupra
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wood Devil View Post
    At my age, if I take a week off it's game over. I have a difficult enough time getting the legs to fire back up after a couple days off -- it's like they go to sleep and don't want to wake back up.

    I have the same problem. Try doing a different aerobic exercise while you let your legs recover from cycling. Swim, etc.
  • 07-19-2019
    bvber
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wood Devil View Post
    At my age, if I take a week off it's game over. I have a difficult enough time getting the legs to fire back up after a couple days off -- it's like they go to sleep and don't want to wake back up.

    That may be dependent on what you do during days off. Do you massage, stretch, heat pad...etc?
  • 07-19-2019
    Srode
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wood Devil View Post
    At my age, if I take a week off it's game over. I have a difficult enough time getting the legs to fire back up after a couple days off -- it's like they go to sleep and don't want to wake back up.

    how old are you and what do you do during a rest week? I still ride quite a bit during my rest week, just lower intensity and volume, and I get stronger at 62.

    A whole week of easy may be too much but everyone needs some time off or over-training happens, and it's a real physiological phenomenon. Your hormones get out of wack and it takes some time to regain homeostasis. When a person digs themselves a big hole overtraining it can take weeks or longer than a month to get back to where they can train hard again build effectively.
  • 07-20-2019
    kiwisimon
    What percentage of your training is on the trainer Vs on the bike?

    Do you do any real world racing? How do you fare in those?
  • 07-20-2019
    Lombard
    I really didn't need to know that your legs are always tired to see that you are overtraining, but your saying that just confirms it. You should have at least one recovery day for every hard training day. That can be an active or passive recovery - an active recovery day being just getting on the bike and soft pedaling for 10-20 miles just to keep the legs moving. Or do other types of light exercise with an emphasis on LIGHT.

    Right now, you are only recovering two days a week while doing race or endurance training 5 days a week. Not wise.
  • 07-20-2019
    PBL450
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I really didn't need to know that your legs are always tired to see that you are overtraining, but your saying that just confirms it. You should have at least one recovery day for every hard training day. That can be an active or passive recovery - an active recovery day being just getting on the bike and soft pedaling for 10-20 miles just to keep the legs moving. Or do other types of light exercise with an emphasis on LIGHT.

    Right now, you are only recovering two days a week while doing race or endurance training 5 days a week. Not wise.

    This. In the immortal words of Joe Friel, ďIíve trained hundreds of riders and in every single case I guarantee you their hard days arenít hard enough and their easy days arenít easy enough.Ē

    (I think I got close to the actual quote...)