hydrate mix vs plain H2O
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  1. #1
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    hydrate mix vs plain H2O

    What do most people do on a longer, say a century, ride? Do they just carry a baggie full of hydrate powder to mix into their water as they refill?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by coondogger View Post
    Do they just carry a baggie full of hydrate powder to mix into their water as they refill?
    Yes, but not a baggie. I find that the powder winds up clogging up the ziplock making them a PITA to re-seal and no way to easily measure.

    I use tablet containers. You can buy them empty. Or just re-use ones that came with tables. I have a few friends who use Nuun so I just collect their empty containers.
    The small containers hold about 1 serving of powder mix and the large hold about 2 servings. Easy to measure. Re-sealable. Re-usable. Waterproof. Fits nicely in a jersey pocket.

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    I usually just put electrolites in one bottle I start with, the other has 'food'. After that first bottle is gone, I don't worry too much about electrolites.
    Have you ever noticed a difference if you don't have them the whole ride?
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    Have you ever noticed a difference if you don't have them the whole ride?
    On a century ride... absolutely.
    Hot humid days over 50mi... absolutely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    On a century ride... absolutely.
    Hot humid days over 50mi... absolutely.
    Yep.

    How concentrated do you make it? I put half a Nunn sized tablet in one 8 oz. water bottle. The whole tablet makes the drink harder to go down and leaves an acidic aftertaste. I used to carry a second WB with clear water just for the refreshing feeling going down, and to rinse out the mouth.

    There's also nothing better towards the end of a long hot ride than Coca Cola Classic! It's wet, cold, goes down smoothly on the bubbles, and spreads out in the stomach nicely. The "6 teaspoons" of sugar and caffeine gives that shot of high test energy always welcome when the carbs are burned up.

    "Sport Legs" keeps the legs from cramping and helps recovery really well. Never felt the need to take more than one tablet right before the ride.

    Anyone carry a banana? Before sport drinks, they were the standard source of electrolytes and fuel and worked great.

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    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Yep.

    How concentrated do you make it?
    I put half a Nunn sized tablet in one 8 oz. water bottle. The whole tablet makes the drink harder to go down and leaves an acidic aftertaste.
    I don't use nuun, never liked it.
    I use EFS, carbs and electrolytes. Mix per instructions which is about 1 scoop per bottle. (1 scoop fills a small nuun container)

    I used to carry a second WB with clear water just for the refreshing feeling going down, and to rinse out the mouth.
    That's what I do. Always good to have plain water to wash the mouth, pour on your head /back, clean the glasses,.

    Anyone carry a banana? Before sport drinks, they were the standard source of electrolytes and fuel and worked great.
    I do sometimes. Great fuel. But on long rides, especially in the summer, they get mushy if you don't eat them early on.
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    Your body needs electrolytes (mainly sodium) in order for your cells to absorb water. I get enough sodium in my diet that I don't add anything to my water on shorter rides, or in cool weather. But for long days or hot weather, you probably need to add some electrolyte to your intake during your ride. Just be aware that most energy gels, bars, blocks, etc, that are intended to be used during activity already have a lot of sodium. I generally prefer to get sodium from my food.

    That being said, I am an insanely heavy sweater, even when it's not terribly hot out. I also hate putting sticky sweet stuff in my water bottles if I can help it. To that end, I've been using Lyte Balance Electrolyte Concentrate for years. it's an all natural electrolyte concentrate that contains nothing but sodium, potassium and calcium in purified water (and no, it doesn't taste bad at all). Two capfuls per bottle is usually enough, but you can use more or less depending on your specific needs. I buy the big bottles, but for long rides, you can keep one of the small bottles in your jersey pocket or a storage bag.

    I like it because its flavorless and odorless, doesn't add additional calories, flavorings or sweeteners (these things can make water hard to swallow at times) and it doesn't make my bottles or my bike sticky. You can use it plain by just adding it to your water with nothing else, or, if you want to add some glucose, or fruit flavoring, or whatever makes you happy, you can do that (I generally don't).





    In a pinch, I've used the Skratch Labs powders. They have about 90 calories, and the flavor isn't too strong if sufficiently diluted. They come in a range of flavors, and in small tubes that you can easily keep in your jersey pocket on a long ride.

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    Capsules are also an option.

    One example is Hammer Endurolytes.
    https://www.hammernutrition.com/products/endurolytes

    You can keep a few of these in a small bottle (anything to protect them) in your jersey pocket, and just take them with your water as needed.

    A lot of the Rando folks I know just keep these in a top tube bag or pannier and don't mess with mixes at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    I don't use nuun, never liked it.
    I use EFS, carbs and electrolytes. Mix per instructions which is about 1 scoop per bottle. (1 scoop fills a small nuun container)

    That's what I do. Always good to have plain water to wash the mouth, pour on your head /back, clean the glasses,.

    I do sometimes. Great fuel. But on long rides, especially in the summer, they get mushy if you don't eat them early on.
    Yes, bananas ripen in the hot air off the back, especially the ones already soft and sugary. They're also kind of heavy and bounce hard on rough tarmac.

    There's definitely something to say about solid food instead of these high tech powders. Flavor for one thing. Nutrition for another.

    Most of these powder drinks taste like sweetened medicine to me. They don't stimulate the nostrils, taste receptors or salivary glands like fruit, granola bars, or little sandwiches.

    Eddy B recommended a couple of slices of honey ham, cream cheese and fruit preserves in slices of stout Italian bread, cut up into 3 or 4 bite pieces easy to hold together in the hand. By the time mile 50 comes up, the sandwich has been cooking in the heat off the back. I never thought honey ham, cream cheese, fruit preserves, and Italian bread could taste so good.

    Lots of riders have problems digesting solid food while drifting in and out of anaerobic threshold, but if rider can moderate effort while wolfing down real, solid food, it does a superb job getting him home, in conjunction with liquids, of course.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Anyone carry a banana? Before sport drinks, they were the standard source of electrolytes and fuel and worked great.
    This. A banana has far more potassium than any sports drink and it's more nutritionally complete and cheaper too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Yes, bananas ripen in the hot air off the back, especially the ones already soft and sugary.
    That's why I pick the ones that are still a bit green. They will be ripe by mid-ride.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    There's definitely something to say about solid food instead of these high tech powders. Flavor for one thing. Nutrition for another.

    Most of these powder drinks taste like sweetened medicine to me. They don't stimulate the nostrils, taste receptors or salivary glands like fruit, granola bars, or little sandwiches.
    And this. Other riders poke fun at my beam rack bag, but it allows me to carry real food - a sandwich, an apple, extra water, etc. They don't poke fun after I pass them on a uphill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Lots of riders have problems digesting solid food while drifting in and out of anaerobic threshold, but if rider can moderate effort while wolfing down real, solid food, it does a superb job getting him home, in conjunction with liquids, of course.
    Yep. Interestingly, I don't have a problem with riding after a meal as long as I don't pig out too much. I actually feel a second wind after a meal. Though I avoid red meat on rides as it's harder to digest.
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  11. #11
    tlg
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    If all you're after is electrolytes, a pinch or two of lite salt (which is 50% sodium - 50% potassium) in your water bottle works the same as tablets without all the fillers. . Test out how big of a pinch you can add until you can taste it in a full bottle, then add a little less next time so you don't taste it.
    Can't get cheaper than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Yes,
    Lots of riders have problems digesting solid food while drifting in and out of anaerobic threshold, but if rider can moderate effort while wolfing down real, solid food, it does a superb job getting him home, in conjunction with liquids, of course.
    I'm lucky enough to eat just about anything while riding. Sandwiches, bagel with lox and cream cheese, pastries, ice cream... Mmmmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finx View Post
    I generally prefer to get sodium from my food.
    Me too. That's why I just add plain old table salt to my food bag for long/hot/humid rides. No salty drink to get all over me and my bike. Likewise I keep my calories solid and therefore separate from my water. No sticky drink to get all over me and my bike. Calorie needs are dependent on distance, while hydration needs are dependent on sweating. Carrying actual food is cheaper, tastes a lot better, keeps you and your bike clean, and allows you control calories separately from hydration.

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    So, In terms of what is supported by research on human hydration and nutrition, only Kerry Irons gets it. Disclaimer is valid, my academic preparation is not relevant to the discussion... I have read a great many hours of peer reviewed scholarship on this topic. But I am no expert, I can only share what scholars have found... I cannot critique it. In the Academy I wouldn’t dare speak, but here, I’ll tell you what I learned as a complete amateur. I have had access to a kinesiologist during my reading...

    Under an hour? You need nothing. No matter the workout. Nothing. Long, hot bike ride? Add 1/4 tsp salt and 1/4 tsp sugar to one of your Bidons. You will barely even taste it. On a century? Carry a second dose in the plastic bag you to use, the same one for your dead gels. Separate feeding and hydration. This matters. IT MATTERS A LOT! I don’t know how much info you want? This is an important piece of the endurance puzzle...
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    I carry ziplock bags full of Infinit Nutrition to reload bottles in my jersey pockets. I can carry up to six 25oz bottles though so depending on the temperature, I may not need to stop to refill. I normally just use 4 bottles (2 on the frame, 2 on the saddle) and the ziplock bags as needed to reload the bottles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    So, In terms of what is supported by research on human hydration and nutrition, only Kerry Irons gets it. Disclaimer is valid, my academic preparation is not relevant to the discussion... I have read a great many hours of peer reviewed scholarship on this topic. But I am no expert, I can only share what scholars have found... I cannot critique it. In the Academy I wouldn’t dare speak, but here, I’ll tell you what I learned as a complete amateur. I have had access to a kinesiologist during my reading...

    Under an hour? You need nothing. No matter the workout. Nothing. Long, hot bike ride? Add 1/4 tsp salt and 1/4 tsp sugar to one of your Bidons. You will barely even taste it. On a century? Carry a second dose in the plastic bag you to use, the same one for your dead gels. Separate feeding and hydration. This matters. IT MATTERS A LOT! I don’t know how much info you want? This is an important piece of the endurance puzzle...
    So there's a consensus here, separating hydration from feeding is the way to go.

    Yep, lots of riders have no problem, but for me, sticky drinks aren't as refreshing going down as plain water on a hot ride, and the ones I've used didn't provide energy as well as solid food. Once cleanly ejected a Powerbar when in over my head on a hard, hot club ride. Liquids would have stayed down. But burning all those calories increases the appetite; the stomach digests the food with gusto, and the ride improves. For a while, coaches thought fortified liquids could do the job. Then they realized the body needs protein as well as carbos on a long ride.

    Yep, the glycogen already in the muscles works for an hour. But on a hot day, I'll go out slightly dehyderated and start sipping after the first few miles.
    Last edited by Fredrico; 07-14-2019 at 01:42 AM.

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    I road the Prouty Century yesterday, and stuffed a small baggie of hydrate mix in my jersey pocket. Whenever I stopped to fill a water bottle, I just added a few scoops of the mix to it. Worked fine. The last 3 miles of that ride are up a horrid hill (the century runs through New Hampshire and Vermont, so the whole thing has nasty hills) and I could feel the onset of cramps in both my quads and hammies. I just slipped into a low gear and backed off a little. Hills notwithstanding, this century is a beautiful ride through the northern New England countryside and is extremely well organized and precisely marked. But back to the subject at hand, the mix-in-baggie system works well; at least for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    ... sticky drinks aren't as refreshing going down as plain water on a hot ride ...
    . FWIW, a guy in my club who has been riding for >65 years recommends taking one swallow of energy drink followed by two of plain water. It seems sensible to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    sticky drinks aren't as refreshing going down as plain water on a hot ride, and the ones I've used didn't provide energy as well as solid food
    This seems to be the case for me. Especially when I'm a long way into my ride, sweet drings make my mouth feel really dry and there's a persistent sour aftertaste. I chase any sweet food or drink with water.

    I do like bringing real food. When I first started doing longer rides, I though I needed the gels and whatnot. I was a victim of marketing. Now I make a variety of foods and take them along. It keeps things varied and interesting rather than gagging down gels. One of my recent favorites are little wafer things called Knoppers. They probably don't have the right profile of ingredients for endurance activity, but they still seem to work well for me, fit in the jersey pocket, and hold up well. The problem is I can't find them anywhere but ALDI around me, and the closest store is 75 miles away.

    I do still carry a gel or two just in case as they're compact and keep forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bilbo View Post
    This seems to be the case for me. Especially when I'm a long way into my ride, sweet drings make my mouth feel really dry and there's a persistent sour aftertaste. I chase any sweet food or drink with water.

    I do like bringing real food. When I first started doing longer rides, I though I needed the gels and whatnot. I was a victim of marketing. Now I make a variety of foods and take them along. It keeps things varied and interesting rather than gagging down gels. One of my recent favorites are little wafer things called Knoppers. They probably don't have the right profile of ingredients for endurance activity, but they still seem to work well for me, fit in the jersey pocket, and hold up well. The problem is I can't find them anywhere but ALDI around me, and the closest store is 75 miles away.

    I do still carry a gel or two just in case as they're compact and keep forever.
    You can buy them on line from many different sites.. ie Amazon... https://www.amazon.com/s?k=knoppers&...l_8gmxw4nbiq_e
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    Quote Originally Posted by coondogger View Post
    What do most people do on a longer, say a century, ride? Do they just carry a baggie full of hydrate powder to mix into their water as they refill?
    On long rides, I toss in a Nuun tablet every other bottle. Whether its any better than some salt and sugar, I don't know but I've grown accustomed to the taste

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    Excellent, thanks! They have minis, too. Going to have to pick some up.

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    propel zero - mostly for the taste - I drink more than with plain water. I don't typically ride more than 90 minutes, so no need for calories.

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    I fill zip lock snack baggies with drink mix (usually Cytomax). They're half the size of a sandwich baggie, so I fill each one up with enough powder for a single bottle. That way I don't have to fumble around trying to get them resealed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    On long rides, I toss in a Nuun tablet every other bottle. Whether its any better than some salt and sugar, I don't know but I've grown accustomed to the taste
    Same here.
    Nuun is also French - Canadian slang for vagina. The jury is still out whether or not Nuun juice boosts performance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToiletSiphon View Post
    Same here.
    Nuun is also French - Canadian slang for vagina. The jury is still out whether or not Nuun juice boosts performance.

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