Lance Responds to Greg
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  1. #1

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    Lance Responds to Greg

    http://washingtontimes.com/national/...3140-8205r.htm

    What a classy way to respond. He could have been much nastier. Interesting also is the part about French trying to frame him and sneaking around his hotel room.
    Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
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  2. #2
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    Agreed. I think he handled it with a lot of class.

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    Good for Lance. I'm still absolutely baffled by Lemond--has HE responded to this yet? Unless he is one of the bigger egomanics in history, or is so bitter that his hunting accident carved off a few prime years he can't stand it, he must be a complete moron. His bikes are built by Trek, for God's sake!

    The only other explanation I can think of is that Trek and Lemond are about to part ways to make room for Lance. Someone joked about this earlier, but I DO think there's a chance Trek may jettison Lemond for a sure-to-be-huge Lance Armstrong line.

    Even if that's the case, it's still just flat-out dumb. Who is going to want to offer a manufacturing deal to a whining, bitter has-been? First new model: the all carbon "Boo Hoo Lance Sucks." Greg, Greg, Greg, what are we gonna do with you?
    "I don't know karate, but I know caa-RAZY." --James Brown

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    COOL heads will prevail /

    sounds like someone sold-out to the French & it wasn't Lance.if it was meant to be,he will take #6-GOOD LUCK to Lance!!!!!!!.........
    Quote Originally Posted by Gator
    Good for Lance. I'm still absolutely baffled by Lemond--has HE responded to this yet? Unless he is one of the bigger egomanics in history, or is so bitter that his hunting accident carved off a few prime years he can't stand it, he must be a complete moron. His bikes are built by Trek, for God's sake!

    The only other explanation I can think of is that Trek and Lemond are about to part ways to make room for Lance. Someone joked about this earlier, but I DO think there's a chance Trek may jettison Lemond for a sure-to-be-huge Lance Armstrong line.

    Even if that's the case, it's still just flat-out dumb. Who is going to want to offer a manufacturing deal to a whining, bitter has-been? First new model: the all carbon "Boo Hoo Lance Sucks." Greg, Greg, Greg, what are we gonna do with you?

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    Makes total sense!

    Lets face it, the name ARMSTRONG in big, block lettering. They'll sell like hotcakes!

  6. #6

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    Class

    Lance is a very classy guy. Now Greg, SHUT UP!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bocephus Jones
    http://washingtontimes.com/national/...3140-8205r.htm

    What a classy way to respond. He could have been much nastier. Interesting also is the part about French trying to frame him and sneaking around his hotel room.

    Yep, that's Lance; he knows how to handle himself like a true professional. Of course people are going to make accusations when someone is achieving the seemingly unachievable. I can't wait to see him take the Tour for the 6th time!

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    I applaud Greg.

    I support Greg for standing up and speaking out. It's unpopular, but the truth hurts.

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    I stand by Greg too!

    I support Greg Lemond also. Cycling is riddled with widespread drug use. By all indications, from David Millar recently busted on EPO to Manzano detailing how riders can dope with EPO and still pass tests, SOMETHING needs to be done to clean up this sport. Drug use is widespread and it is getting worse. Drugs are getting better and the tests cannot keep up with the drug masking. Greg is right to ask the hard questions and bring up the issues that need to stop being swept under the rug. The questions need to be answered. The issues needs to be addressed. And point blank. It all starts at the top with Armstrong and his alleged use by former teamates, personal physiotherapists, and now a former team physician. Greg is right for speaking out and I support him.

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    I don't see it as Greg "asking the tough questions" He's simply making accusations which he cannot back up. I do not understand his motivation. Greg used to be my idol. The '89 TdF is what helped get me into cycling but Greg has knocked himself down a couple of notches in my book. I do not know if Lance is using banned substances or not but someone is Greg's position should know better than to be tossing out mere speculaition as if its substantiated fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG
    I don't see it as Greg "asking the tough questions" He's simply making accusations which he cannot back up. I do not understand his motivation. Greg used to be my idol. The '89 TdF is what helped get me into cycling but Greg has knocked himself down a couple of notches in my book. I do not know if Lance is using banned substances or not but someone is Greg's position should know better than to be tossing out mere speculaition as if its substantiated fact.

    The truth hurts. Greg has spoken the truth. Others, like Stephen Swart and the former USPS phsiotherapist, have stated and given credible evidence to accuse Armstrong of using EPO. Greg has not. He never directly stated that Armstrong is on EPO. He said that Armstrong told him basically, "look buddy everybody does it." Armstrong incriminated himself.

  12. #12
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    Unfortunately for those that just want to bash Armstrong, no-one, especially LeMond, has given credible, supported evidence of any sort.

    What there have been is a bunch of dis-gruntled ex- employees and others making allusions to "you know what" - this is disgraceful.

    LeMond, has simply done the same, unsupported hear-say. LeMond has simply once again proven what he has always been. A whining self-centered egomaniac. If someone does something that he can't or didn't, it is being done unfairly.

    LeMond has just further proven his status a first class cry-baby and a very small man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toomanybikes
    Unfortunately for those that just want to bash Armstrong, no-one, especially LeMond, has given credible, supported evidence of any sort.

    What there have been is a bunch of dis-gruntled ex- employees and others making allusions to "you know what" - this is disgraceful.

    LeMond, has simply done the same, unsupported hear-say. LeMond has simply once again proven what he has always been. A whining self-centered egomaniac. If someone does something that he can't or didn't, it is being done unfairly.

    LeMond has just further proven his status a first class cry-baby and a very small man.

    Armstrong is the one that is "dis-gruntled" about his old teamates, phsiotherapists, and team physician alledging his drug use.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manhattan
    I SOMETHING needs to be done to clean up this sport.
    Sure. And I even no what exactly - doping legalization. Drugs are not better or worse then any other cycling-related risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky2
    Armstrong is the one that is "dis-gruntled" about his old teamates, phsiotherapists, and team physician alledging his drug use.
    It would seem that many people, here, suffer from a lack of critical thinking skills. One group is accused of blindly supporting Armstrong, while another group blindly supports unfounded accusations.

    If someone chooses to believe unfounded accusations, so be it, but that person cannot put those accusations forward as truth. Choosing not to label accusations as truth does not make someone blind: it only means that you choose to wait for conclusive evidence, rather than relying on heresay. It does not mean that someone is blind to what could potentially be the truth.

    The facts of the matter are that LeMond, having no factual knowledge of Armstong's alleged doping, makes a proofless claim. A team physician, never associated with Armstrong, makes allegations about which he can have no proof. Others make allegations to an author instead of taking their allegations and proof--which has yet to be seen--to the governing bodies.

    You cannot make an argument based on a personal belief that someone, like Armstrong, could not perform at that level w/out doping. Such an argument is inane. Read about Joe Simpson and his survival on a climb in Peru. That story involves pain and suffering magnitudes greater than what a rider encounters in TdF, and Simpson did it without food and water, all while toting a shattered leg. That story is proof by example that humans are at times capable of so much more than anyone could expect.

    Whether or not I care for Armstrong really doesn't matter. What really bothers me is the lack of organized, critical thought that people display....on both sides of the issue. It scares me that some of these people might be scientists and engineers designing things upon which our lives might depend, might be teachers erroneously teaching our kids, might be doctors or nurses incapable of making a complicated medical decision.

    And the thing that bothers me the very most is that these same people might actually cast their votes in November.

  16. #16
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    I don't get it...

    not that I think of Armstrong as a choir-boy, but after the bout with cancer and surrviving, I can't understand why a person would take drugs that have been show to cause other cancers.
    Maybe he is doping.....but...I can't imagine it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Touch0Gray
    not that I think of Armstrong as a choir-boy, but after the bout with cancer and surrviving, I can't understand why a person would take drugs that have been show to cause other cancers.
    Maybe he is doping.....but...I can't imagine it.

    Did I miss something? When did EPO start causing other cancers? My body makes that hormone naturally? How can I get rid of it so I don't get skin cancer or something?

    OK, sarcasm mode off, but you do of course realise that modern and very toxic medications are the only reason that Lance Armstrong is alive to win any Tours today don't you? You should look into what exactly chemotherapy drugs do to a person's body. They kill cells indiscriminately....healthy and malignate cells. Chemotherapy is very toxic and having chemo treatments means you walk a fine line between deliberatly killing yourself and saving your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Touch0Gray
    not that I think of Armstrong as a choir-boy, but after the bout with cancer and surrviving, I can't understand why a person would take drugs that have been show to cause other cancers.
    Maybe he is doping.....but...I can't imagine it.

    I don't really get what the big deal is. Not that I agree with it or anything but isn't the main "drug" erthropoitin? The riders are already tested for crit levels and there is an upper limit as to what their crit can be. So if some of the riders are doing it but their crits are within the limits then whats the big deal? Living in a high altitude will give you a high crit, so will sleeping in those atmosphere tents. There is a point of diminishing returns as to how high your crit can go before performance suffers. Should riders living at sea level be "punished" with lower crits? Also, your whole system has to adjust to the viscosity of the blood so simply upping your crit level would only be the first step to conditioning.

    I could see the point if it was steroids but isn't that a big no-no for cyclists? There's already a limit on how high your hematocrit can be. Hell, maybe they should all compete with identical crits, that might level the playing field for folks living in lower altitudes. They would still have to train and condition the rest of their circulatory system. Once a few of them croaked because of side effects of high crits the practice might not be so attractive. Is it any more of an unfair edge than dietary supplements or vitamens? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by margoC
    I don't really get what the big deal is. Not that I agree with it or anything but isn't the main "drug" erthropoitin? The riders are already tested for crit levels and there is an upper limit as to what their crit can be. So if some of the riders are doing it but their crits are within the limits then whats the big deal? Living in a high altitude will give you a high crit, so will sleeping in those atmosphere tents. There is a point of diminishing returns as to how high your crit can go before performance suffers. Should riders living at sea level be "punished" with lower crits? Also, your whole system has to adjust to the viscosity of the blood so simply upping your crit level would only be the first step to conditioning.

    I could see the point if it was steroids but isn't that a big no-no for cyclists? There's already a limit on how high your hematocrit can be. Hell, maybe they should all compete with identical crits, that might level the playing field for folks living in lower altitudes. They would still have to train and condition the rest of their circulatory system. Once a few of them croaked because of side effects of high crits the practice might not be so attractive. Is it any more of an unfair edge than dietary supplements or vitamens? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
    A small correction:

    High altitude training creates a systemic response - the whole body goes through the adaptation process as natural (endogenous) EPO levels increase, thereby increasing RBC and hematocrit levels.

    Taking EPO in drug form (exogenous) mainly increases the RBC production as seen in the increased hematocrit, effectively thickening the blood in many cases.

    And there have already been a number of EPO related deaths.

  20. #20
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    lance is WAY more gracious than me. i probably would have just "RG'ed' Greg with a 2x4 and told him to STFU

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    Boycott Lemond Bicycles!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bocephus Jones
    http://washingtontimes.com/national/...3140-8205r.htm

    What a classy way to respond. He could have been much nastier. Interesting also is the part about French trying to frame him and sneaking around his hotel room.
    If you own one, trash it, or rebadge it.
    Or you may want to save it in case Lemond's bipolar symdrome kicks in again, forcing him to issue a full retraction and apology.

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    Let's look at Greg's "truths"

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky2
    The truth hurts. Greg has spoken the truth. Others, like Stephen Swart and the former USPS phsiotherapist, have stated and given credible evidence to accuse Armstrong of using EPO. Greg has not. He never directly stated that Armstrong is on EPO. He said that Armstrong told him basically, "look buddy everybody does it." Armstrong incriminated himself.
    "What I'm saying is that I want to see the truth when I watch the Tour," LeMond said.-Sure, everybody does.

    "Drugs are now so powerful that they can change a man physiologically," he said. "One could even convert a mule into a stallion." -LIE, they aren't and you can't. Drugs can improve performance, but they can't make a champion out of a loser.

    "There are no miracles in cycling, only explanations. After I suffered a hunting accident in 1987 it took me two years before I could race again and I never reached the same level."-
    Greg's saying that if rider A has a medical problem and rider B has a totally different medical problem, they will both take the exact same amount to time to recover. Greg should have spent his retirement years getting a medical degree.
    The problems is when, Greg, the media, and Lance haters rely on proof and then find none, they abandon reason and are perfectly happy to make up their own conclusions. Suddenly factual evidence isn't so important to them. You can't play both sides of the evidence fence.

    "The problem with Lance is that (if you raise questions about doping) you're either a liar or you're out to destroy cycling," said LeMond who won in 1986, 1989 and 1990.
    -Lance believes it's possible to punish real cheats, test better, and clean up cycling without turnign it into a rumor-based witch hunt. It's takes more time and effort, but it's the correct way to run things.

    "Lance is ready to do anything to keep his secret but I don't know how long he can convince everybody of his innocence."-
    So Lemond has this little fantasy that some pharmacy has spend millions secretly brewing up a miracle postion for Lance, hid it from the entire outside world, and will only reveal it after Lance retires? Perhaps Lance is spending his millions paying off Bristol Meyers Squibb to keep his secret. Yes, this is indeed a most elaborate plot.

    How can anyone take you seriously? Greg says this, Lance says that, and you let your bias tell you who to believe. Other than words, you have ZERO outside supporting evidence. Lance supporters on the other hand have five year's worth of clean dope tests.
    You have to make a choice. If you are going to rely on evidence, you have to deal with the fact that there is none. Or you can just be honest with us and say you hate Lance and believe he's doper.
    Lance has tested negative and you choose to NOT believe that? So you're saying you, personally, don't believe the tests. Yet if he ever tested positive, you'd damn-sure well believe THAT single test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gotbones
    A small correction:

    High altitude training creates a systemic response - the whole body goes through the adaptation process as natural (endogenous) EPO levels increase, thereby increasing RBC and hematocrit levels.

    Taking EPO in drug form (exogenous) mainly increases the RBC production as seen in the increased hematocrit, effectively thickening the blood in many cases.

    And there have already been a number of EPO related deaths.
    That was kind of my point, the "blood doping" in and of itself would seem to play a small part in the "cheating" process and to me it's been blown a little out of proproportion, esp as you pointed out, it's also risky. Stimulants takend during the race would have more of an affect it seems to me but would also be easier to catch.

    Football players baste in steroids yet I don't see very many overpaid babies getting banned from their sport. In fact it hardly makes the news at all. I admit to being a little biased in my sporting preferances though.

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    yeah...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spoiler
    If you own one, trash it, or rebadge it.
    Or you may want to save it in case Lemond's bipolar symdrome kicks in again, forcing him to issue a full retraction and apology.
    boycott them. better yet, if youve got one sell it cheap or give it away to rid yourself of this unimaginable burden. preferably a poprad. like a 55 or so. you really dont want to be riding that bike any more now.

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    A cheaper solution

    Quote Originally Posted by blackhat
    boycott them. better yet, if youve got one sell it cheap or give it away to rid yourself of this unimaginable burden. preferably a poprad. like a 55 or so. you really dont want to be riding that bike any more now.
    A cheaper solution would be to insist all Lemond owners place two strips of electrical tape on their bikes, forming an "X" directly over the Lemond decal, on both sides. The strips must then remain until Greg issues a full apology accompanied with a retraction. Lemond owners will then receive a printed copy of Greg's statement, and they must keep the copy with the bike at all times.
    Just to make things fair, owners of Lemond LeWedge pedal inserts put a taped "X" over their shoes.

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