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  1. #26
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    Why does everyone think it is aluminum? It sure looks like a carbon steerer tube to me. Granted, it's not a very good picture, but you can easily tell by the fact the tube has a lot of variation and patches, the way carbon steerer tubes look, not uniform the way aluminum steerer tubes look.

    Anyway, I'm no expert on the trustworthiness of the steerer. I'd like to think it is probably ok as long as the isn't an actual cut in the carbon and it's just a slight compression from the clamping of the stem. Personally, I'd consider replacing it, but definitely keep an eye on it from time to time.

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    Please post a picture of the end of the steer tube, not the side.
    It's a unidirectional carbon layup. Besides Cannondale put full carbon forks on the CAAD10. I worked for a C-dale dealer for 3.5 years.
    You can't fix stupid.

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    I kind of wish it were legal to staple people in the face.

  3. #28
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    op, they're your teeth.
    Oh my, a troll who doesn't know the difference between your and you're. What will they think of next?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Not to take exception to what you write goodboyr because I believe you do this for a living and basically know what you are talking about....there is some variation in the industry how its done or acceptable practice. For example I have been building bikes with threadless headsets since they were invented and have never torqued the tensioning bolt to the point with the wheel off the ground and tilted that the handlebar won't turn as a pre-step. To me, this is too much compression on the bearings even though you suggest backing off on this level of headset tension.

    But back to the OP, the witness/score line you show 'can' but not necessarily be due to too loose a headset prior to the stem clamp bolts being tightened. A slightly loose headset can promote scoring of the steerer due to movement on the road over bumps. But typically score marks are a function of a stress riser aka stress concentration due to burrs on a stem/spacers and/or a slightly less than firm headset which promotes a slight tangential imprinting of the steerer due to high stress concentration relative to the rest of the clamping surface area.
    Btw, this is common and you likely see it everyday and FWIW it is no big deal at all unless score marks are deep in particular in carbon fiber.

    A last point about headset tightness. What's the beef if there is no 'chuckle'?..chuckle being the term for chucking/pitch of the steerer within the headset aka unwanted movement/rattle.

    The beef pertains to the bearings themselves. There is a phenomena in engineering due to higher frequency concentrated loading of bearings called 'brinelling' of bearings. Brinelling which is the namesake for Brinell hardness is due to spot loading of bearings due to pounding...what can occur with motion and vertical velocity of bearings against their seats. This ruins bearings of course and why preload is critically important to preclude this displacement. What is desired is Goldiocks...not too tight and not too loose. No vertical displacement but not too much compression which can also prematurely wear headset bearings.

    https://www.rexnord.com/blog/article...-is-brinelling
    Yup. The procedure I described was for integrated bearings, not for all regular threadless headsets with external cups for example. I assumed that's what the OP has.

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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodboyr View Post
    Yup. The procedure I described was for integrated bearings, not for all regular threadless headsets with external cups for example. I assumed that's what the OP has.

    Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
    I believe your assumption about what the OP has is correct...but OP if you are still watching, I would NEVER do what goodboyr does to ANY headset...torque the tension bolt to the point the bearing is crushed in thrust loading to freeze the headset with lateral hanging torque on the headset and then back the bolt off a bit and tighten the stem clamp. EVER.

    Different strokes.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Before doing so, loosen stem clamp bolts and hand fit the stem onto the steerer and determine where the interface of the stem or spacers are creating the score line. It is typically, right at the base of the stem clamp. This is because the base of the stem clamp is where the stem 'toggles' under load.
    It is mostly at the base of the stem where it meets the spacer. There are smaller marks lower down which make me believe it might also be the spacers doing it.

    I've also noticed on my newer bike cannondale has changed up the type of spacers so the whole edge doesn't come in contact with the steerer.

    Should I sand the bottom of the stem? How about the spacers? I'm thinking of just getting the newer ones that come on my supersix so it doesnt make things worse.

    Thanks

  7. #32
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    One thing I would never be non chalant about is a steerer.

    Op, get it checked out by someone truly qualified.

    When glass is cut a very light score mark is made then the glass breaks off clean.

    Youíre steerer may very well be fine, but itís not worth your face to listen to what a bunch of internet people say based on one picture.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepherder View Post
    It is mostly at the base of the stem where it meets the spacer. There are smaller marks lower down which make me believe it might also be the spacers doing it.

    I've also noticed on my newer bike cannondale has changed up the type of spacers so the whole edge doesn't come in contact with the steerer.

    Should I sand the bottom of the stem? How about the spacers? I'm thinking of just getting the newer ones that come on my supersix so it doesnt make things worse.

    Thanks
    Yeah, typically where the biggest score mark occurs is the intersection of the base of the stem with the top of the spacer stack just as you say.
    Its for simple reason that the stem is clamped to the steerer but it still toggles slightly at the bottom and the spacers are under compression but unrestrained comparatively. Keep in mind, this is design intent. Unless you are physically strong, steerers tend be very robust and expected to get score and witness marks on a carbon steerer as carbon isn't known for its abrasion resistance but this is a known property and engineers know it.

    What to do. You can always post pics of anything you want to consider. Have 600# grit wet sandpaper on hand is a useful staple. I debur stems whenever I build a bike because I don't like marks on my steerer. Btw, I do frequent stem changes on my bikes. I change my riding position a lot.
    So yes, putting a slight .3mm radius or so on the inside diameter edge of a stem isn't a bad thing. Also spacers are highly variable. Some have a pretty sharp inside diameter edge and can have a saw like quality on a mating carbon fiber steerer. It is the fiber within the carbon epoxy matrix that has the sawing effect...carbon fiber if sharp can be abrasive. Just try to visualize the stress when you twist the handlebars under a full sprint. If you are a weight lifter, you have more concern than if you are a 150 lb high cadence endurance rider or climber.

    Another 'trick' if you have any concern about the score mark on your steerer, is you can hide it within the clamping range of the stem. Shorten the spacer stack by 3-5mm or so and let the stem clamp support the steerer around the score mark.

    If you want to be real anal and concerned about the integrity of your steerer if you are powerful guy, you can slam a 17 deg riser stem. This will put the least amount of stress on the steerer because it lowers the moment arm.

    Post with any concerns. Lots of ways to skin the cat. As FF says, always safety first but if I had a nickel for every bike riding around with a score mark on the steerer like you show, I could buy an island.
    Last edited by 11spd; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:17 AM.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    One thing I would never be non chalant about is a steerer.

    Op, get it checked out by someone truly qualified.

    When glass is cut a very light score mark is made then the glass breaks off clean.

    Youíre steerer may very well be fine, but itís not worth your face to listen to what a bunch of internet people say based on one picture.
    Guys like you who don't know better are better to be safe than sorry.
    Respectfully.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    One thing I would never be non chalant about is a steerer.

    Op, get it checked out by someone truly qualified.

    When glass is cut a very light score mark is made then the glass breaks off clean.

    Youíre steerer may very well be fine, but itís not worth your face to listen to what a bunch of internet people say based on one picture.
    I think I'm actually being too anal about everything because it is carbon steerer and I'm not to familiar with carbon. Plus I've spent too much time reading horror stories on the net. Lol

    I actually did take it in to my lbs. They looked at it and said it's fine. But what makes them more qualified then 11spd? They inspected it quickly but I got the impression they didn't think much of it. They Said keep riding, they wouldn't worry if that was there steerer.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post

    Another 'trick' if you have any concern about the score mark on your steerer, is you can hide it within the clamping range of the stem. Shorten the spacer stack by 3-5mm or so and let the stem clamp support the steerer around the score mark.
    I was actually thinking of this and ordered a different compression plug as Cannondale or the FSa plug that comes with it doesn't like spacers above the stem (don't want to cut just yet) I've been told that plug sucks anyway. Not sure on that.

    Im just doing t this to make me feel better. As I've gotten enough reassurance that everything is fine. It's just a lot of people online don't like carbon and horror stories do scare me.

    Anyway thanks again
    Last edited by sheepherder; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:57 AM.

  12. #37
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    If that is a full carbon fork, I'll eat it!
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepherder View Post
    I think I'm actually being too anal about everything because it is carbon steerer and I'm not to familiar with carbon. Plus I've spent too much time reading horror stories on the net. Lol

    I actually did take it in to my lbs. They looked at it and said it's fine. But what makes them more qualified then 11spd? They inspected it quickly but I got the impression they didn't think much of it. They Said keep riding, they wouldn't worry if that was there steerer.
    (OP: take a new photo outdoors. That will be easier to see than the flash photo. )

    Most bike shops won't say something is okay unless it's obviously good. There's no upside for approving something that fails later.

    My carbon steerer has faint edge marks from my stem. I'm still riding it.

    Carbon steerers are made of many layers of carbon. It's not like glass, where a surface score causes the glass to break there.

    ~~~

    In 2016, Bianchi issued a warning for their carbon steerers. The photos are useful.

    Crushed layers from overtightening are dangerous. But surface marks are normal. Their photos were very helpful to me.

    The warning link from Bianchi.


    (photos don't always upload and show in the thread. You may need to click the Attach link to see it. These photos are on the Bianchi link above, too. )

    Crushing damage:

    Attachment 324108

    Are Marks (indent) on carbon fork from spacers normal?-steerer-2.jpg

    ~~~~

    Normal surface markings. You can see the circle where the stem was hollow inside, and the edge of the stem.

    Are Marks (indent) on carbon fork from spacers normal?-steerer-ok2.jpg

    Are Marks (indent) on carbon fork from spacers normal?-steerer-okay.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Are Marks (indent) on carbon fork from spacers normal?-steerer1.jpg  

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepherder View Post
    I think I'm actually being too anal about everything because it is carbon steerer and I'm not to familiar with carbon. Plus I've spent too much time reading horror stories on the net. Lol

    I actually did take it in to my lbs. They looked at it and said it's fine. But what makes them more qualified then 11spd? They inspected it quickly but I got the impression they didn't think much of it. They Said keep riding, they wouldn't worry if that was there steerer.
    the truth is, they may know less than 11spd.

    PS. one can never be too anal about a steerer tube.
    Oh my, a troll who doesn't know the difference between your and you're. What will they think of next?

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepherder View Post
    I was actually thinking of this and ordered a different compression plug as Cannondale or the FSa plug that comes with it doesn't like spacers above the stem (don't want to cut just yet) I've been told that plug sucks anyway. Not sure on that.

    Im just doing t this to make me feel better. As I've gotten enough reassurance that everything is fine. It's just a lot of people online don't like carbon and horror stories do scare me.

    Anyway thanks again
    Why don't you do this. If you want peace of mind, take a pic outside as suggested of your steerer. Also take a picture of your new compression plug. Curious what you ordered. Measure the penetration of the new plug. Ideally, you want it to support the steerer in the clamping area of the stem. Surprisingly the compression plug can induce a stress riser if right at the intersection of the stem clamp bottom...where the score line is...and the bottom of the compression plug.

    This all relates to stack height of your stem mounted to your steerer which of course can be adjusted. Reason why spacers are generally not advised above the stem is because then the compression plug doesn't penetrate deep enough to support the steerer where the stem is clamped.

    If you need help in figuring this all out, we can advise if you post pictures and basic measurements with new compression plug and spacer stack you plan on running under the stem. Not hard to figure out but attention to detail is key.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post
    (OP: take a new photo outdoors. That will be easier to see than the flash photo. )

    Most bike shops won't say something is okay unless it's obviously good. There's no upside for approving something that fails later.

    My carbon steerer has faint edge marks from my stem. I'm still riding it.

    Carbon steerers are made of many layers of carbon. It's not like glass, where a surface score causes the glass to break there.

    ~~~

    In 2016, Bianchi issued a warning for their carbon steerers. The photos are useful.

    Crushed layers from overtightening are dangerous. But surface marks are normal. Their photos were very helpful to me.

    The warning link from Bianchi.


    (photos don't always upload and show in the thread. You may need to click the Attach link to see it. These photos are on the Bianchi link above, too. )

    Crushing damage:

    Attachment 324108

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	steerer 2.JPG 
Views:	14 
Size:	37.6 KB 
ID:	324110

    ~~~~

    Normal surface markings. You can see the circle where the stem was hollow inside, and the edge of the stem.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	steerer ok2.JPG 
Views:	12 
Size:	46.9 KB 
ID:	324111

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	steerer okay.JPG 
Views:	11 
Size:	41.3 KB 
ID:	324112
    Yet another valuable post from rm-rf.
    Great post.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by factory feel View Post
    One thing I would never be non chalant about is a steerer.

    Op, get it checked out by someone truly qualified.

    When glass is cut a very light score mark is made then the glass breaks off clean.

    Youíre steerer may very well be fine, but itís not worth your face to listen to what a bunch of internet people say based on one picture.
    Not sure what cutting glass has to do w/ a carbon steerer.

    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    If that is a full carbon fork, I'll eat it!
    How can you not tell that steerer is carbon?
    I work for some bike racers
    I've got some bikes, some guns,
    and a bunch of skateboards

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by sheepherder View Post
    I actually did take it in to my lbs. They looked at it and said it's fine. But what makes them more qualified then 11spd? They inspected it...
    The reason the LBS is more "qualified" is because they actually inspected the steerer. 11spd, regardless of how much he might know, is working off a photo that is so bad that many (including him) initially thought it was an aluminum steerer. That's not an inspection.

  19. #44
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    !!!it is alum'in'ium!!!! DAM AUTO-UNCAPITALIZATION SOFTWARE!!!
    Last edited by duriel; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:02 PM.
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  20. #45
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    Well hell, if only I'd known I could simply score my carbon steerer tubes with a glass cutter and tap off the excess clean as can be then I could have saved a sheet load of money on hack saw blades and hard work elbow grease over the years.

    #Dayum
    .
    ďWhen the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking.Ē ― Arthur Conan Doyle

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by askmass View Post
    Well hell, if only I'd known I could simply score my carbon steerer tubes with a glass cutter and tap off the excess clean as can be then I could have saved a sheet load of money on hack saw blades and hard work elbow grease over the years.

    #Dayum
    Fair counterpoint. Carbon Fiber isn't glass but CF can be sensitive to high stress concentrations at the base of a stem depending on depth of the groove. And TC makes a good point about inspection by a so called expert at a shop...still a judgement call but quite right we are relying on a less than perfect picture.

    I believe most of us are on the same page about this. Carbon fiber steerer breaking off isn't new. Ask Hincapie.

    Also would help to learn more for a more total picture. Bike set up. Handlebar width and largely about the rider himself. 220lb guys that can bench press 300 lbs...I have such a friend who is an ex pro rider for Trek turned powerlifter... are more likely to break off a steerer than a 150 lb guy who can't press 100 lbs.

    Truth is, design is for outliers. If outliers are too outside the statistical bell curve, things break more often...steerers, wheels and frameset.

    So ideally we would need to learn more. A picture of the OP's setup, how many spacers he runs under his stem...how long a stem...long stems place greater stress on a steerer and if the OP can generate 1500 watts out of the saddle...and of course a better understanding of the groove.

    Chances are, there is nothing to see here but we don't know until we understand the full picture.

  22. #47
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    R i p, o p.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    Not sure what cutting glass has to do w/ a carbon steerer.
    Donít be fatuous, Jeffrey.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11spd View Post
    Chances are, there is nothing to see here but we don't know until we understand the full picture.
    Hope these pics are a little better. The FSA compression plug in the pick is how Cannondale wants it. I don't think it was installed correctly when the bike was built but I adjusted it when I learned about them a few years back. The other plug is longer then I thought. The length brings it right to the top bearing. I'm open to using any compression plug, even a different one from what I have.

    I'm not a power full guy. 175 lbs 6 feet tall. I don't race, just love cycling. This bike is now gonna be used in the fall and my travel bike. I like taking my bike with me when I go on vacation (if possible). Stem is 100 mm and I still have all the stock spacers under the stem. 30 mm or so.

    I wouldn't mind on recommendation if those compression plugs arnt right. I just bought a new bike, another Cannondale. It's gonna be the bike I use mostly in the summer and would like to avoid any issues with it. It's a supersix so it's practically the same setup as this bike.

    Thanks for all the help. All you guys been awesome.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Are Marks (indent) on carbon fork from spacers normal?-20181103_165545.jpg   Are Marks (indent) on carbon fork from spacers normal?-20181103_165508.jpg   Are Marks (indent) on carbon fork from spacers normal?-20181103_165444.jpg   Are Marks (indent) on carbon fork from spacers normal?-20181103_165240.jpg   Are Marks (indent) on carbon fork from spacers normal?-20181103_165223.jpg  


  25. #50
    'brifter' is a lame word.
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    I'd use the long one, that looks great.
    I work for some bike racers
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    and a bunch of skateboards

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