Millar said to admit to EPO use <sigh>
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  1. #1
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    Unhappy Millar confesses to EPO use <sigh>

    Reported in this morning's Equipe... Millar has reportedly admitted to EPO use and the police have been said to have found EPO ampoules at his house....

    ....oh, well... another one down.

    who will be next?

    A+
    Philippe
    Last edited by philippec; 06-25-2004 at 03:21 AM. Reason: updated title...

  2. #2
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    here's the report...

    Millar dans la tourmente

    Selon le quotidien l'Equipe daté du 25 juin, David Millar, le coureur écossais de l'équipe Cofidis aurait avoué avoir consommé de l'EPO, lors de sa garde à vue de 48 heures au commissariat de Biarritz dans le cadre d'une enquête sur un trafic de produits dopants.

    «Millar aurait reconnu avoir utilisé de l'Eprex (erythropoïetine) dans l'exercice de sa profession ce qui le place aujourd'hui réglementairement dans la même situation qu'un coureur contrôlé positif au regard de l'Union cycliste internationale», écrit le journal.

    Des ampoules d'EPO vides auraient également été découvertes par les policiers au domicile de David Millar lors de la perquisition effectuée peu de temps avant l'interrogatoire du coureur.

    David Millar devrait donc être convoqué par le juge Richard Pallain au tribunal de Nanterre pour être mis en examen, ajoute le quotidien. Le champion a été entendu par les enquêteurs de la brigade des stupéfiants jusqu'à jeudi midi.

    Le coureur écossais est soupçonné d'avoir utilisé des produits dopants et d'avoir participé à un trafic de produits dopants autour de l'équipe Cofidis. Il avait été mis en cause par le coureur Philippe Gaumont, un de ses anciens coéquipiers chez Cofidis.

    Huit personnes ont été mises en examen dans cette affaire : les coureurs Cédric Vasseur, Philippe Gaumont, Robert Sassone, Médéric Clain, Marek Rutkiewicz et Daniel Majewski, un soigneur, Boguslaw Madejak, et le directeur sportif d'une formation de 3e division, Oleg Kozlitine.

    from: http://www.equipe.fr/Cyclisme/20040625_091924Dev.html

  3. #3
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    Ouch...

    ...this will hurt Phil and Paul's feelings! Also, why on earth you would take that stuff and then leave the vials in your house is beyond me; especially since the Gendarmes are not really known for their fanatic probable cause policies. Not the smartest, that David, is he? Hmmmmm...

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    From Cyclingnews.com

    >>According to Friday's edition of L'Equipe, World Time Trial Champion David Millar (Cofidis) has allegedly confessed to taking EPO. Millar allegedly made the confession to French police while he spent 48 hours in custody in Biarritz this week.


    L'Equipe reported that empty ampoules of Eprex (EPO) were found by French police in Millar's house whilst he was being detained, writing "Millar recognised that he used Eprex (erythropoetin) in the practice of his profession which puts him in the same position as a positive rider in the eyes of the UCI."


    If this is the case, Millar will likely be charged by Nanterre judge Richard Pallain, who is heading the investigation into the Cofidis team, with illegal possession and use of toxic substances. So far, eight others have been charged in the affair which began early this year: Cédric Vasseur, Philippe Gaumont, Robert Sassone, Médéric Clain, Marek Rutkiewicz and Daniel Majewski (all riders), Boguslaw Madejak (ex-Cofidis physiotherapist), Oleg Kozlitine (former directeur sportif of Oktos).<<

    With all the allegations of doping, (aside from Millar) have any of these guys even won anything lately?

  5. #5
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    my own feeling is that...

    these guys are more concerned with showing their bosses that they are still worthy of another year's contract. A pro cycist can make good money for 10 yrs tops. What they don't make then, they likely won't make ever. After they retire, they either live off their savings/investments and bike-career-related jobs or they fall back on their plumbing/wiring/construction trade. Not a enticing prospect when you've had a few big paychecks and have kids to feed -- I'd guess that more than half the doping that takes place is "survival" doping (e.g. as in eeking out another contract) rather than "prestige" doping (e.g. doping for some big wins).

    A+

    Philippe

  6. #6
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    You may want to wait for a more reliable source then L'Equipe, especially with regards to non-French TdF riders.
    Dr. Cox: Lady, people aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard fillings. But I don't find them half as annoying as I find naive bubble-headed optimists who walk around vomiting sunshine.

  7. #7
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    Rats, I didn't want to know that.

    More than ever I hope that the folks who are trying to clean up sport succeed and even more I hope that no bigger star (such as Lance, Jan, Tyler, Roberto etc.) turns out to be involved.

    I wish I could just believe in heros but it is getting harder and harder to do so.

    Goodnight Marco where ever you are.

    Lets ride.
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    these are better than i was expecting, and my expectations were already rather high.

  8. #8
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    Unhappy but...(don't shoot the messenger)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolhand
    You may want to wait for a more reliable source then L'Equipe, especially with regards to non-French TdF riders.
    L'Equipe is one of the most respected and reliable sports dailies in Europe... they have an excellent reputation -- ask anyone that has covered sports and cycling here in Europe. They are not biased against "non-french TDF riders" and have in the past printed glowing articles concerning any number of non-french cyclists -- including some really nice pieces about Millar, Aremstrong, Hincapie, Hamilton, Julich, etc. They are reliable -- however, is their source reliable? Unfortunately ... probably... ...

    A+

    Philippe
    Last edited by philippec; 06-25-2004 at 05:02 AM. Reason: spelling

  9. #9
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    What an idiot

    All this shows is that if you're not quite 1st rate, some people will do anything to be 1st rate. I wonder when this all comes out in the wash, what percentage of Pro riders really do cheat? It would be easy to guess and throw some numbers down, but the "real" numbers would be interesting.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by seeborough
    ...this will hurt Phil and Paul's feelings! Also, why on earth you would take that stuff and then leave the vials in your house is beyond me; especially since the Gendarmes are not really known for their fanatic probable cause policies. Not the smartest, that David, is he? Hmmmmm...
    Millar has never struck me as the sharpest knife in the drawer. Plus, I got tired of Phil & Paul constantly talking him up; he never seemed to fulfill the potential others thought he had even with his time trial championship and stage win. I remember his stunt in the Vuelta when he peeled his race number before crossing the line during a stage. I thought that was rather petulant. He's also a buddy of Lance and while you can't make that assumption I wonder if others are thinking about that relationship.

  11. #11
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    L'Equipe's risk of being wrong

    There was a reason that Lance Armstrong brought legal action in England and France, but not in the US, with respect to the recent drug allegaions against him. English and French courts are much more willing to find for a plaintiff in libel actions than a US court. If L'Equipe is wrong on Millar it not only is risking its good reputation, but is very likely risking a major suit. From what I know of US publications, where the risk of a successful libel action is lower than in Europe, the publisher of an article that directly attacks the reputation and character of a major public figure is going to make sure that its source is good and reliable. My gut feeling is that L'Equipe's report is accurate.

    I like Millar and am saddened by the allegations. But, his "fragile mind" (a phrase that Phil Liggett used after his temper tantrum in the 2002 Vuelta) is even weaker than I had thought. Codfidis has been under investigation for months. How stupid can you be to continue to use EPO and have EPO vials in your house when your team is under active investigation?
    I try to be perfectly civil, until someone really pisses me off.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by philippec
    L'Equipe is one of the most respected and reliable sports dailies in Europe... they have an excellent reputation --
    That is a statement well open to debate on many fronts. The National Enquirer of the French sports scene is hardly the New York Times, lets put it that way. All I am saying is don't jump to conclusions yet based on one suspect report. If a second indepedent source has the same report then there may be some truth to it.

    Was Millar on the juice- could be. Half of his team (Cofidis) was, the team doctor was booted ect., so it wouldn't be a surprise at all. If true, then Cofidis is truly another Festina and needs to be barred from the TdF and Vuelta this year.
    Dr. Cox: Lady, people aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard fillings. But I don't find them half as annoying as I find naive bubble-headed optimists who walk around vomiting sunshine.

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    Unhappy This Looks Bad...But I'll Hold Out For A Statement From Millar

    This is horrible.....

    That said, I'll wait until Mr. Millar issues his own statement on the subject, which I would expect shortly. If he admitted it to the police, then he's toast. Ditto Cofidis.

    If it is true, then it says some interesting things about the effectiveness of the drug controls, especially the test for EPO. Millar has never tested positive. As we learned this fall from the revelations from the Kelme debacle, some riders believe that their use of illegal performance enhancing can be managed so as to escape detection. If Millar got away with using EPO, then we really need to figure out how he did it and what can be done to plug the holes in the system.
    It's Been Fun...See You Down The Road.

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    Greater implications for this year's TDF

    I think that Cofidis will likely not participate in Le Tour this year - with the organizers looking to cut out this tumor as quickly as they can. Unfortunately, as someone noted this is going to be another Festina affair with the tour under a cloud and many riders worried about when their shoe will fall.

    The most interesting thing about all the dopers being caught this year is how few of them have tested positive! Manzano, Millar (won stages), Vassur etc... all very active racers subject to tonsof tests and yet no positives! All the riders who say "but I have never had a positive test!" are full of excrement IMHO.

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  15. #15
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    Unhappy Unlucky for the new Cofidis riders?

    I feel bad for the new Cofidis riders who got involved in this affair. If Millar has indeed used EPO, he'll be punished for sure, but what of the other riders in the Cofidis squad, especially the new signups?

    The way the system is set up now, there is not much incentive for the teams to strictly enforce their anti-doping policies. I think that if the entire team (including the doctors and managers) are held accountable for the doping results of each and every rider, it may create the right checks in place for better practices in the sport. For example, if there is a rule that any pro team which rider is found positive is not allowed to race in any UCI race for a full month, then the team managers, doctors, and riders all have to watch out for each other and create the pressure against doping even within the teams. The risks for the sponsors would be much bigger than they are right now.

    Igor Astarloa's World Cup bid got derailed due to the suspension, and prompted him to move to Lampre. Stuart O'Grady's spring classics battleplan never even got off the ground, other than his crash in KBK and his resulting poor performance in de Ronde. Of course, one cannot yet say whether these two riders and their domestiques are clean, but it sucks to be them! Stuart O'Grady is one of my favorite cyclists and I was hoping that he'd finally get the supportive squad that he deserves.

    *sigh*

  16. #16
    wots...uh the deal?
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    So

    here we are in late June and another bunch of newspapers/magazines are sold and another prosecutor makes a name for himself. Right before the Tour, it was not coincidental timing that they waited a couple of months after the initial affair. JM LeBlanc should pull Cofidis' ticket for the July ride. But it's a French team...that will be interesting to play out.

    This is probably a real case and Millar is probably in real trouble. I don't want to make light of it. I also don't want to pithy it away as a witch hunt against non-French riders or such. I do want the sport to be clean and a level playing field.

    Was Millar just light on the training/race miles and looking for the extra edge just because Cofidis was suspended? (So he just juiced up the last couple months or so...) or has he been a habitual user and the WC TT jersey should move on to Michael Rogers?

    The rainbow curse continues.

  17. #17
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    please explain...

    where your characterisation of l'equipe as the "National Enquirer" of the sports scene comes from? That is a bit like calling the "Washington Post" the "National Enquirer" of the news scene...(granted.. some may argue this -- but I'm not going there!! ;-)

    Do you read l'Equipe every day and have come to this conclusion on your own (I do read it every day and have a diametrically opposed view of the paper). If not how did you come to this conclusion -- because I'm sure this view would surprise many an anglophone journalist who have come to depend on this source... and yes, I know a few, incl. Abt and C. Henry who would really have a hard time agreeing with your characterisation...

    But maybe you know something they dont....

    This said, I agree with you that until I hear it from the man himself (or from the judge at the time of sentencing) -- nothing is "proven". It just looks very, very, very bad for Millar.

    A+

    Philippe
    Last edited by philippec; 06-25-2004 at 05:52 AM. Reason: whoops.. hit enter too fast

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB1
    More than ever I hope that the folks who are trying to clean up sport succeed and even more I hope that no bigger star (such as Lance, Jan, Tyler, Roberto etc.) turns out to be involved.

    I wish I could just believe in heros but it is getting harder and harder to do so.

    Goodnight Marco where ever you are.

    Lets ride.
    I completely agree. Lets hope the big 4 mentioned above don't get pulled into this in the same way, although it wouldn't surprise me if they were up to their elbows in it.


    I just read this article on doping yesterday which doesn't make things look any better, even on a domestic level...

    http://www.racelistings.com/rzone/ar....asp?recid=329

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolhand
    That is a statement well open to debate on many fronts. The National Enquirer of the French sports scene is hardly the New York Times, lets put it that way. All I am saying is don't jump to conclusions yet based on one suspect report. If a second indepedent source has the same report then there may be some truth to it.

    Was Millar on the juice- could be. Half of his team (Cofidis) was, the team doctor was booted ect., so it wouldn't be a surprise at all. If true, then Cofidis is truly another Festina and needs to be barred from the TdF and Vuelta this year.

    There are other reasons the French have been cool to Armstrong. He hasn't had any French riders on his team for three years, he has been slow to embrace the French language, and in 2001 he moved his training base from Nice to Spain. His relationship with the French press, particularly the newspaper Le Monde, which aggressively pursued rumors that Armstrong had used performance-enhancing drugs, has been prickly at best.
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/fea...ture/28/lance/

    Among other links.

    But don't think this makes me anti-French or anything. The knee-jerk anti-French sentiment held by some in this country isn't held by me. Not only does it appear that France and Germany were right on the invasion of Iraq (save your breath right-wingers, or start a thread in the off-topic forum), our countries have been intertwined closely since 1776.
    Dr. Cox: Lady, people aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard fillings. But I don't find them half as annoying as I find naive bubble-headed optimists who walk around vomiting sunshine.

  20. #20
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    I understand now....

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolhand
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/fea...ture/28/lance/

    Among other links.

    But don't think this makes me anti-French or anything. The knee-jerk anti-French sentiment held by some in this country isn't held by me. Not only does it appear that France and Germany were right on the invasion of Iraq (save your breath right-wingers, or start a thread in the off-topic forum), our countries have been intertwined closely since 1776.
    Thanks for the link -- I read the article and understand your point of view. However, while the article talks about the Monde having a hard tooth against Armstrong -- you may be surprised to know they also have a hard-tooth against the populist Equipe newspaper (as opposed to LeMonde which views itself as an elitist/intellectual's paper). Le Monde reports all doping in cycling and in the many years I have read the paper, I have found them to treat all cyclists equally bad when it comes to dope use -- nothing targeted at any specific nationality. When things go bad in cycling, they report it -- when there are good things to report in cycling, they publish esoteric essays about the nature of male-female relationships from some of the many philosopher hacks the left bank seems to abound in. The point is that LeMonde doesn't particularly like cycling (and not that it dislikes american cyclists in particular).

    That said, I stand by l'Equipe as a fairly unbiaised source of info and one that has treated the Armstrong's, Sevilla's Jaschke's of the peleton rather well.

    Finally, while I understand the need to spice up reporting of the TDF as an "us vs. them" battle between the cocksure American winner from texas and the bitter gallic losers (see the 2nd para of the SI article for a fine example of inflamatory journalistic prose) -- I keep telling my American friends (and they find out for themselves when they come over), it simply isn't so. In fact the writer admits as much in the final 6 paragraphs which seem to contradict her statements in the begining of the article.

    sooo......

    here's to you coming over one day and sitting down in a café on the day of TDF stage w/ a steaming cup of coffee, a crispy croissant... and a copy of the Equipe on the table!

    Best,

    Philippe
    Last edited by philippec; 06-25-2004 at 06:22 AM. Reason: spelling...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolhand
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/fea...ture/28/lance/

    Among other links.

    But don't think this makes me anti-French or anything. The knee-jerk anti-French sentiment held by some in this country isn't held by me. Not only does it appear that France and Germany were right on the invasion of Iraq (save your breath right-wingers, or start a thread in the off-topic forum), our countries have been intertwined closely since 1776.

    Not trying to jump in here, but are you confusing L'Equipe with Le Monde? Aren't they different papers? <----asking, not stating...

    Russ
    Last edited by russw19; 06-25-2004 at 07:10 AM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by philippec

    here's to you coming over one day and sitting down in a café on the day of TDF stage w/ a steaming cup of coffee, a crispy croissant... and a copy of the Equipe on the table!

    Best,

    Philippe
    All that sounds great, especially if we can use that great train system to ride out to ride one of the mountain stages a day before the race, which is always been a dream of mine. There is a certain 21 switch-back climb I would love to do.

    Also, I may have mixed up L'Equipe with Le Monde in my head- it's Friday and I had a hard training day yesterday. My apologies.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by russw19
    Not trying to jump in here, but are you confusing L'Equipe with Le Monde? Aren't they differnet papers? <----asking, not stating...

    Russ
    As noted above, I think your right. I imagine that's like confusing the Washington Post with the Washington Times. Oh well. Guess I am buying the coffee and pasteries if I do make it to Paris.
    Dr. Cox: Lady, people aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard fillings. But I don't find them half as annoying as I find naive bubble-headed optimists who walk around vomiting sunshine.

  24. #24
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    Man, this sucks. It really exposes the worthlessness of drug controls.

    As for Lance, he has stated that he doesn't dope, so that's one tiny step beyond passing the tests. But I'd like to think that he couldn't be doping due to his near death experience with cancer, the possibility that his ex-wife would rat him out or that Sheryl Crow wouldn't condone such a thing (not sure why, but somehow she just doesn't seem like the type to tolerate cheating; then, neither does he). It is getting harder and harder to believe that the top riders aren't juicing when one after the other lesser riders are falling down.

    Regarding the comments on France, members of my family have recently visited there and, despite fear of recriminations, their experiences with the people there were thoroughly positive.

    Jacques Casanova, an honorary Frenchman and rabid traveler, wrote over two centuries ago the French were the only people who knew how to welcome visitors. Looks like it's still true. I hope to see for myself some day.


    Quote Originally Posted by philippec
    Reported in this morning's Equipe... Millar has reportedly admitted to EPO use and the police have been said to have found EPO ampoules at his house....

    ....oh, well... another one down.

    who will be next?

    A+
    Philippe
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by purplepaul
    Man, this sucks. It really exposes the worthlessness of drug controls.

    As for Lance, he has stated that he doesn't dope, so that's one tiny step beyond passing the tests.
    Actually, I believe he has always stated that he's never tested positive for any test, not that he's never taken performance enhancing drugs. Small, but important difference. Still, I hope it is the latter, in Lance and any other riders case.

    If Millar does admit to using EPO, I hope he'll cooperate with the authorities to let them know how he got away with it. The guy's a world champion and an overall good rider, he must have been tested hundreds of times! If it is true, then the system definitely needs an overhaul.

    Chris

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