Modern road bikes are over-engineered crap designed ONLY to make corporations money! - Page 3
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  1. #51
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFMessengr View Post
    If you don't think the big companies are massively marking up their products then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.
    So it should be easy for you or someone else to start a bike company, only mark up your bikes a little, sell them 'massively' cheaper, and put those big nasty companies out of business.


    You could be rich and famous!
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFMessengr View Post
    If you don't think the big companies are massively marking up their products then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.
    Aren't most companies in business to make a large profit at the expense of workers and consumers? So why pick on bicycle manufacturers specifically when there are so many banks and other financial institutions worthy of picking on. Don't like it? Start a company of your own.
    "If someone needs 200 rolls of toilet paper for a 14-day quarantine, they probably should have made a doctor's appointment way before the COVID-19 outbreak." -- Unknown

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.




  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    So it should be easy for you or someone else to start a bike company, only mark up your bikes a little, sell them 'massively' cheaper, and put those big nasty companies out of business.


    You could be rich and famous!
    Or Bikes Direct...or Bike Island, or Bikeshop warehouse....I just put together a bike for $1100 that you could not touch for under $2k in an LBS.

    I have been riding for 30 years, and I worked in an LBS. I don't want to get into a debate over BD, but the mark up on bikes is way more today than it use to be.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Aren't most companies in business to make a large profit at the expense of workers and consumers?
    At the expense of workers, in many cases yes. At the expense of consumers? No way. These businesses need consumers to survive. If the consumers are displeased, they will be gone and so will the business.

    As a side note, business monopoly is bad for the consumers, business competition is good for the consumers.

  5. #55
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFMessengr View Post
    Or Bikes Direct...or Bike Island, or Bikeshop warehouse....I just put together a bike for $1100 that you could not touch for under $2k in an LBS.
    When you say, put together. What do you mean? You bought all the parts and built it? If so, how long did that take? Searching for the best deals takes time. Building the bike takes time. I imagine you didn't figure in an hourly rate and overhead into your $1100. NOW, if you were to do that again to sell the bike, you'd want some profit. Putting you around the $2k mark.
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFMessengr View Post
    Or Bikes Direct...or Bike Island, or Bikeshop warehouse....I just put together a bike for $1100 that you could not touch for under $2k in an LBS.

    I have been riding for 30 years, and I worked in an LBS. I don't want to get into a debate over BD, but the mark up on bikes is way more today than it use to be.
    In general, bike shops pay 60 cents for every dollar they make on a new bike. That is not a whole lot when you consider the overhead of running a shop.

    If you can build your unassembled Bikes Direct bike yourself, that's great. Most will require assistance for this. A bike shop will happily put your Bikes Direct bike together and get it rolling for around $200, so technically you are still ahead. However, knowing someone who bought a Motobecane from BD, he was ready for a good LBS bike two years later after multiple issues with the Motobecane.
    "If someone needs 200 rolls of toilet paper for a 14-day quarantine, they probably should have made a doctor's appointment way before the COVID-19 outbreak." -- Unknown

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.




  7. #57
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    All of us "want" the top of the line, but do any of us really "need" top of the line for the specific type of cycling each one of us do?


    For decades, I've been getting top of the line because I work in the bicycle industry, have the resources and suppliers that are able to provide me the unobtainium, top of the line stuff.


    Am I a world-class level cyclist? far from it.
    Do I enjoy a simple bicycle ride without the fancy gear, of course I do.
    Luckily for me, I can still manage to own/store more bikes than I can ride.
    But for the majority of riding that I do, probably one bike would do.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by KiloKilo7 View Post
    ...................

    Now is the time to stage a revolt! Stop buying these ridiculous priced bikes that are over-engineered pieces of crap!
    Hmmm, a very interesting take on the situation, but since it's up to the individual to buy at whatever price one feels the item justifies, why get excited about it?

    There is no compulsion to buy, is there?

    BTW I look at this the same way I look at cars, gets one from A to B and back. How much "style and comfort" one requires, well strictly a personal choice unless one has to keep up with whoever.
    Cheers

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    Coldstream, BC Canada

  9. #59
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhB_HJ View Post
    BTW I look at this the same way I look at cars, gets one from A to B and back. How much "style and comfort" one requires, well strictly a personal choice unless one has to keep up with whoever.
    It's exactly the same.

    A Chevy Spark costs $13,220. Top of the line Corvette costs $135,895.

    Both will get you to the grocery store at the exact same time (obeying traffic laws). The Spark will carry more groceries. The Spark will get way better gas mileage.
    Clearly the Corvette is a ridiculous priced over-engineered piece of crap.
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Aren't most companies in business to make a large profit at the expense of workers and consumers? So why pick on bicycle manufacturers specifically when there are so many banks and other financial institutions worthy of picking on. Don't like it? Start a company of your own.
    Yeah, I mean, even with bikes... I mean, we often say bike when we mean frame... But if you are disgusted with the bike monoliths, and there is some sense to that, you can easily buy locally from a small manufacturer. Build up the bike however you want from there. I found a frame builder an hour away from me this winter. Vlad frames. If I jump across the River Brooklyn has a bunch of frame makers. If you want CF Parlee is in Boston 4-5 hours away? I built up a steel frame bike this winter for around $2500. I saw a comparable build on the Pros Closet, used, for 5K. And, my build was far more new parts, including a new frame. No one is a helpless wisp of dandelion floating on the winds of fate. You donít want to give Trek your money? Fine. Email Vlad. Heís really nice. And Iím pretty sure he isnít part of the evil empire.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFMessengr View Post
    Or Bikes Direct...or Bike Island, or Bikeshop warehouse....I just put together a bike for $1100 that you could not touch for under $2k in an LBS.

    I have been riding for 30 years, and I worked in an LBS. I don't want to get into a debate over BD, but the mark up on bikes is way more today than it use to be.
    You really, truly do not understand how the bicycle business works, past or present. 30 years riding experience gets you exactly zero knowledge.
    #promechaniclife

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    The Spark will carry more groceries. The Spark will get way better gas mileage.
    Clearly the Corvette is a ridiculous priced over-engineered piece of crap.
    You are forgetting this effect.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    It's exactly the same.

    A Chevy Spark costs $13,220. Top of the line Corvette costs $135,895.

    Both will get you to the grocery store at the exact same time (obeying traffic laws). The Spark will carry more groceries. The Spark will get way better gas mileage.
    Clearly the Corvette is a ridiculous priced over-engineered piece of crap.
    The new Corvette is an insane bargain for what it does, and I am a Porsche guy. Well, was, LOL.

    When I worked at a shop long ago mark ups were 25-30% but you made it up by selling other stuff and services. The bike bus. was not the place to go if your priority was making money. Shops are like conveyor belts today.

    Having said that, there just did not seem to be so much talk about money and upgrades. Campy was Campy and there was Dura ace but never thought as much about it, or maybe I was Niave. We talked about riding and cars and beer. We discussed more beer than bike.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
    You really, truly do not understand how the bicycle business works, past or present. 30 years riding experience gets you exactly zero knowledge.
    The only thing I do know is you guys train like Nancy boys today.

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    I will say this: The Bike I threw together is freakin fast. Whatever you guys have been doing keep it up. And I know R and D takes money. Carbon especially, the cost of production has comedown.

    I still say there are excessive mark ups. 30% is plenty.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFMessengr View Post
    The new Corvette is an insane bargain for what it does, and I am a Porsche guy.
    Porsches are ridiculously priced over-engineered pieces of crap. I can order a car over the internet, have it delivered for free and put it all together myself.
    "If someone needs 200 rolls of toilet paper for a 14-day quarantine, they probably should have made a doctor's appointment way before the COVID-19 outbreak." -- Unknown

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.




  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Porsches are ridiculously priced over-engineered pieces of crap. I can order a car over the internet, have it delivered for free and put it all together myself.
    Or, you could have a local shop assemble it for $200.

  18. #68
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFMessengr View Post
    I still say there are excessive mark ups. 30% is plenty.
    lol Clueless.
    I've worked in various industries for close to 30 years. Nothing is sold under 30%.
    OEM markups are generally 30-50%. A place I previously worked, aftermarket parts were marked up 100-200%.

    I've got a few current project budgets here in front of me.
    $1,600,000 with a 33% mark up.
    $400,000 with a 38% mark up
    $54,000 with a 40% markup
    $49,900 with a 53% markup
    (also 3% commissions on top of all those)

    You should start a bike company and sell bikes at a 20% markup. You could sell lots of cheap bikes and be rich and famous for upending the evil bike industry!
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFMessengr View Post
    I will say this: The Bike I threw together is freakin fast. Whatever you guys have been doing keep it up. And I know R and D takes money. Carbon especially, the cost of production has comedown.

    I still say there are excessive mark ups. 30% is plenty.
    Ever been in a furniture store?
    Too old to ride plastic

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    I've worked in various industries for close to 30 years. Nothing is sold under 30%.
    Maybe groceries at a supermarket, not much else.

    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    You should start a bike company and sell bikes at a 20% markup. You could sell lots of cheap bikes and be rich and famous for upending the evil bike industry!
    Be sure to save some $$ to hire some lawyers so you don't get wiped out in your first lawsuit when someone gets injured on one of your cheap bikes.
    "If someone needs 200 rolls of toilet paper for a 14-day quarantine, they probably should have made a doctor's appointment way before the COVID-19 outbreak." -- Unknown

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.




  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    Or, you could have a local shop assemble it for $200.
    Mookie's Garage will do it for $100.
    "If someone needs 200 rolls of toilet paper for a 14-day quarantine, they probably should have made a doctor's appointment way before the COVID-19 outbreak." -- Unknown

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.




  22. #72
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Maybe groceries at a supermarket, not much else.
    True. There are some small goods which are sold at very high volumes.
    Custom Di2 & Garmin/GoPro mounts 2013 SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD Team * 2004 Klein Aura V

  23. #73
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    I am going to stick to my original position: You are all Nancy Boys!


    Good Lord you guys are easy to Troll. I post up a thread asking for a fork recommendation....nothing. Yet this thread gets 4 pages.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFMessengr View Post
    I am going to stick to my original position: You are all Nancy Boys!
    How old are you? This remark looks like something a 14 year old would post.

    And what makes you think we're not having fun trolling the trolls? I'm about to make more popcorn.
    "If someone needs 200 rolls of toilet paper for a 14-day quarantine, they probably should have made a doctor's appointment way before the COVID-19 outbreak." -- Unknown

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.




  25. #75
    tlg
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFMessengr View Post
    I am going to stick to my original position: You are all Nancy Boys!
    Take your homophobic slurs and F' off.
    Custom Di2 & Garmin/GoPro mounts 2013 SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD Team * 2004 Klein Aura V

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