New bike and fit
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  1. #1
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    Help with new bike purchase

    Basically:

    1) how would the fit of a Large Canyon Ultimate compare to my current 58 cm S1?

    2) how big of an impact would going from 44cm bars to 41 bars be?

    3) Seat post setback?

    4) Is this the best bang for buck option? I mean, Di2 for $3700!?

    5) What other considerations in the $3500 and under category?

    6) Is the Endurace more of what I should be looking at?

    6a) for similar price Endurace, no integrated stem/bar and other such niceties. Big deal?

    7) 7.0 vs 8.0 Di2? Is reg Ultegra even worth it?

    8) DT Swiss P1800 vs P1850?

    9) How do you mount a Wahoo on a Canyon with integrated bar/stem?

    10) Fizik Antares R5 vs R7 - don't even see either on Fizik site?


    Thanks in advance for the same question asked west again (what bike should I get)...

    Basis for questions:

    I have posted before, but was basically just lusting. But now, I have secured approval from the finance committee! I told her at most $4500, knowing I didn’t want to spend that much, but got approval for that amount. I am trying to do my research now, but am having some confusion/difficulties in comprehending what I am seeing.

    I currently ride a Cervelo S1 (58 size), so it is fairly aggressive of a position. I have a 100mm stem with a -6* stem, with all spacers (42mm-ish) underneath it. That was a recent change from the same stem, +6* with 32ish underneath it. I hit a point last year where I felt a longer position and a touch lower would be ideal. My bars are 44cm c-c Zipp Service Course SL 70 Ergo. I tell all of that to inform one of my main questions. I know the most important thing (after color of course) is how it fits.

    Using VelogicFit or whatever it is, I have comparing my current bike to various other models to compare, mainly the Canyon Ultimate. But, I am confused that my “aggressive” stack/reach of current bike ends up not being all that different from the Ultimate when bars and stem are factored in. Also, not sure how big of an impact millimeters of difference are.

    Also, the Ultimate (in L) comes with 41cm bars and a 110mm stem. I heard someone say it “acts like a 42/120 though.” I can look at stack and reach all day long, but it seems the current gen of Shimano shifters are a bit longer, plus the longer stem, plus a different reach of bar. So how do I actually compare different bikes, especially given that Canyon's cannot be test ridden or parts changed out?

    Since 105 and Ultegra are so similar now, is regular Ultegra even worth it? I understand that is a question only answerable for individuals, I feel like the most worthy considerations would be 105 and Ultegra Di2, right? Is Di2 really that much of a game changer?

    Other bikes I am looking at include: Cannondale SuperSix Evo, Trek Emonda SL6, Giant TCR Advanced 1. Any others?
    Last edited by lightning33; 04-30-2019 at 05:02 AM. Reason: Endurance to Endurace

  2. #2
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    #4, what are u going to do when shimano goes to 12spd? They don't sell out of production components.
    #6a, what are u going to do when you want to change angle/lenght of stem.... maybe several times?
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  3. #3
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    I removed the integrated bar/stem from my Canyon after the 2nd ride. I couldn't stand the feel and shape of the bars at the corners behind the brake hoods.

    Note that it has a 1 1/4" steerer, so you will have to shop around for a compatible stem.

    That said, I love my Endurace.

  4. #4
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    4) I don't understand. I was asking about a Di2 bike being a good deal, not the future of Shimano components. They will always innovate and move on to something bigger and better.

    6) That's is kinda the point of my question. An integrated bar is nice, but I can't tell if, based on the specs/dimensions, it will fit me.

    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    #4, what are u going to do when shimano goes to 12spd? They don't sell out of production components.
    #6a, what are u going to do when you want to change angle/lenght of stem.... maybe several times?

  5. #5
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    I stopped by a bike shop at lunch today and the guy was selling/pushing a Trek Domane. It made me think about whether an "endurance" bike is a better fit. I mean, I don't race and the comfort/endurance is just as fast (for those group rides and competitive rides with friends) as the lightweight/all-around bikes. Right?

    I know the value of an LBS, but haven't bought my bike from a local shop and stuck around the area to live the value of it. The salesman also asked if I was trying to replicate my current fit. Since I paid for that fit, I guess I was trying to. But he was saying it is a new bike that should be fit of its own accord. How should I go about thinking about this new bike?

    The struggle is real.

  6. #6
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    Oh, and why do all of the endurance bikes come with 50/34 and 11-34? I switched FROM a compact TO a 52/36 and I like it, but can't easily go with 52/36 and an endurance geometry...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightning33 View Post
    4) I don't understand. I was asking about a Di2 bike being a good deal, not the future of Shimano components. They will always innovate and move on to something bigger and better.
    You're right, you don't understand. If you buy an 11spd shitmano now, and 12spd shitmano comes out next year, you will not be able to find replacement or alternative parts for your bike, period. I'm going through that right now with my present Di2 10spd bike now. Sorry, but I'm a little pissed!
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    You're right, you don't understand. If you buy an 11spd shitmano now, and 12spd shitmano comes out next year, you will not be able to find replacement or alternative parts for your bike, period. I'm going through that right now with my present Di2 10spd bike now. Sorry, but I'm a little pissed!
    11 speed Di2 came out in early 2013.

    Have you tried asking at the local shop to see if they can get them from Shimano?

  9. #9
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    Is there a way to tell if the Canyon Ultimate or Endurace will fit or position me correctly? I feel like i am interpreting the numbers incompletely or simply looking at stem length/angle in a vacuum.

  10. #10
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    Very good drive train, tires (32c stock), decent alloy wheels, good frame, and very smooth riding--really smooth for a road bike.
    https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...e=black_orange

  11. #11
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    I’m missing a few things here... You have a good baseline knowledge of the geo. Are you inflexible? Bad back? Why would you want endurance geo unless you can’t ride a more aero geo? 85% of your wind resistance is YOU. Why would you buy an expensive bike that increases your wind resistance on purpose? If a more aggressive geo isn’t realistic for you, then great, get a bike you are comfy on... But don’t give up aggressive geo without a fight.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  12. #12
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    The longer your rides are, the more important comfort and compliance is.

    I learned this the hard way, spending way too much money on an expensive lightweight/aero'ish race bike.

    It was fast. At least it felt fast. But it kicked my ass after 65 miles or so, and I was ready to get off.

    I switched to a bike that was a little more comfortable, had good compliance features and could comfortably fit 32mm tires.

    It was like night and day for long rides.

    The more aggressive, stiffer race bike was surely faster up a short steep climb, but I'm much faster over long rides (80 miles plus) on the "endurance" bike. I can stay on the bike longer without taking breaks, ride longer with more energy.

    Bike #1: BMC TeamMachine SLR 01 Ui2
    Bike #2: Canyon Endurace CF SLX Ui2

  13. #13
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    After not getting a ton of responses at first, I thought maybe I was not clearly conveying what I am seeking. But then I realized I don't even know what I am trying to ask, and so did some thinking.

    To answer some questions that have been asked.

    -I do not have major back problems
    -I am not the most flexible, but not the least either. I have been working on it. As a simple test, I can, with straight legs, touch my toes, but barely.
    -I have ridden my current bike (Cervelo S1) on several centuries, one of which was over 8500' of climbing. No issues from my body...other than riding 100+ miles...
    -On my last ride, I did get a serious crick in my neck that started to affect my wrists (from the nerve impingement)

    I was thinking endurance geometry simply at the recommendation of a salesman on a lunch time stop. No other reason. Now, I DID think last year at some point I wish my handlebars were a touch higher (and longer), but that's it. A fleeting thought.

    I have kinda narrowed down the search to a few models. I am keeping the Canyon Ultimate in there, but have also greatly considered the Emonda and the Tarmac. Truth be told, there is something about Specialized in general that I just don't want to like, but man does that bike appeal to me. I kinda liken Specialized to Oakley in the 90s - it was THE brand, but then didn't innovate and tried to ride their name until all the other brands surpassed them but they didn't realize it. I picture Specialized as heading that route and think they are oversaturated. Just opinion.)

    There are differences in spec between all three for different price points. The Specialized being the most expensive. For example, the Tarmac Comp (3500) and Tarmac Expert (4750) are about 1200 apart. The expert has the "better" frame and carbon wheels. The wheels alone are 1200 minus let's-say a few hundred for the wheels on the Comp, so that leaves a few hundred for the "better frame." Is that few hundred worth it for the lighter carbon, D-shaped seatpost, pressfit BB, hidden seat clamp, etc) Are those wheels that good?

    Same for Emonda SL6 and SL7. But for the SL7, it has Di2 (for 5100). I am not even sure I like/want Di2. I feel like I would break the shifter by trying to shift the way I am used to. Probably not.
    Last edited by lightning33; 05-05-2019 at 02:56 PM.

  14. #14
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    I was looking at getting an endurance bike as I wanted to get a 34 in the back, but I've figured out a way to get it done with my current Di2 bike, so I'm not.

    I did look at the endurance geo, compared to my standard pino I got. I am getting older and wanted to be able to move in a more relaxed geo, especially if I was going to get a new bike to take me into the 70's. I'm really more flexible than I have ever been, but that still isn't a lot... but I figured out with the endurance geo, I could get to almost where I am today with a slammed 17deg stem (mounted horizontal) and a deeper drop bars.
    Once you go electronic, you'll never go back!
    And I would never get any of that fancy stuff, it is expensive later to change your setup & parts may not be available.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by duriel View Post
    I was looking at getting an endurance bike as I wanted to get a 34 in the back, but I've figured out a way to get it done with my current Di2 bike, so I'm not.

    I did look at the endurance geo, compared to my standard pino I got. I am getting older and wanted to be able to move in a more relaxed geo, especially if I was going to get a new bike to take me into the 70's. I'm really more flexible than I have ever been, but that still isn't a lot... but I figured out with the endurance geo, I could get to almost where I am today with a slammed 17deg stem (mounted horizontal) and a deeper drop bars.
    Once you go electronic, you'll never go back!
    And I would never get any of that fancy stuff, it is expensive later to change your setup & parts may not be available.


    What fancy stuff?

    My ego was put off that with the endurance geo bikes, they come with a compact upfront and a 34 in the back as standard...pretty much across the board. I switched TO a 52/36 from a 50/34 and I like it. Also, I did my Fondo (100+ miles with nearly 10k in vert) on 52/36 and 12-25 and only struggled a little bit. Not bragging, certainly, as the numbers say I did it but not well; I do like the idea of 11-30 with a 52/36.
    Last edited by lightning33; 05-05-2019 at 04:18 PM. Reason: spell check

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightning33 View Post
    I currently ride a Cervelo S1 (58 size), so it is fairly aggressive of a position. I have a 100mm stem with a -6* stem, with all spacers (42mm-ish) underneath it.
    Why are you using a -6° stem with 42 mm of spacers? That's kind of a bizarre setup. Flip that stem to +6° and get rid of half the spacers. Your steerer tube will thank you.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    Why are you using a -6° stem with 42 mm of spacers? That's kind of a bizarre setup. Flip that stem to +6° and get rid of half the spacers. Your steerer tube will thank you.
    I guess that was not exactly correct. The 42 is 15 of the headset cap(?) and then the standard 27.5 of spacers.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightning33 View Post
    I guess that was not exactly correct. The 42 is 15 of the headset cap(?) and then the standard 27.5 of spacers.
    Okay, I don't know what "the standard of 27.5 mm of spacers" means, but if you've got 27.5 mm under the stem, that's a lot. Flip the stem up and get rid of about 20 mm of spacers.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    Okay, I don't know what "the standard of 27.5 mm of spacers" means, but if you've got 27.5 mm under the stem, that's a lot. Flip the stem up and get rid of about 20 mm of spacers.
    Fair enough.

    I thought it was standard that bikes came with 2 x 10mm, 1 x 5mm, and 1 x 2.5mm spacers. Bottom line, I have them all on there.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightning33 View Post
    Fair enough.

    I thought it was standard that bikes came with 2 x 10mm, 1 x 5mm, and 1 x 2.5mm spacers. Bottom line, I have them all on there.
    Bikes sometimes come a collection of spacers, but you normally don't use them all. If your present fit is good, then you could put 7.5mm of spacers under the (+6°) stem, and then cut the steerer tube so that you had maybe one 5mm or 10mm spacer above the stem. (The only real reason to have spacers above the stem is to have the option of raising the stem at some point in the future.)

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    Bikes sometimes come a collection of spacers, but you normally don't use them all. If your present fit is good, then you could put 7.5mm of spacers under the (+6°) stem, and then cut the steerer tube so that you had maybe one 5mm or 10mm spacer above the stem. (The only real reason to have spacers above the stem is to have the option of raising the stem at some point in the future.)
    Thanks!! I will flip the stem and consider chopping the steerer.

    At any rate, the wife is letting me get a new bike, so I am definitely taking advantage of that...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightning33 View Post
    Thanks!! I will flip the stem and consider chopping the steerer.

    At any rate, the wife is letting me get a new bike, so I am definitely taking advantage of that...
    Are you planning to sell your present bike? If so, you might want to forgo cutting the steerer at this point, in order to maximize the number of potential buyers.

    My wife approved my new road bike in January. Tomorrow she gets fitted for her new bike. Wouldn't you know it, hers will end up costing more. I think I was duped.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    Are you planning to sell your present bike? If so, you might want to forgo cutting the steerer at this point, in order to maximize the number of potential buyers.

    My wife approved my new road bike in January. Tomorrow she gets fitted for her new bike. Wouldn't you know it, hers will end up costing more. I think I was duped.
    What did you have and what did you get?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightning33 View Post
    What did you have and what did you get?
    I was riding a Colnago CX-Zero. My new bike is a Factor O2.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
    I was riding a Colnago CX-Zero. My new bike is a Factor O2.
    Very nice. What drove your decision? I am trying to figure out my new bike now (hence, this thread).

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