New to here, Knock, Knock...
Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    Luo
    Luo is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    8

    Red face New to here, Knock, Knock...

    New to here, Knock, Knock...
    Last edited by Luo; 01-16-2019 at 07:03 PM.

  2. #2
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Fredrico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    26,773
    Quote Originally Posted by Luo View Post
    Hello, Everyone,

    This is my first day be here, this is my very first thread at roadbikereview.com

    Just be here is because I've happened to see an thread title "Cheap Chinese Titanium vs. Custom or Name Brand Titanium" on google.

    and as it happens, I am a normal person and right doing the titanium raw material exporting at a medium-size factory belongs to CHINA AEROSPACE SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION ( CASC GROUP ), I guess some people may know this group, who is producing the rockets and others bla bla, if anyone don't know and interested, pls visit www.spacechina.com to know more of this group, CASC GROUP holds many factories, include some titanium material factories, we are one of them, and we mainly producing small and medium size diameter titanium wires and bars, some for welding, some for machine fasteners, application include rockets and missiles, medical field, petrochemical industry, vehicle and bicycle modifying and others.

    back to the above thread which attract me here,
    in a salesman side, many times many customers only give a very simple RFQ or drawing with vague description, and some parts the supplier even don't know it's final application environment, after the supplier offered this products, the surface mabe not clean and with defects, but this is do according his requirements.
    in customer side, he will become worried the quality of the products which he received, if he could offer a detail description RFQ or give an exact specification / standard to an reliable supplier, this would significantly reduce the risk of quality problems.

    do not let your actual needs hidden in your heart, and only have an illusion that you will receive perfect products without your detailed description.

    and meanwhile, I had read a great article which name is "What makes a good supplier?" at https://www.the-reseller-network.com...good-supplier/
    I've inspired a lot by this article, hope this article can get you inspired and help you guys find a good supplier too.

    in the end, pls do not have a racial prejudice on the Chinese normal people, we are the same with other races people, most Chinese are hard working, honest, kind and merciful.

    thank you for your stand my poor English and your patience.
    You may be searching in the wrong place. The level of discussion or feedback you desire on titanium products, viz. bike frames, is above the heads of a large portion of enthusiasts who frequent RBR. There are a few engineers who could relate to the technical terms defining response characteristics, but most of us just love bikes.

    Most of us have only our riding experiences to judge relative qualities of steel, aluminum, carbon, or titanium frames, which themselves vary greatly. There's also so much else other than frame materials governing bike handling. With frames, "modulus of elasticity" is knocked about frequently.

    The old 1" tubes standard for years were a little more flexible using ti than the common steel formulas of the time, so ti manufacturers made the tubing larger to stiffen up the handling. I'm not sure if this canceled out the legendary quality ti earned as a comfortable and slightly lighter, but as responsive an option as CRMO steel.

    Small builders addressing a niche market keep going back to steel, probably because ti is more difficult to work with, drawing out the seamless tubing, bending it, welding it together. So Lightspeed and Lynsky [Lightspeed's principle builder for a while] specialized in ti, taking advantage of their experience. A riding buddy has purchased two titanium custom frames from a factory in China. He's so pleased with the results, he's talked about marketing a line.

    There must be a future for ti among enthusiasts willing to spend the money. Advertise on bike websites, visit the trade shows! If it rides like a Pinarello, you'll have a market!

  3. #3
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    123
    Not a fan of anything from China. The government and “private industry” are two sides of the same coin. They steal the western democracy’s technological and intellectual property on a massive scale every day.
    Last edited by Eschelon; 01-15-2019 at 06:08 PM. Reason: Wrong spelling

  4. #4
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Fredrico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    26,773
    Quote Originally Posted by Eschelon View Post
    Not a fan of anything from China. The government and “private industry” are two sides of the same coin. They steal the western democracy’s technological and intellectual property on a massive scale every day.
    The same old story, goes back to 1900. US consumers used to complain about the Chinese knock offs of home furnishings, etc. copying American products and underselling them. They've been beating us at our own game ever since. Smart, ambitious people. Look at Taiwan and Hong Kong. The government protects their interests like governments are supposed to do. Socialism takes care of the workers.

  5. #5
    Luo
    Luo is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    8
    Actually I just a normal Chinese, I've regretted to see you are right negative all the Chinese people because of some Chinese had hurt you before. I just see China is right working with this problem, such as we can free download music/e-books from many China website years before, in recent years this is not exist, many times consumers must pay before get the original file. for me, at my daily work I receive many drawings from my old and new customers from worldwide, we never copy customer's drawings, knowledge methods and ideas without customer's authorized or after their orders. instead, our engineers and experts suggests our customers to adjust and improve their products for to help customers get a better and perfect products when our side find a better way.

  6. #6
    Luo
    Luo is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    8
    Do not deny all because of some people's fault, or you just like a wimpy kid.

  7. #7
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Akirasho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,442



    … benefit of the doubt? Sometimes a banana is just a banana.

  8. #8
    Russian Troll Farmer
    Reputation: No Time Toulouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    2,273
    I'm not certain whether you are a spammer, or if your English language comprehension is lacking enough that you don't realize what you are saying.

    But as for what I think is your point about the quality of Chinese products (and with your incomplete knowledge of our language, it's hard to tell just what you mean to say....), but from my experiences in manufacturing supplier quality, I can say with certainty that Chinese quality control is on the whole rather lacking, and quite variable.

    We accept this ONLY because of lower cost of sourcing things from China, and the REAL quality control only happens after things arrive here in the U.S. Placating us by flowery language and admonitions about incomplete specifications does not change the fact that a larger percentage of things shipped will fail to meet expectations.

    I might be interested in buying, say, 1000 bike frames with the knowledge that at least 50 will fail standards as long as the price is good. If I'm just buying 1 frame for myself, I would not be willing to make the same risk.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  9. #9
    flinty-eyed moderator
    Reputation: Coolhand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    12,816

    Moderators Note

    You know what, I want to see where this is going- so it stays open for now.

  10. #10
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    6,270
    Products that are made in China are made there with "cost control" as their number 1 parameter. Quality control is down on the list of priority. Western companies know this, but they still choose to do it anyway because it saves them money, and ultimately that's why they do business in China.

    This is not to say that the Chinese cannot make good products if/when they want to. They could if they want to. But China right now has a "product image" problem. People buying Chinese are buying to save cost, not buying because they want a great product (even if the product is in fact great). China's has long ago established itself as the factory of the world geared toward producing low-cost products, and this stigma will stick with them for a while.

    So in conclusion, China is capable of making great products, they could do it. But unfortunately for China, they have long ago pigeon-holed themselve as the master of cheap product, and Western companies who do business with China do so based on this cost-saving model, at the expense of quality control.

    This is really not hating on China or Chinese (btw, there are many other non-mainland Chinese around the world too). But there is absolutely no doubt that most China made products are cheap.

    The only big Western company that has successfully manage to make great products in China AND be able to sell them at premium prices is Apple.

  11. #11
    Russian Troll Farmer
    Reputation: No Time Toulouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    2,273
    To the OP: I think you have the idea that people who run bicycle manufacturing come here. I know we have at least 1 company sales rep, a couple high-end mechanics, and 3 or 4 custom frame and wheel builders, but that's about it. If we have even 1 member who owns a company that makes more than 20 bikes a year, I haven't seen him. If you are trying to drum-up business to the industry, you are in the wrong place.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  12. #12
    Luo
    Luo is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    8
    I just consider here is a bicycle fans forum, I had want to make friends with other fans here, and just want to learn what the fans are most interested at, include what's the fans' real ideas on the metal material, especially titanium material.

    my aim here is 95% for learning from others, and 5% for help others if they need or want high quality Ti material, I'd like to learn their ideas or give them some help, even I can offer them some free materials to test, compare, DIY research...

    but ok, I delete all my thread here, and thank you guys for let me learn so many opinions and ideas, I love you guys : )

  13. #13
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Fredrico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    26,773
    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Products that are made in China are made there with "cost control" as their number 1 parameter. Quality control is down on the list of priority. Western companies know this, but they still choose to do it anyway because it saves them money, and ultimately that's why they do business in China.

    This is not to say that the Chinese cannot make good products if/when they want to. They could if they want to. But China right now has a "product image" problem. People buying Chinese are buying to save cost, not buying because they want a great product (even if the product is in fact great). China's has long ago established itself as the factory of the world geared toward producing low-cost products, and this stigma will stick with them for a while.

    So in conclusion, China is capable of making great products, they could do it. But unfortunately for China, they have long ago pigeon-holed themselve as the master of cheap product, and Western companies who do business with China do so based on this cost-saving model, at the expense of quality control.

    This is really not hating on China or Chinese (btw, there are many other non-mainland Chinese around the world too). But there is absolutely no doubt that most China made products are cheap.

    The only big Western company that has successfully manage to make great products in China AND be able to sell them at premium prices is Apple.
    Observers said that about Japanese cars in the late '50s. Then Sony invented the solid state transistor radio. Korea went through a similar process. The Chinese have reliable technology indistinguishable from American or European touted quality. My Indian riding buddy had great success with the custom titanium builder he dealt with in China. If OP is interested, I'll find out who he was.

  14. #14
    [REDACTED]
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,615
    Your English is fine and I'm sure it's better than my Mandarin, LOL!

    But, you seem to be copy and pasting the exact same thing on a few different threads. This is poor forum etiquette and smacks of SPAM. Don't do that.

    As far as the quality of Chinese products, I'm sure there are good ones, but I have seen too many failures of poor ones to be comfortable buying an unfamiliar brand of Chinese wheel set or bike frame. When I see stuff like this, I run the other way:

    https://forums.roadbikereview.com/wh...os-355401.html

    And to be fair, there are knock-off USA based companies I wouldn't buy from either.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  15. #15
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    6,270
    Quote Originally Posted by Luo View Post
    I just consider here is a bicycle fans forum, I had want to make friends with other fans here, and just want to learn what the fans are most interested at, include what's the fans' real ideas on the metal material, especially titanium material.

    my aim here is 95% for learning from others, and 5% for help others if they need or want high quality Ti material, I'd like to learn their ideas or give them some help, even I can offer them some free materials to test, compare, DIY research...

    but ok, I delete all my thread here, and thank you guys for let me learn so many opinions and ideas, I love you guys : )
    why did you delete you post dude?! I would have liked to hear about your ideas and experience from China. This topic has a lot of potential for discussions and explorations and idea sharing. So don't go

  16. #16
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation: Akirasho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,442
    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Your English is fine and I'm sure it's better than my Mandarin, LOL!

    But, you seem to be copy and pasting the exact same thing on a few different threads.

    ?? what? wait?! my species lacks opposable thumbs! without copy and paste, I couldn't post at all!!!

  17. #17
    Russian Troll Farmer
    Reputation: No Time Toulouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    2,273
    Quote Originally Posted by Luo View Post
    I just consider here is a bicycle fans forum, I had want to make friends with other fans here, and just want to learn what the fans are most interested at, include what's the fans' real ideas on the metal material, especially titanium material.

    my aim here is 95% for learning from others, and 5% for help others if they need or want high quality Ti material, I'd like to learn their ideas or give them some help, even I can offer them some free materials to test, compare, DIY research...

    but ok, I delete all my thread here, and thank you guys for let me learn so many opinions and ideas, I love you guys : )
    If that were true, why post all the spam from what I assume is your employer? No, you are here to drum up business, which is OK in the right forum but is really pointless here. I may be going out on a limb, but I doubt that ANYBODY here is interested in buying titanium tubing in bulk from you or anybody else. The custom framebuilders here almost exclusively work in steel; titanium is just too difficult to weld outside of a factory setting.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  18. #18
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    6,270
    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    If that were true, why post all the spam from what I assume is your employer? No, you are here to drum up business, which is OK in the right forum but is really pointless here. I may be going out on a limb, but I doubt that ANYBODY here is interested in buying titanium tubing in bulk from you or anybody else. The custom framebuilders here almost exclusively work in steel; titanium is just too difficult to weld outside of a factory setting.
    I don't get the vibe that he posted to sell his products, but to defend the notion that China products shouldn't be automatically regarded as cheap. And his defense was that it's not that Chinese make cheap products on purpose nor that China is incapable of making good products.., but it's that the people who specs the products are purposely spec it cheap (to save cost of course). He has a point. Apple makes great products and they're mostly made in China.

  19. #19
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    6,270
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrico View Post
    Observers said that about Japanese cars in the late '50s. Then Sony invented the solid state transistor radio. Korea went through a similar process. The Chinese have reliable technology indistinguishable from American or European touted quality. My Indian riding buddy had great success with the custom titanium builder he dealt with in China. If OP is interested, I'll find out who he was.
    Americans used to laugh at Japan. Now Americans look at made in Japan as premium, even more so than made in USA.

    On a personal note, whenever I see made in USA, I have this envision of a "union product" (which to me is low quality or high priced).

  20. #20
    [REDACTED]
    Reputation: Lombard's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    9,615
    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    Americans used to laugh at Japan. Now Americans look at made in Japan as premium, even more so than made in USA.
    You do have a point here. But let's remember that when Japanese cars were first introduced over here, they weren't the best. The Japanese got their foot in the door so-to-say by offering a fuel efficient budget alternative to American gas-guzzling behemoths. And it didn't help that every American attempt at producing a low-cost fuel efficient car (Vega, Pinto, Hornet), was a joke at best.

    Early Japanese cars turned out to be more reliable than their American counterparts, but rust was a show stopper. Even so, with fuel prices rapidly increasing, American consumers were rapidly gobbling up these "Japanese beetles" as American car companies continued to poo-poo it all. The Japanese car companies solved the rust issues and up went their prices!

    Remember Korean auto maker Huyndai's first cars over here. They were pathetic. Now they are one of the big players and fairly reliable.

    My point is, when a new player comes onto the scene, they are more oriented toward cost savings than quality. And I won't say that there aren't Chinese sourced products that are good quality. But there are most definitely some turkeys too. And until a product has some miles and reputation behind it, I'm not sticking my toe in the water. I'm not going to be the Guinea pig.

    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    I don't get the vibe that he posted to sell his products, but to defend the notion that China products shouldn't be automatically regarded as cheap. And his defense was that it's not that Chinese make cheap products on purpose nor that China is incapable of making good products.., but it's that the people who specs the products are purposely spec it cheap (to save cost of course). He has a point. Apple makes great products and they're mostly made in China.
    Not a good argument. Apple is an American company that has factories in China who make their product's to Apple's specs.
    Last edited by Lombard; 01-18-2019 at 05:36 AM.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

    “Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.” -- Aaron Levenstein



  21. #21
    Russian Troll Farmer
    Reputation: No Time Toulouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    2,273
    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    I don't get the vibe that he posted to sell his products, but to defend the notion that China products shouldn't be automatically regarded as cheap. ....
    No, he posted spam in a different sub-forum, with full graphics and links to some Chinese titanium tube manufacturer. I guess that post was taken down. This guy is a salesman.
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  22. #22
    Luo
    Luo is offline
    RoadBikeReview Member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    8
    ah..., Sorry, we are not a titanium tube manufacturer, we are a China titanium wires/bars factory, will bicycles need big quantity Ti wires/Bars? I don't think so. yes, I am a salesman, but I explained clearly that my main aim here is not sale but learn, and I deleted my only two main threads here when the very first time someone said it's spam, buddy.

Similar Threads

  1. Knock Knock // Who's There
    By locustfist in forum Racing, Training, Nutrition, Triathlons
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-18-2011, 10:28 AM
  2. Knock, knock?
    By tihsepa in forum Components, Wrenching
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 03-23-2010, 07:19 AM
  3. [knock, knock, knock] hello? helooooooo???
    By 2cflyr in forum The Lounge
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 08-28-2009, 03:30 PM
  4. The new energy policy will knock your socks off
    By eddie m in forum Politics Only
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-22-2007, 08:25 AM
  5. Knock, knock, who's there?
    By cydswipe in forum Components, Wrenching
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-27-2006, 04:10 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT ROADBIKEREVIEW

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.