• 06-09-2004
    Henry Chinaski
    new Stanford study on back pain
    Back pain comes up frequently on this board. Whenever I hear what sounds like a case of chronic pain, and not a simple issue caused by poor bike fit/position/lack of fitness, I always post my experience with the Dr. Sarno book on back pain, which "cured" me and got me back on my bike after three years of miserable back pain--after I had been told by several doctors that I had "herniated" discs and that I would probably never ride my bike again (not good news to someone who had been riding and racing seriously for over ten years). Two week after reading the Sarno book I got back on my bike and have been completely pain free for the last six years. Over the years I've posted the Amazon link on this site, and there have been a few people who have come back and thanked me for posting it, stating that it had "cured" them, too. But generally it is met with skepticism, especially by those who have undergone surgery for back pain, which is understandable.

    Anyway, there is a new Stanford study on back pain that tends to support Sarno's finding, so I thought I'd post it. Here it is for those who are interested.

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-pfm051304.php

    Basically, Sarno has always stated that there is NO relationship between "damage" shown with sophisticated imaging, and pain. Take 100 people complaining of back pain and 100 people with no pain, do imaging on both groups and you'll find an equal number of people with "herniated" discs in each group. Sarno maintains that what some doctors call "herniated" is simply a natural part of the aging process, and doesn't indicate any damage has been done. Instead, the pain is the result of something your brain is doing--which does in fact cause very severe pain. In my case, I couldn't understand why a friend of mine had literally broken his back in a nasty mtb fall, had major surgery and was happily back riding his bike a month later with no pain, while I was still a mess after years of seeing a PT, doing every abdominal exercise in the book, etc. I had always felt that my pain/numbness/tingling was essentially muscular in nature, and that's why when I found the Sarno book it just clicked for me.

    Clearly, if you experience back pain, you should see a doctor--it could be caused by something like a tumor. But if you're getting the "herniated" disc story and the doctors are recommending surgery, I'd at least recommend reading the Sarno book first. My guess is that in the next 10-20 years there will be a major shift in how back and other chronic pain is treated--that doctors will start paying much more attention to the role the brain plays in this.

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...l/-/0446392308
  • 06-09-2004
    colker1
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski
    Back pain comes up frequently on this board. Whenever I hear what sounds like a case of chronic pain, and not a simple issue caused by poor bike fit/position/lack of fitness, I always post my experience with the Dr. Sarno book on back pain, which "cured" me and got me back on my bike after three years of miserable back pain--after I had been told by several doctors that I had "herniated" discs and that I would probably never ride my bike again (not good news to someone who had been riding and racing seriously for over ten years). Two week after reading the Sarno book I got back on my bike and have been completely pain free for the last six years. Over the years I've posted the Amazon link on this site, and there have been a few people who have come back and thanked me for posting it, stating that it had "cured" them, too. But generally it is met with skepticism, especially by those who have undergone surgery for back pain, which is understandable.

    Anyway, there is a new Stanford study on back pain that tends to support Sarno's finding, so I thought I'd post it. Here it is for those who are interested.

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-pfm051304.php

    Basically, Sarno has always stated that there is NO relationship between "damage" shown with sophisticated imaging, and pain. Take 100 people complaining of back pain and 100 people with no pain, do imaging on both groups and you'll find an equal number of people with "herniated" discs in each group. Sarno maintains that what some doctors call "herniated" is simply a natural part of the aging process, and doesn't indicate any damage has been done. Instead, the pain is the result of something your brain is doing--which does in fact cause very severe pain. In my case, I couldn't understand why a friend of mine had literally broken his back in a nasty mtb fall, had major surgery and was happily back riding his bike a month later with no pain, while I was still a mess after years of seeing a PT, doing every abdominal exercise in the book, etc. I had always felt that my pain/numbness/tingling was essentially muscular in nature, and that's why when I found the Sarno book it just clicked for me.

    Clearly, if you experience back pain, you should see a doctor--it could be caused by something like a tumor. But if you're getting the "herniated" disc story and the doctors are recommending surgery, I'd at least recommend reading the Sarno book first. My guess is that in the next 10-20 years there will be a major shift in how back and other chronic pain is treated--that doctors will start paying much more attention to the role the brain plays in this.

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...l/-/0446392308

    my mother has undergone three, THREE major back operations(6/7 hrs) and the pain comes back the same way.. i tried to dissuade her on the last 2 operations but how can you convince someone not to do it when she is lying oinpain and the doctor just said the operaion would alleviate??
    most of the times modern medicine performs miracles but sometimes...
  • 06-09-2004
    shaq-d
    instead of giving us a big advertisement about a book, give us the summary of what the doc recommends. don't tell me that's not possible.

    sd
  • 06-09-2004
    Henry Chinaski
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by shaq-d
    instead of giving us a big advertisement about a book, give us the summary of what the doc recommends. don't tell me that's not possible.

    sd

    Just click the Amazon link. There's plenty of summary info on the Amazon site. You can also read the first few pages of the book.
  • 06-09-2004
    DaveG
    I few years back I had some problems with back pain. I got the earlier Sarno book "Mind over Back Pain". I started to notice a pattern that my back pain was coincident with major customer presentations and other work-related stress. Anyway I followed his advice and have not had any problems since. Worked for me. For Shaq-d, the book is very simple - ignore the back pain. I know that sounds stupidly simplistic but the premsie of his book is that there is nothing physically wrong with your back, you cannot harm your back by doing normal stuff, and if you convince yourself of that, the pain will end.
  • 06-10-2004
    peros
    Not dissing the book, but...
    There are times when surgery is necessary. For example if you have a severe nuerological deficit, loss of feeling and weakness. I suggest you try just about every other option prior to surgery and do as much research as possible. BUT If you have any kind of nerve invovlement see a good nuerologist fast.Then go see 2 more.

    I picked up the more recent Sarno Book (Henry recommended it when I posted about sciatic problems, of course I came back with some heavy skeptical sarcasm) I read the book and it is actually pretty interesting. I was a total skeptic going in but I understand how Sarno's philosophy could work. Didn't for me though (I had one of the biggest lumbar disc herniations the nuero had seen) and had surgery a month ago.

    Interesting stuff.
  • 06-10-2004
    ramboorider
    Sarno
    I think people who are having debilitating chronic back pain (in pain nearly every day, to the point that they significantly reduce or stop physical activity) should check out Sarno. My brother was in that situation and claims Sarno did him a huge amount of good (although he still has plenty of bad spells with his back).

    I've had very low grade back pain for years, but it's never kept me from being very active (except for an occasional day or two once every few years). Last year I had a really bad acute problem that various doctors attributed to my numerous herniated disks. I didn't buy it, didn't have surgery, did lots of yoga and pilates, and it eventually cleared up. I was eventually able to isolate the problem to a pair of snow boots with a messed up heel that actually twisted my hip out of wack and that's what caused the problem. I had to wear those boots a lot in the winter of '02-'03 and ended up in the ER I was in so much pain. After it was resolved, I started wearing them during snow season again this year and started having a lot of the same warning symptoms. I finally figured it out and once I stopped wearing them, no more problems! I still have constant light numbness in my right shin area from that and I've lost the reflex in my right knee, so it did some real, actual nerve damage.

    But during this really bad bout in '03, I read Sarno's book on my brother's recommendation and it didn't help at all. It turned out there was a real acute physical problem at work and ignoring it was not possible and would not have been useful either. So if you have a chronic situation, Sarno's approach might take care of it for you - it may be rage/stress related rather than physical. But if your back is usually ok and you have an acute flair up worse than you've had, I'd guess the cause is not just stress.

    -Ray
  • 06-10-2004
    smokey422
    I read Sarno's book and am glad it works for some....
    but it didn't for me. I've been diagnosed with degenerative disc disease and arthritis brought on by a motorcycle accident and a lifetime of hard, back-damaging work. The orthopedic surgeons I've seen don't recommend surgery, they say as long as I can live with it that it's better to avoid the scalpel. So what works for me? Keeping my weight down and my fitness and circulation up by riding my bicycle and using some stretches and exercises that I've found work for me. The absolute worst thing you can do for back pain is to become a couch potato and let your weight go up while your fitness goes to pot. That's what my dad did, as well as ruining his stomach with high doses of aspirin. I'd recommend that anyone with back pain learn as much as possible by searching the internet and reading books, including Dr. Sarno's. His methods have worked for a lot of other people and might be the answer for you. And don't forget to exercise!

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski
    Back pain comes up frequently on this board. Whenever I hear what sounds like a case of chronic pain, and not a simple issue caused by poor bike fit/position/lack of fitness, I always post my experience with the Dr. Sarno book on back pain, which "cured" me and got me back on my bike after three years of miserable back pain--after I had been told by several doctors that I had "herniated" discs and that I would probably never ride my bike again (not good news to someone who had been riding and racing seriously for over ten years). Two week after reading the Sarno book I got back on my bike and have been completely pain free for the last six years. Over the years I've posted the Amazon link on this site, and there have been a few people who have come back and thanked me for posting it, stating that it had "cured" them, too. But generally it is met with skepticism, especially by those who have undergone surgery for back pain, which is understandable.

    Anyway, there is a new Stanford study on back pain that tends to support Sarno's finding, so I thought I'd post it. Here it is for those who are interested.

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-pfm051304.php

    Basically, Sarno has always stated that there is NO relationship between "damage" shown with sophisticated imaging, and pain. Take 100 people complaining of back pain and 100 people with no pain, do imaging on both groups and you'll find an equal number of people with "herniated" discs in each group. Sarno maintains that what some doctors call "herniated" is simply a natural part of the aging process, and doesn't indicate any damage has been done. Instead, the pain is the result of something your brain is doing--which does in fact cause very severe pain. In my case, I couldn't understand why a friend of mine had literally broken his back in a nasty mtb fall, had major surgery and was happily back riding his bike a month later with no pain, while I was still a mess after years of seeing a PT, doing every abdominal exercise in the book, etc. I had always felt that my pain/numbness/tingling was essentially muscular in nature, and that's why when I found the Sarno book it just clicked for me.

    Clearly, if you experience back pain, you should see a doctor--it could be caused by something like a tumor. But if you're getting the "herniated" disc story and the doctors are recommending surgery, I'd at least recommend reading the Sarno book first. My guess is that in the next 10-20 years there will be a major shift in how back and other chronic pain is treated--that doctors will start paying much more attention to the role the brain plays in this.

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...l/-/0446392308