The Once and For All, End All Be All, Chain Lube Thread - Page 2
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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDM View Post
    There are studies that show homemade penetrating oil as good as the commercial equivalent can be made by diluting the lubricating oil with 10% acetone. I'm not sure how much OMS differs in this application, but diluting motor oil with 50% OMS seems you are diluting it too much. Beware that acetone dissolves some plastics so make sure the the bottle you use can handle it (HDPE 2 works). Acetone also evaporates quickly whereas OMS doesn't.
    The formula has been much debated over the internet. I remember intense debates on this back in the USENET days. The theory is that with more dilution, it makes a better chain cleaner and leaving less oil on the surface on the chain allows it to run cleaner. I've tried as much as 4 parts OMS one part oil and it hasn't seemed to make much difference in the intervals between cleaning and re-lubing.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    The formula has been much debated over the internet. I remember intense debates on this back in the USENET days. The theory is that with more dilution, it makes a better chain cleaner and leaving less oil on the surface on the chain allows it to run cleaner. I've tried as much as 4 parts OMS one part oil and it hasn't seemed to make much difference in the intervals between cleaning and re-lubing.
    I'm a believer in taking off the chain and clean it that way, either in a water bottle with a mix of boiling hot water and Simple Green or an ultrasonic cleaner.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDM View Post
    I'm a believer in taking off the chain and clean it that way, either in a water bottle with a mix of boiling hot water and Simple Green or an ultrasonic cleaner.
    Unnecessary, not to mention stripping the old lube out of the rollers and introducing water won't allow the water to dry out of the rollers before some rust develops.

    Not to mention how long do you think that pristinely clean chain will stay that way if you properly lube it afterwards? Maybe about 20 miles.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Unnecessary, not to mention stripping the old lube out of the rollers and introducing water won't allow the water to dry out of the rollers before some rust develops.

    Not to mention how long do you think that pristinely clean chain will stay that way if you properly lube it afterwards? Maybe about 20 miles.
    I want to strip out the old lube and dirt. I dry the chain either out in the hot sun or blow out with compressed air.

    So? What you are doing is making grinding paste (I.e., grit and oil).

    Jobst Brandt wrote never oil a dirty chain.


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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDM View Post
    I want to strip out the old lube and dirt. I dry the chain either out in the hot sun or blow out with compressed air.

    So? What you are doing is making grinding paste (I.e., grit and oil).

    Jobst Brandt wrote never oil a dirty chain.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My grinding paste approach has my chains lasting 8000 miles between changes and they still haven't shown much increase in pin to pin length so probably should go longer but it just doesn't seem right. I'll probably just stick with it and keep ruining my chains.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srode View Post
    My grinding paste approach has my chains lasting 8000 miles between changes and they still haven't shown much increase in pin to pin length so probably should go longer but it just doesn't seem right. I'll probably just stick with it and keep ruining my chains.
    Exactly. At 6000 miles much less 8000 miles, a chain doesn't owe me anything.

    MCM, how many miles do your chains last? As for the "grinding paste" theory, how long do you think it takes for that "grinding paste" to redevelop in a totally clean chain?

    As Kerry Irons implied above, the mineral spirits added to the oil works out a lot of that dirt and grit.
    "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein.

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    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
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  7. #32
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    The Once and For All, End All Be All, Chain Lube Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    Exactly. At 6000 miles much less 8000 miles, a chain doesn't owe me anything.

    MCM, how many miles do your chains last? As for the "grinding paste" theory, how long do you think it takes for that "grinding paste" to redevelop in a totally clean chain?

    As Kerry Irons implied above, the mineral spirits added to the oil works out a lot of that dirt and grit.
    I don't keep records and admit to being lazy on occasion and oiling a dirty chain. I've also forgotten to measure and have been caught out with a skipping new chain and had to buy a new cassette and/or chainring on occasion.

    From Sheldonbrown.com:

    Primitive rule #1: Never oil a chain on the bike.

    This means the chain should be cleaned of grit before oiling, and because this is practically impossible without submerging the chain in solvent (kerosene, commercial solvent, or paint thinner), it must be taken off the bicycle. Devices with rotating brushes that can be clamped on the chain while on the bicycle, do a fair job but are messy and do not prevent fine grit from becoming suspended in the solvent. External brushing or wiping moves grit out of sight, but mainly into the openings in the chain where subsequent oiling will carry it inside.

    Never use gasoline because it is explosive and contains toxic light petroleum fractions that penetrate skin. Removing the chain from the bicycle isn't always possible. There are times (after riding in the rain) when a chain screams for oil and good cleaning is impractical. Fortunately, after riding in heavy rain, the chain is fairly clean and in that case rule #1 may be violated for humanitarian reasons. However, only an internally clean chain squeaks, so it isn't as bad as it sounds. Also, water is a moderately good lubricant, but it evaporates as soon as the road dries.

    Removing solvent from the chain after rinsing is important. Compressed air is not readily available in the household, nor is a centrifuge. Manually slinging the chain around outdoors works best if the chain is a closed loop but without pressing the pin completely in. The other way is to evaporate it. Accelerated drying methods by heating should be avoided because they can be explosive.

    Lubricating the chain with hot 90W gear lube works but it is also efficient fly paper, collecting plenty of hardpack between sprockets and on the outside of the chain. Motor oil is far better, but motorcycle chain and chainsaw lubricants are better yet, because they have volatile solvents that allow good penetration for their relatively viscous lubricant. Paraffin (canning wax), although clean, works poorly because it is not mobile and cannot replenish the bearing surfaces once it has been displaced. This becomes apparent with any water that gets on the chain. It immediately squeaks.

    [I have found that motor oil works poorly: it washes out of the chain due to its detergent properties -- John Allen.]

    Lombard, what's your criteria for when to replace a chain? I try to replace at 12 1/16".

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDM View Post
    Lombard, what's your criteria for when to replace a chain? I try to replace at 12 1/16".
    12 1/16 is the best time to replace unless you want to have to also replace the cassette.

    Any idea how many miles you get out of a chain? Can you get 6000 miles out of a chain with no measurable wear? I do.
    "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein.

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  9. #34
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    And if we go into lock down again, you have lots and lots of idle time and are bored out of your mind, you can try this project:

    https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html
    "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein.

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    12 1/16 is the best time to replace unless you want to have to also replace the cassette.

    Any idea how many miles you get out of a chain? Can you get 6000 miles out of a chain with no measurable wear? I do.
    I think it's about what you guys are getting, maybe a little more. I vaguely remember getting around 10,000 miles out of a chain some years back, but I could be wrong. I'm getting good life out of them, but as I said, I've got to be more religious about measuring them for wear more often so I don't ruin cassettes and chainrings.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDM View Post
    I think it's about what you guys are getting, maybe a little more. I vaguely remember getting around 10,000 miles out of a chain some years back, but I could be wrong. I'm getting good life out of them, but as I said, I've got to be more religious about measuring them for wear more often so I don't ruin cassettes and chainrings.
    10,000 miles is certainly feasible. I'm pretty sure I could have gotten that out of my chain had it not been for the stiff link. As I mentioned before, there was no wear when I replaced it at 6000 miles. So whatever I did prevented wear. Could a more vigilant approach prevented that stiff link? Maybe, maybe not. It hardly seems worth the trouble of removing the chain when I'm getting the wear or lack thereof I'm getting.

    I think Kerry Irons has the right idea as posted earlier:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Irons View Post
    If you use a more dilute lube formula (3 parts odorless mineral spirits to one part oil) and flood the chain with it while pedaling the bike in the work stand, you will simultaneously clean the chain by fluidizing all the gunk and grit. Wiping the chain well and letting the solvent evaporate (lube after the ride, not before it) leaves lube inside the chain and a clean outside.

    "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein.

    "With
    bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."
    -- DCGriz, RBR.





  12. #37
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    I recently waxed a newish chain using molten wax and ptfe powder. Its amazingly clean after 1200 miles but I might re do it at about 2000.

    Is it any good you'll no doubt ask - well it's too soon to show wear but it's as clean as the day I waxed it. I remain optimistic

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

  13. #38
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    I used a homebrew 50/50 mineral spirit and synthetic oil for a few years. Last winter I found something slightly better, I use ATF first to lube and clean the chain, wiper it clean after that. Then I started using straight Haldex fluid to lubricate the chain.

    ATF cleans the chain really well, may not be as well as removing the chain and cleaning it with kerosene( but who has time for that?). Haldex (synthetic 4WD gear oil on new cars) is very thin comparing to 90 weight oil or engine oil, so I do not mix it with mineral spirit.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by barryandjanetwil View Post
    I recently waxed a newish chain using molten wax and ptfe powder. Its amazingly clean after 1200 miles but I might re do it at about 2000.

    Is it any good you'll no doubt ask - well it's too soon to show wear but it's as clean as the day I waxed it. I remain optimistic

    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
    You should get good wear from wax, and of course it's clean, but my beef is you have to rewax too often, which is a pain, like every 200 miles, which is less than two weeks for me.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    Its bad typing on my part. I meant Odorless Mineral Spirits (aka paint thinner). Initially I used synthetic oil as was the approved internet recipe. Since then, I have the opinion that regular oil made from dinosaurs works just the same
    Just to be clear, synthetic oils are made from dinosaurs too. They just take a more circuitous route to get from crude oil to oil in the can. Commence organic chemistry lesson in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, . . .

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by barryandjanetwil View Post
    I recently waxed a newish chain using molten wax and ptfe powder. Its amazingly clean after 1200 miles but I might re do it at about 2000.
    There have been lots of discussions about waxing and waxing formulas and I have NEVER heard of anyone getting that kind of mileage between waxings. Typically "wax fans" agree that you have to wax often but that the clean chain makes up for it. Maybe you are just using the wax as a carrier for the ptfe but it seems like anything that dry would flake out of the chain long before 1200 miles. How does your wax formula hold up if you get caught in the rain?

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by barryandjanetwil View Post
    I recently waxed a newish chain using molten wax and ptfe powder. Its amazingly clean after 1200 miles but I might re do it at about 2000.

    Is it any good you'll no doubt ask - well it's too soon to show wear but it's as clean as the day I waxed it. I remain optimistic
    Nope... don't believe you one ity bity single bit.


    MSPEEDWAX uses paraffin & PTFE.
    https://moltenspeedwax.com/pages/why...tal%20surfaces.
    Wax has impressive longevity. A waxed chain in dry road conditions can be ridden 500 miles or more with one waxing (we’ve had a test chain go over 800 miles before squeaking). We don’t recommend this long an interval - stick with around 350 to 400 miles


    Gee... maybe you should be selling your secret sauce and making $$$$$$
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  18. #43
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    yes I'll sell you my formula but surely no need for such aggression. You can have it free.

    My chain is clean, not squeaking and indexing fine. Maybe its wearing my cassette and chainrings horrendously, that's something I've naively yet to check, and in light of your doubts I'm going to rewax it immediately.

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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by barryandjanetwil View Post
    Maybe its wearing my cassette and chainrings horrendously, that's something I've naively yet to check
    Tell us how you check the wear on your cassette and chainrings.
    It's probably as fantastical as the frequency you wax.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tlg View Post
    Tell us how you check the wear on your cassette and chainrings.
    It's probably as fantastical as the frequency you wax.
    I think my waxing period, at this time, needs to be measured in years as I've only waxed once and I've yet to measure it.

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    Sturmey archer


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    Quote Originally Posted by seaswood View Post
    Try this.


    Do they still make the units this stuff is used on.. ??? Good one though.

    Hey I ordered some Chain L from FB in NY. Guy actually is an encyclopedia per bikes. I go south in 2 weeks.. I'll clean the chain and gears.. measure wear.. and give it a go.

    IME.. chain wear is directly due to the crud that gets to the pins. Lots of very fine sand locally.. not much southern residence...chains last much longer there.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aladin View Post
    I ordered some Chain L from FB in NY.
    this is my lube of choice.

    routinely go 700-800 miles between applications.

    chain life is excellent, 8-12K miles
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by azpeterb View Post
    I've been using Dumonde Tech Lite lube for years and it works well. The best thing about it is the smell. It's heavenly. Some call it huffing but I prefer to think of it as fragrance appreciation.
    I've tried nearly every major brand of lube and have settled on Dumonde Tech Lite for road cycling in southern CA. It's clean, quiet, and a little goes a long way.
    I use the regular Dumonde on dirt and gravel bikes...smells even better than the lite version

  25. #50
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    Lillylube. It is brilliant for road cycling use.

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