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Pitbull pedal packaging design

35K views 439 replies 32 participants last post by  thatsmybush 
#1 ·
Quick question for everyone. This is our first design for our packaging. It's recycled cardboard and simple black and white identification labeling. Keeps it simple and inexpensive. Thumbs up or thumbs down? Or if anyone has any constructive suggestions we are open to that as well.
 

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#18 ·
I feel like we've been through this before, and no, you are not open to constructive criticism.
I really do feel that we are but I cannot change the entire design because of a few peoples thoughts.

meh. bland and uninteresting, but most people probably don't buy hardware based on the aesthetics of packaging.
the dog looks demonic...
We feel that our product has been simplified so much and is so easy to use we are sticking with the same theory on the packaging to keep costs as low as we possibly can. We are trying to use recycled materials in the boxing. I do not feel the dog is demonic looking, its smiling when I look at the picture.


Someone's been using Pitbull pedal already. This picture was taken over the weekend.

Hysterical. I love it.

It's a fine design for your product. Good graphic for your design, bringing to mind "strong grip".
A red box would pop more on screen, and in a display case. I would think red is not meaningfully more expensive, and will still work with the black and white design you have for the labels.
Make sure your liability insurance is paid up, and your business is set up in a way that shields you from personal liability. A new pedal will be open to consumer lawsuits in a way pedals that are established products are not. That spindle puts a hole in someone in a way that no other pedal on the market would have, you'll have some 'splaining to do.
I do suggest that you have someone put a thousand miles on the pedal with your final cleat design. More would be better, more people, more miles. Because a few bad reviews early on for wearing out quickly will kill your sales. Such as they might be.
Although I think your pedal design is crap to the point I would short your business if I could, I might be wrong, and I do hope you find success. Or at least don't lose your shirt.
I appreciate the thoughts on colors, I'm going to get my graphics guy to change the coloring on the boxes over to red to see what it looks like. When we get into the legal stuff I'm going straight to Morgan & Morgan and asking for details on writing up liability issues.

Highly UN-likely

Three weeks ago...


Still nothing. You'd think it'd be easy to find a highly experienced rider to test out a new product. But I guess it's easier just to work on pretty packaging.
We did find a local rider, his name is Ian. He had a medical emergency in his family and we haven't been able to reschedule yet. It did kind of get past me.


Going with that, how about incorporating a depiction of dog's teeth biting down on the sides of the box?--reinforces the whole "pitbull mouth" idea.
That is a good idea, lets see if anyone else agrees with your thought. We're just trying to keep it simple.

Nice idea, but the more complicated the label the easier it is to screw up application. Crooked or wrinkled labels create a very bad product impression before even seeing the product.
It would be EASY to set up a test by the RBR staff, or other road bike websites. Contact them, send them the pedal. One would think that someone with full confidence would go that route, right?
Magazines too, but the lead time there is huge for publication. I'd go online, and to places more active than RBR, tbh.
I'm not sure if you've seen on the website but we did get a review from Gear Junkie. Once we have a small quantity of pedals made in the initial run we are going to be sending out pedals to people throughout the country. I expect only good reviews as they do work exactly as I have said.

packaging is such a waste of resources. I curse all those manufacturers that don't just drop their items in a ziplock with a sticker on it. So I end up with mountains of packaging I have to haul to the dump just so they can have their little 'marketing coup / unboxing experience.' I just want the product to be inherently great, not presented to me with excessive trees cut down and blister plastics.
Meanwhile econazis are freaking out over pllastic grocery bags which are instead infinitely useful, minimal and multi reusable - it's all wrong. We should instead be furious at the excessive packaging industry, like the box for these Spambull pedals
We agree that is why we're trying to keep it simple.


If you did a solid black design, you could say it's "none more black". Worked for Spinal Tap.

I've not seen the movie.

The last time I bought brake pads from my LBS they just handed them to me. "We buy these in bulk for repairs". I thought that was pretty cool.
The more I hear about microplastics and their associated issues the better I become at remembering my reusable fabric shopping bags.
We are going to make every effort to use recycled materials

I dunno....a picture of a rabid dog biting down isn't the graphic that would make me buy a pedal that's supposed to clamp to my foot. Have you considered calling them "Bear Trap Pedals" instead?
..plus les choses changent.....
We didn't put any foam around its mouth so hopefully nobody else would think that way. Also we will be giving away a handheld display to any stores that would accept the product so people could work the mechanism by hand and see the quality of the system.


We have cut our single use plastics to near zero. Packaging remains a struggle. We have cut it by half easily but we still buy more things than I’d like packed in plastic in some way. Re-usable plastics are far more eco-friendly than single use paper.
As for the packaging for Pitbull Pedals I don’t much care and I don’t think that look will help or hurt potential sales. The product itself will attend to that. I am not a fan of using this forum to promote products or for retail sales by merchants. Having opinions and discussions and debate about products? Oh absolutely, that’s what we are here for! But trolling to get exposure is bad form.
This is totally just having an open discussion with a group of people that I do not know. Just looking for input positive/negative and I try to respond to the best of my ability.


I have seen some back rooms at LBSs, and I have yet to see one that has rods for storage. Not saying they don't exist, just that every one I have seen is shelves and aisles, often with the shelves accessible from either side. The bagged items in the back are in boxes on those shelves, often boxes they were shipped in.
Now, what happens if someone ships the pedals in a bag? To a retail customer? Lots more packaging, a box and filler to keep things from moving during shipping. Shipping pre-boxed pedals requires less additional packaging for shipping at the retail level.

Bagged pedals would also bang against each other during shipping (if they were literally bagged wth no other material), leading to returns for "scratched" finishes, if not actual chips or other damage during shipping. You know people would do that, heck I might wonder if they were returned and resold if I saw scratched up product. What's the eco cost of such returns? Not zero.
I did not say the packaging was great, just pretty good as far as these things go. I've seen worse.
I'm choosing to take that as its an OK on the packaging.
 
#5 ·
It's a fine design for your product. Good graphic for your design, bringing to mind "strong grip".

A red box would pop more on screen, and in a display case. I would think red is not meaningfully more expensive, and will still work with the black and white design you have for the labels.

Make sure your liability insurance is paid up, and your business is set up in a way that shields you from personal liability. A new pedal will be open to consumer lawsuits in a way pedals that are established products are not. That spindle puts a hole in someone in a way that no other pedal on the market would have, you'll have some 'splaining to do.

I do suggest that you have someone put a thousand miles on the pedal with your final cleat design. More would be better, more people, more miles. Because a few bad reviews early on for wearing out quickly will kill your sales. Such as they might be.

Although I think your pedal design is crap to the point I would short your business if I could, I might be wrong, and I do hope you find success. Or at least don't lose your shirt.
 
#6 ·
I do suggest that you have someone put a thousand miles on the pedal with your final cleat design.
Highly UN-likely

Three weeks ago...
Some good news, I just stopped by our local bike shop and I do believe that I have one of the employees to make a non-biased video with us on Sunday at some point. If all goes well we will be able to share the video early in the week.
Still nothing. You'd think it'd be easy to find a highly experienced rider to test out a new product. But I guess it's easier just to work on pretty packaging.
 
#9 ·
packaging is such a waste of resources. I curse all those manufacturers that don't just drop their items in a ziplock with a sticker on it. So I end up with mountains of packaging I have to haul to the dump just so they can have their little 'marketing coup / unboxing experience.' I just want the product to be inherently great, not presented to me with excessive trees cut down and blister plastics.

Meanwhile econazis are freaking out over pllastic grocery bags which are instead infinitely useful, minimal and multi reusable - it's all wrong. We should instead be furious at the excessive packaging industry, like the box for these Spambull pedals
 
#11 ·
packaging is such a waste of resources. I curse all those manufacturers that don't just drop their items in a ziplock with a sticker on it.
I am with you in general.

But stocking things in baggies in the back room would be a PITA, because baggies don't stack. A small box made from recycled material and sealed with stickers is a pretty good option, as far as these things go.
 
#13 ·
The last time I bought brake pads from my LBS they just handed them to me. "We buy these in bulk for repairs". I thought that was pretty cool.

The more I hear about microplastics and their associated issues the better I become at remembering my reusable fabric shopping bags.
 
#15 ·
We have cut our single use plastics to near zero. Packaging remains a struggle. We have cut it by half easily but we still buy more things than I’d like packed in plastic in some way. Re-usable plastics are far more eco-friendly than single use paper.

As for the packaging for Pitbull Pedals I don’t much care and I don’t think that look will help or hurt potential sales. The product itself will attend to that. I am not a fan of using this forum to promote products or for retail sales by merchants. Having opinions and discussions and debate about products? Oh absolutely, that’s what we are here for! But trolling to get exposure is bad form.
 
#21 ·


Also here are some pictures of pedals that are similar to ours, that I think that everyone has been talking about. In our opinion they are all flawed and over engineered. Even their written reviews had issues. We have worked the bugs out of our pedal and there is nothing to line up. Your foot just slides forward and your clip automatically engages. We did not use any of these ideas when we were developing our own. Ours is completely unique in every way.
 

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#22 ·
The packing isn't bad. It actually seems (hard to judge - materials, weight, etc. in a pic) a bit of a mismatch with the rest of brand identity.

As has been noted a few times, the rest of the brand is just bad - the name, the logo, really everything. But, you've ignore that feedback too.

Your product's claimed point-of-difference is quickness/speed of entry and easy of entry. Your claimed brand benefit is that riders, particularly new riders, will not be left by the group, won't be stressed out about clipping in in time, etc. And, you've chosen a ferocious pitbull with sharp teeth to embody the brand attributes and allay those fears. Nice work.

Given the degree to which you ignore any and all feedback, I think @PBL450 nailed it... your posts are simply for exposure/SEO. And... I just helped kick the can down the road... damn it.
 
#23 ·
The packing isn't bad. It actually seems (hard to judge - materials, weight, etc. in a pic) a bit of a mismatch with the rest of brand identity.
As has been noted a few times, the rest of the brand is just bad - the name, the logo, really everything. But, you've ignore that feedback too.
Your product's claimed point-of-difference is quickness/speed of entry and easy of entry. Your claimed brand benefit is that riders, particularly new riders, will not be left by the group, won't be stressed out about clipping in in time, etc. And, you've chosen a ferocious pitbull with sharp teeth to embody the brand attributes and allay those fears. Nice work.
Given the degree to which you ignore any and all feedback, I think @PBL450 nailed it... your posts are simply for exposure/SEO. And... I just helped kick the can down the road... damn it.
Unfortunately you are out of your freaking mind. I have not approached this that way ever. Also I have never responded to anyone this way before. You are just completely way off base. Maybe you think of pit bulls or dogs in general as just angry beasts. We do not. Actually our graphic is smiling, maybe you just have not noticed it. I do appreciate what everyone has said, but just because I have not taken 10 to 15 peoples ideas and changed the entire packaging/product you should not be holding that against me. We do know how well the product works and we plan to be extremely competitive in pricing, if not the lowest of all.
 
#29 ·
I'm curious as to why so much effort is put forth to try and convince "10 or 20 individuals" that this pedal design is just about the best. Would so few have a great impact on the future of this pedal? I do think there is more here than just asking for opinions. Just my thoughts. And I think I have read enough on Pitbull Pedals. Time to move on.
 
#32 ·
Well then please do not read any more of my posts if they upset you in any way. But feel free to respond if you would like.

So, it's very much on brand. :wink5:
Obviously that is your opinion but we are just trying to keep everything as simple as possible. There are only a few moving parts on the pedal system and trying to make the box and instructions the least complicated as possible in order to keep our costs as low as possible. The box should not sell the product, the quality of the pedal should sell itself.

Again we are not trying to dominate the pedal industry. We have just come up with what we think is a great idea and are just moving forward with it.
 
#36 ·
Chimpanzees have deadly bites. Maybe call the pedals ChimpChomps, to avoid the whole offputting pitbull thing.

Snapping turtles also have a strong bite, and are known to not let go of your toe unless you cut off their heads. So how about TurtleToeSnappers?
 
#38 ·
I am probably one of the few people here that like the logo. Granted I think the product is of minimal value for me and am not about to try it, the minimalist logo matches the concept of the product. And we use far too much plastic, so I like the cardboard box which even if not recycled, is biodegradable.

On pit bulls, all of the ones I have met have been gentle lovable dogs. They do have a bad reputation as they, as well as most terriers, were bred to have strong jaws in order to be rodent killers in the early days. Some people have trained to be vicious killers. I, for one, am more afraid of other terriers more so than pit bulls.

However, imagine a Labrador retriever logo or for that matter, some other silly friendly puppy. Do you really think that would sell regardless of the product? :eek:ut: Pit bulls have the image of toughness even if not vicious. I'd rather have a tough pedal than a silly, stupid pedal. :idea:
 
#45 ·
Can numbers have opinions?
Nope. And the numbers are so vastly overwhelming.

More than 50% of all pit bulls in the USA are up for sale or adoption. (Merritt Clifton, 2019 Dog Breed Survey.)
Most of the pit bulls offered for sale or adoption have been given up by their former owners. (Merritt Clifton, "Rescued" pit bulls now outnumber pit puppies.)
Between 19% and 32% of all dogs taken to shelters are pit bulls. (Emily Weiss, Rising from the Pitt [19%]; Merritt Clifton, "Rescued" pit bulls now outnumber pit puppies [32%].)
Pit bulls remain in shelters approximately three times as long as other breeds.
Forty percent of pit bulls in shelters are euthanized every year. (Emily Weiss, Rising from the Pitt, ASPCAPro, https://www.aspcapro.org/blog/2017/05/19/rising-pit).

Pit bulls bite more humans than other breeds
From February 2013 to present, Animal control and health departments in 19 U.S. states report that pit bulls are leading all breeds in biting incidents. The studies are summarized and linked at Dogsbite.org, Pit Bulls Lead "Bite" Counts Across U.S. Cities and Counties, http://blog.dogsbite.org/2009/07/pit-bulls-lead-bite-counts-across-us.html.

In the 10 years from 2009 to 2018, pit bulls killed or maimed 3,569 people in the USA and Canada. (Merritt Clifton, Dog Attack Deaths & Maimings, U.S. & Canada, 1982-2018 Log.)
They killed over 80% of all Americans who are killed by dogs. (Colleen Lynn, 2015 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities, at http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2015.php.)
In the 13-year period from 2005 to 2017, pit bulls killed 283 Americans. (Colleen Lynn, 12-Year U.S. Dog Bite Fatality Chart and Colleen Lynn, 2017 U.S. Dog Bite Fatalities.)
In 2018, pit bulls killed 25 of the 34 Americans who died because of a dog attack. Eighteen of the pit bull victims were the pit bull's owner, a family member of the pit bull's owner, or a baby (not a member of the family) that the pit bull owner was watching. It can be safely assumed that pit bulls usually bite the same type of person they usually kill, namely their owners and the owner's family.

Pit bull bites are more deadly than those of other breeds
Studies by health care providers establish that pit bull attacks are associated with higher median Injury Severity Scale scores, a higher number of hospital admissions, higher hospital charges, and a higher risk of death. (Bini, John K. MD; Cohn, Stephen M. MD; Acosta, Shirley M. RN, BSN; McFarland, Marilyn J. RN, MS; Muir, Mark T. MD; Michalek, Joel E. PhD, Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs, Annals of Surgery: April 2011, vol. 253, iss. 4, pp. 791–797, cited at http://journals.lww.com/annalsofsur..._Mauling,_and_Maiming_by_Vicious_Dogs.23.aspx.)

The most recent study of dog bites, authored entirely by physicians, concludes that injuries from pit bulls are both more frequent and more severe. (Essig Jr., Garth F., et al., Dog Bite Injuries to the Face: Is There Risk with Breed Ownership? A Systematic Review with Meta-Analysis, Int. J. of Ped. Otorhinolaryngology 117 (2019) 192-188; accessed 3/25/2019 at https://bit.ly/2HShg80.)

Pit bull owners are more likely to be irresponsible
In nearly all of the cases in which Attorney Kenneth M. Phillips has been consulted, where a pit bull killed a person, the pit bull owners had no insurance and therefore the victim's family received no justice in the form of compensation.

Published, peer-reviewed studies in authoritative journals of psychology and forensic science establish that pit bulls owners as a whole -- statistically -- are more likely to be socially deviant, engage in crimes involving children, domestic violence, alchohol abuse, and violent crimes against other persons. (Jaclyn E. Barnes, Barbara W. Boat, Frank W. Putnam, Harold F. Dates, and Andrew R. Mahlman, Ownership of High-Risk ("Vicious") Dogs As a Marker for Deviant Behaviors

Pit bulls kill their owners, family members and babies more than half the time
Of the 31 Americans killed by dogs in 2016, 23 were killed by pitbulls and their mixes, and 12 of those 23 victims were either the owner of the pitbull (4) or a member of the pitbull owner's family (8). (See details given by Colleen Lynn, http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2016.php.)

In 2017, of the 39 Americans killed by dogs, 29 were killed by pitbulls and their mixes, and 18 of those 29 victims were either the owner of the pitbull or a family member (including a relative). (See Colleen Lynn, https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2017.php.)

In 2018, 34 Americans were killed by dogs, 25 of the killer dogs were pit bulls, and 16 of the 25 pit bulls killed their owner or the owner's family member; the victims of two other fatal pit bull attacks were babies not a member of the pit bull owner's family that the pit bull owners were watching. (Phillips, Kenneth, Pit Bull Killings - 2018, https://bit.ly/2Wubi1j.)

Pit bulls also have been known to eat their owners. In 2019, when the police went in search for Freddie Mack (57, Johnson County), they could not find him, but they found bits of his bones and clothes in the excrement of his 15 pit bulls. (Sheriff: Missing North Texas man was eaten by his own dogs, Fox4News.com, July 10, 2019, https://bit.ly/2YR4BrD.)

Females are the most frequent victims in fatal pit bull attacks
In 2018, 25 Americans were killed by pit bulls, and 19 of them were female adults or female children. (Phillips, Kenneth, Pit Bull Killings - 2018, https://bit.ly/2Wubi1j.)

Pit bulls kill more children than any other breed of dog
In 2017, dogs killed 15 children out of the 39 total human fatalities. Pit bulls kllled 8 of the 15 youths. (See Colleen Lynn, https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2017.php.)

In 2018, dogs again killed 15 children, and pit bulls killed at least 9 of those 15 ("at least" because the authorities have concealed the breed of one of the dogs that killed a child.) (See Colleen Lynn, 2018 Dog Bite Fatalities and Phillips, Kenneth, Pit Bull Killings - 2018, https://bit.ly/2Wubi1j.)

Pit bulls are the No. 1 canine killers of other people's pets and animals
In 2017, pit bulls killed 13,000 dogs, 5,000 cats and 20,000 horses and other farm animals. (See Merritt Clifton, 'Pit Bull Roulette' killed 38,000 other animals in 2017.) Having destroyed more than 90% of other animals killed by dogs, the breed became the number one killer of other people's pets, horses and farm animals.

Pit bulls engage in home invasions more often than any other dog
Approximately once per month during 2015, 2016 and 2017, a pit bull has entered the home of a person not its owner for the purpose of killing or injuring people or pets. In addition to homes, the invaded premises have included apartments, schools and even a police station. There were 16 such incidents in 2015, 17 in 2016, and 11 in 2017, with the first recorded one in 1912. (See Safety Before Pit Bulldogs, Extreme Attacks: List of Invasion Attacks by Pit Bulls, at Safety Before Pit Bulldogs: Extreme Attacks: List of Invasion Attacks by Pit Bulls.)

Pit bull attacks (deaths and disfigurements) are on the rise
Fatal and disfiguring attacks by pit bulls have risen 830% since 2007. (Merritt Clifton, Record 33 fatal pit bull attacks & 459 disfigurements in 2015, at http://www.animals24-7.org/2016/01/04/record-33-fatal-pit-bull-attacks-459-disfigurements-in-2015/)

The pit bull attack cover-up is on the rise
The authorities either unwittingly or purposely are engaging in a cover-up pertaining to pit bull violence. In the three decades from 1982 t0 2013, only 45 canine homicides or disfigurements were by dogs of an unidentified breed, but in 2014 there were 36 and in 2015 there were 78. (Merritt Clifton, Record 33 fatal pit bull attacks & 459 disfigurements in 2015, at http://www.animals24-7.org/2016/01/04/record-33-fatal-pit-bull-attacks-459-disfigurements-in-2015/)

Breeding pit bulls adds to the pit bull problem
Over 40% of the USA's pit bulls are homeless, according to the latest survey (Merritt Clifton, 2018 Dog Breed Survey: At Least 41% of U.S. Pit Bull Population Are Seeking Homes, at https://www.animals24-7.org/2018/06...of-u-s-pit-bull-population-are-seeking-homes/). The percent of homeless pit bulls is probably over 50% because rescues and shelters falsely advertise two out of ten pit bulls as being some other breed. This means half or nearly half of the nation's pit bulls are seeking homes. Breeding pit bulls potentially adds to that number.
 
#46 ·
This is our first design for our packaging. It's recycled cardboard and simple black and white identification labeling. Keeps it simple and inexpensive. Thumbs up or thumbs down? Or if anyone has any constructive suggestions we are open to that as well.
Your branding does not convey, in any way, the purported advantage of these pedals.
Again this is just your opinion and if you don't have anything more to add positively, please don't add anymore to this thread and let it die out when it does.
BubbaGump was clearly correct in post #2:

I feel like we've been through this before, and no, you are not open to constructive criticism.
If you don't want opinions, don't start a thread asking for opinions.
 
#51 ·
Originally Posted by xxl
Going with that, how about incorporating a depiction of dog's teeth biting down on the sides of the box?--reinforces the whole "pitbull mouth" idea.

Re simplicity, having dog teeth on the sides needn't drive up costs appreciably--the labels can still be B&W.

Getting the label on straight will be important no matter what's on the label. My conception of it was that the sides would be the only visual reference to a dog (subtle, and possibly less likely to evoke images of "rabid" dogs :eek:), and you'd also have the more valuable label real estate on the top of the package for your brand, logo, etc.
 
#56 ·
Since you're going to be paying for the second color, red, use it to make your logo more visually arresting... use the red ink as blood dripping from the dog's mouth where it is clenched on the pedal.


PS: The human teeth are dumb. If you're committed to the name pitbull, don't halfass it.
 
#58 ·
Since you're going to be paying for the second color, red, use it to make your logo more visually arresting...
Bloody! Heh.

The box color is determined by what material you buy. The label is printed. Printing a second color generally adds to the cost compared to one color printing. Looking at a sample of a whopping one source, two color adds 25-40% to the cost depending on order size (for 500 and 10,000 order labels, small square ones).

Still, that's not going to be a lot of money total, likely less than $100 difference for 10,000 labels. Pennies matter though, for a new business, so even small cost differences should be considered.
 
#65 ·
How about a compromise... a disclaimer on the packaging.

CAUTION: Pit bulls are statistically implicated in more dog attacks than other breeds. Please be very careful when encountering an actual pit bull. In fact, avoid these dogs unless you know the dog personally. Even then, be super careful. Pit Bull Pedals in no way advocates actual pit bull biting for attaching your shoes to our pedals. No dogs were harmed in designing, manufacturing and selling Pit Bull Pedals. Compared to the cleats you already use, these pedals are fail. Use your head. Don't buy these pedals.
 
#67 ·
I'm more of a visual kind of person, like the depiction of a baby about to drown crossed out on the side of plastic buckets. Perhaps a stick drawing with a child's head being crushed in the mouth of a pitbull crossed out would be more universally understandable.
 
#69 · (Edited)
my anecdotal evidence that pits are sketchy AF as pets...a former girlfriend has two of them, both are pound rescues.

altho one was usually docile and friendly, once while playing with it, it grabbed my forearm in its mouth, induced very painful pressure, and refused to release it for well over a minute.

the other is the most psychotic animal I've ever been around. I didn't like being anywhere near this walking hand grenade. if you made even casual, brief eye contact with it, it laid its ears back and growled. I never attempted to pet or play with this scary, hostile beast.

these dogs would occasionally, for no apparent reason, go from resting peacefully to attacking each other and engage in flesh-ripping combat. wtf?

and for the record, these unpredictable dogs are one reason I no longer see their owner. seriously disliked being around them. would NEVER consider owning one.

so, yeah...the whole pitbull logo is a turn-off for me.
 
#75 ·
Not a bad name. I actually do think that name sounds pretty good.


LokkJaww

KingKlench

EzEngage

SnapPedals

SnapDragon Pedals
Fairly good, I think the previous comment with Python Pedal is my favorite suggestion so far. Not sure though.


Anyone else think their next thread be begging for marketing advice?
There is no begging of any sort, there is just an open discussion and having fun. Some people just take things over the top.
 
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