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  1. #26
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    Press fit bearings for BB are not new - the ones on Kleins, Gary Fishers and Merlins worked very well. But a major difference between them and BB30 is that they had interference fit spindles and the BB30 uses a slip fit. So while there is plenty of evidence that BB30 works better with more precise BB shell dimensions, I have to wonder if even 'sloppy' BB30 shells would be problem free if their spindles were also pressed in. Especially when lateral location of the spindle comes down to wave washers.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
    Press fit bearings for BB are not new - the ones on Kleins, Gary Fishers and Merlins worked very well. But a major difference between them and BB30 is that they had interference fit spindles and the BB30 uses a slip fit. So while there is plenty of evidence that BB30 works better with more precise BB shell dimensions, I have to wonder if even 'sloppy' BB30 shells would be problem free if their spindles were also pressed in. Especially when lateral location of the spindle comes down to wave washers.
    Sloppy BB30's which almost don't exist in the wild are easily tamed with Loctite which has been used successfully for years now with BB30. No creaks. If you don't know this, then why on earth are you speculating about interference fit spindles. Oh, I know. Its you..lol.

  3. #28
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    From what I've seen of the so called engineers in the bike industry; you can scratch out engineer and pencil in marketing dept. It's not all of them but it seems to be a decent portion of them.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by exracer View Post
    From what I've seen of the so called engineers in the bike industry; you can scratch out engineer and pencil in marketing dept. It's not all of them but it seems to be a decent portion of them.
    Marketing Engineer?
    Too old to ride plastic

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by exracer View Post
    From what I've seen of the so called engineers in the bike industry; you can scratch out engineer and pencil in marketing dept. It's not all of them but it seems to be a decent portion of them.
    Imagine going to school and getting your engineering degree and your first job and then being told your job is to dream up new bottom brackets "standards" that are inferior to what already exists. Kinda soul-crushing IMO

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Totally agree on this. It was a move driven by bean counters as it’s far cheaper to go press-fit versus a machining a threaded bottom bracket. As usual, the consumer loses.
    The 2018 Specialized Epic mountain bikes are now coming with a threaded bottom bracket... perhaps the pendulum is swinging back?

    I'm still scratching my head with all this caterwauling about the BB30 system between the loctite fix and upgraded pressfit bottom brackets along with common sense set-up and pre-load and maintenance this whole creaky bottom bracket malarkey is a easy fix for any competent home mechanic.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRM4865 View Post
    The 2018 Specialized Epic mountain bikes are now coming with a threaded bottom bracket... perhaps the pendulum is swinging back?

    I'm still scratching my head with all this caterwauling about the BB30 system between the loctite fix and upgraded pressfit bottom brackets along with common sense set-up and pre-load and maintenance this whole creaky bottom bracket malarkey is a easy fix for any competent home mechanic.
    No one is saying it cant be fixed but you can't ignore all the press fit grousing on the internet and the fact that there is a thriving aftermarket for fixes. Who wants to spend thousands of dollars on a bike and then have to tear the thing apart to address a creaking issue that was caused by the manufacturer seeking a cheaper manufacturing process. I don't think that is malarkey

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    Imagine going to school and getting your engineering degree and your first job and then being told your job is to dream up new bottom brackets "standards" that are inferior to what already exists. Kinda soul-crushing IMO
    Yet SRAM engineers have determined that 28.99mm is the perfect spindle diameter for 12 speed drive trains. So we need a new BB spec for that.

    It does seem a little like a Masters' thesis put to commercial use.

    scott s.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    No one is saying it cant be fixed but you can't ignore all the press fit grousing on the internet and the fact that there is a thriving aftermarket for fixes. Who wants to spend thousands of dollars on a bike and then have to tear the thing apart to address a creaking issue that was caused by the manufacturer seeking a cheaper manufacturing process. I don't think that is malarkey
    Well I suppose "creaking" is more of an aesthetics issue than performance. But the engineers may not have any production experience, and with production off-shore they probably aren't making trips to the factory to see what the crafts do with their well-designed BB bearing interfaces. This is where old-skool craft labor has its benefit -- they can tell the engineer what really works in the field.

    scott s.
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  10. #35
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    Ask any shop mechanic and they will tell you that customers regularly come in with complaints about threaded BBs creaking in steel and aluminum frames. This is not limited to press-fit BBs by any means. It is just that the latter have become the favorite internet whipping post.
    Life is short... enjoy the ride.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    In massed produced frames it largely does. For me the video showed if machined correctly BB30 is fine. My Time has never made a sound with bearings pressed in. And you SHOULD NOT have to use Loctite in the process. That’s just stupid.
    My $1500 Specialized, my wife's $4000 specialized, my Devinci my dads S works .. all have BB30 or PF30 with factory oem installaions, and never make a peep.

    but yours and my anecdotes are trivial

    I feel any bike with this press-in shyt is one more thing to worry about likely to need a problem-solver BB eventually - even if it's just to make it more user-serviceable!

    (like most, I prefer BSA of course. but becoming far too rare)
    Faith is pretending to know things you don't know

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradkay View Post
    Ask any shop mechanic and they will tell you that customers regularly come in with complaints about threaded BBs creaking in steel and aluminum frames. This is not limited to press-fit BBs by any means. It is just that the latter have become the favorite internet whipping post.
    In the service of the gods of lightweight: forks and frames that split in two like wood and BBs that creak! But heck. 11 gears to choose from! Electric motors coming in right behind to soften the blows.

    When threaded BBs came rolling in at the shop, they would be creak free with a minute or two of torquing down the fixed cup on the crank side, usually the problem, and taking out play in the cup and cone bearings by adjusting the cup on the non-drive side. If it still creaked, the BB shell was probably not faced, so once in a great while, we'd get out the facing tool.

    The sealed bearing cartridges threaded nicely into the bottom brackets, but they'd frequently develop creaks internally and there was nuthin' we could do but yank the thing out and replace it.

    I've always preferred a durable, strong bike that I can pick up after I go down, adjust the handlebars, and ride home. This has been my luck so far with two steel bikes, except once picking up a coat hanger in the chain and wrapping it around the freewheel, bending the derailleur hanger 45 degree in. I bent it back out very carefully with a big adjustable crescent wrench and derailleur hanger adjusting tool, chased the threads, screwed on a new derailleur, and it remains my long distance ride to this day, 20 years later.

    I've trashed handlebars, brake levers, pedals, wheel rims, saddles, but those two frames held their alignment in multiple crashes. In the one crash that actually bent the frame, the local builder bent it back, and I'm riding the bike 30 years later. Both ride as fine as they did new. Reliable, exceeding gravel bike standards. I just have to watch where I'm going! . Carbon would last maybe two years.

    A bike that stays together in a crash is going serve the rider much better than one that comes apart under him, that's for sure. Of course that's a moot point to racers who train to immediately separate from the bike before it crashes into something, right? .
    Last edited by Fredrico; 02-13-2018 at 08:31 PM.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by scott967 View Post
    Well I suppose "creaking" is more of an aesthetics issue than performance. But the engineers may not have any production experience, and with production off-shore they probably aren't making trips to the factory to see what the crafts do with their well-designed BB bearing interfaces. This is where old-skool craft labor has its benefit -- they can tell the engineer what really works in the field.

    scott s.
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    Aesthetic only as it destroys your form! Kind of like hitting the wrong note with each stroke! Trying to sprint up a climb on a creaky crank will ruin your day.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notvintage View Post
    Time kills it with their quality.
    Pity their geometry sucks, eh? Loved my VXRS but she was a dog on twisting descents. Give me Italian geometry every day of the week!

  15. #40
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    motobécane > peugeot
    Yossarian: don't worry. nothing's going to happen to you that won't happen to the rest of us.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfrancois View Post
    motobécane > peugeot
    Rene Herse > both
    Too old to ride plastic

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultimobici View Post
    Pity their geometry sucks, eh? Loved my VXRS but she was a dog on twisting descents. Give me Italian geometry every day of the week!
    Time geometry is too slopy, makes mens bikes look like womens bikes. But I like their quality though, better than the Italian stuff.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    But I like their quality though, better than the Italian stuff.
    What on earth are you comparing it to?

    Easily equal in quality of construction to the VXRS I had. Superior in handling bu a long chalk. Same glove-like fit as my VXRS. The reason? Same STA, top tube & head tube as the VXRS with the BB drop favoured by most Italian frame builders.


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