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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
    Again, we have no idea what the whole story is with her, her family, drugs/alcohol, mental issues, and any number of things. Her motivations and justifications are not revealed in the article.

    Is she simply not coping with the demands of our society, without any other issues? Possibly. Does she have some very deep issues (mental, physical) that are keeping her where she is? Also possible. We just don't know. Apparently she has been offered help and demurred for whatever reason, which is completely her choice.

    Me? I'd like to see her riding a bike again. I know how that changes my outlook and opens up possibilities for me. If she was in a comfortable (food/shelter stable) enough environment to have the time to ride a bike (and not constantly worry about survival), it might help open doors in her life. I could be wrong, though.

    Again, a couple lines on a page don't tell the whole story.
    Forest for the trees. It may be unpossible to be truly objective because each of us bring a lifetime of assumptions to the mix... we all know that social norms have changed over times but we most often see OUR times as correct.

  2. #27
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    Spot on PBL as I was thinking just the same. Depression will suck the life out of ya.
    So I tuned the Larrivee, drop D, then DADGAD.

  3. #28
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    She did not want to discuss mental health but feels it should be treated more seriously in Washington.
    Stigmas do this.
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  4. #29
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    As an ex-pat now living in Spain (a nation who's healthcare includes mental), I've notice a lot (LOT) fewer homeless and beggars then in California.

    Whatever demon has captured Ms. Twigg, I hope she can prevail. As so many have alluded to above, mental health illness has many different faces and traces with far-reaching implications.
    I am 100% convinced the internet and social media are not the salvation to human civility.

  5. #30
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    I think anyone having a child knows how truly hard it would be to leave them. My son is about to turn 3 in a few weeks. He gives me more hope, inspiration, and happiness than anything I've ever done in my own life. I have many shortcomings in my own life, but that little dude makes me aspire to be a better person.

    I wish Ms. Twigg the best. I only got to DI college sports in my career and I know retiring from that level was a challenge - ALL your focus is on one thing for sooooo long. I can only imagine being truly elite and having it end one day.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
    Elite-level athletes who find themselves aimless and unable to function outside of sport are all too common. Some were paid far, far better during their careers, so their ability to support themselves without a "real job" yet do nothing of substance for the remainder of their lives is greatly increased. Others struggle, because they didn't earn enough during their careers to coast.
    In the NFL they just go back to dealing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Mike View Post
    Alexi Grewal is very similar in some regards.
    Alexi lives up in Nederland Co. Helps out with local races. Always has a smile on his face. Seems happy.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chain View Post
    Alexi lives up in Nederland Co. Helps out with local races. Always has a smile on his face. Seems happy.
    I know he has struggled from time to time, mainly as the construction market fluctuated. I supported his "return" to racing not so much to get him back to the elite level, but to get him back into the cycling community. He's found his place in the world and I'm extremely happy for him.

    A lot of ex-pros end up wanting nothing to do with USAC after they see how the sausage is made, and in too many cases they drift off from racing/cycling altogether. Having them put it in a healthy, lifelong context is something USAC should do for their elite athletes. A few contacts here or there with clubs, organizers, and industry couldn't hurt to smooth the transition. "So long and thanks for all the fish" seems a bit like cutting them off.

  8. #33
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    saw this story on YT recently too. eerily similar. Back in 1988 this amazing figure skater Debi THomas nabbed bronze at the Os, then moved on to achieve her MD and fully accredited as a orthopedic surgeon. She now is destitute couch surfing on her loser boyfriend's infested trailer. The outside opinion is that she suffers from bipolar personality disorder, which makes her difficult to work with and she eventually lost her medical license. Scary and sad

    mental illness can be a prison of no escape, can be pain you can't see hear touch or treat. Like I said, scary. There for but the grace of good luck go any of us I think.

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  9. #34
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    Who here has seen or remembers the movie "Little Big Man"?

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akirasho View Post
    Who here has seen or remembers the movie "Little Big Man"?
    Dustin Hoffman?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by T K View Post
    Dustin Hoffman?
    Yep. My point being, Hoffman's character sees "normal" from several different social and cultural perspectives. We tend to see "normal" through our own rather narrow social and cultural lens and don't tolerate variances well even with the better intentions.

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    This happens to a surprising number of people who have achieved great success. The one that always gets me is Sly Stone. People forget that in the late sixties and early seventies, Sly Stone produced some of the finest funk pop singles and albums of all time, some straight-up classics. He was on a tear for several years, releasing an avalanche of new music very quickly. He also turned in the single best performance at Woodstock. It's no exaggeration to call him the Prince of his generation.

    After about 1972, drugs started to take hold of him and his career went to hell with shocking speed. By 1978 he was broke and largely forsaken. He's been living in a van since the 90s, apparently. He sporadically shows up for live shows, all of which are supposedly awful. It's a shame. Go back and listen to "Thank You", that's one of the hardest grooves ever committed to vinyl.

  13. #38
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    Interesting... I used to think she was hot when I was a kid in the 80's and used to subscribe to Bicycle Guide Magazine.




  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by aclinjury View Post
    ok fair enough. I see your points. Not all mental illness are defined by medicine yet, and the science is still evolving... and there are gray areas... perhaps degree and spectrum of abnormality... all fair enough. And we could sit here and debate about the science of psychology and psychiatry all day and probably not come to any immediate conclusion about this woman. Nobody in here knows her history, So, I was going only by what I read from the article because that's what was posted.

    Unfortunately, there needs to be a clear demarcation between an illness and a "general lack of motivation to cope with life" if public funds and policies are to be formulated and applied. Otherwise, every pothead and beachbum would stand in line with pencil in hands to claim mental illness and expect society to take care of them.

    IMO, this woman would have been better off in life if she didn't have a gift for cycling such that success come to easy. Without any special gift, she'd be forced to work hard and basically strive to survive in any condition no matter the adversary. This woman seemed to just want to quit as soon as her natural talent hits the wall.

    I'm curious about what her daughter thinks in all this. It appears from the article that even her daughter is not too keen on taking her in or reuniting with their mom. I mean, if my mom has a mental illness, I'd want to take care of her and not let her roam the shelters like that.
    You have all the compassion of a shark with an empty stomach.

    Let us just say that there are many different personality types. And while I am no expert at mental illness, I have had friends with mental illness and substance abuse problems and neither is any laughing matter nor anything to be criticized.

    I have observed a few things in life. It appears that early high achievers and creative types tend to have a greater tendency toward substance abuse and mental illness. For people living life on the edge so-to-say, it may be difficult to settle down and be a bookkeeper. I don't think medical professionals know everything there is to know about mental illness, just as with other medicine. Just think what we know now compared to only 30 years ago.

    Personally, I took the safe life choices and latched onto a secure job position which isn't very satisfying, but isn't bad either. Many aren't able to do that without crawling out of their skin. My job's purpose is to pay the bills. I get my life satisfaction outside my career. Some are lucky enough to have a career that is enriching and fulfilling, some aren't.

    Your meanness and callousness is unwarranted.
    "With bicycles in particular, you need to separate between what's merely true and what's important."-- DCGriz, RBR.

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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    You have all the compassion of a shark with an empty stomach.

    Let us just say that there are many different personality types. And while I am no expert at mental illness, I have had friends with mental illness and substance abuse problems and neither is any laughing matter nor anything to be criticized.

    I have observed a few things in life. It appears that early high achievers and creative types tend to have a greater tendency toward substance abuse and mental illness. For people living life on the edge so-to-say, it may be difficult to settle down and be a bookkeeper. I don't think medical professionals know everything there is to know about mental illness, just as with other medicine. Just think what we know now compared to only 30 years ago.

    Personally, I took the safe life choices and latched onto a secure job position which isn't very satisfying, but isn't bad either. Many aren't able to do that without crawling out of their skin. My job's purpose is to pay the bills. I get my life satisfaction outside my career. Some are lucky enough to have a career that is enriching and fulfilling, some aren't.

    Your meanness and callousness is unwarranted.
    Well said... I mean why is Michael Phelps suicidal? Who knows? Hey, we have come a long way on the last 30 years, but we still know next to nothing. We are getting close to understanding schizophrenia and identifying the cause in DNA. We are very close. While amazing, it is but a fraction of the array of mental illness. I’m passionate about my career so I figure I’m lucky in that regard, but I am not making mad money... I knew that going in... So be it. My wife is a saint.

    This woman has a history of severe trauma. Imagine being homeless as a teenager. Imagine what that does to brain development at such a critical age. She has had a very difficult time and she is freak. She went from homeless to hotels, she doesn’t know the white picket fence and thanksgiving dinner, it is completely foreign. Judging this poor woman is cruel. Again, I’d love to hang with her to try getting into her thinking and maybe coming up with a plan to get stable... She is brilliant and talented. I’d love to talk to her about her homelessness.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  16. #41
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    Lightbulb

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...y/31/twigg.htm

    By ARNIE STAPLETON
    AP Sports Writer
    Wednesday, July 31, 1996 5:42 pm EDT
    ATLANTA (AP) -- American cyclers expected unparalleled success at the Olympics. They got unprecedented turmoil instead.

    Six-time world champion Rebecca Twigg, the best U.S. cyclist, quit the team over a feud with her national coach and won't ride in Saturday's time trial.

    Twigg's departure apparently was spawned by her simmering feud with national coaching director Chris Carmichael, who criticized Twigg's training methods after her disappointing performance in the individual pursuit quarterfinals last Friday.

    Twigg, who was competing in her third Olympics, returned to her home in Colorado Springs, Colo. She didn't return telephone messages left at her home Wednesday.

    Carmichael said Twigg left the team Monday night without speaking to him.

    ``I really don't have much to say. She's not here anymore and she's in Colorado,'' Carmichael said.

    Because they haven't dealt with an Olympian quitting before, USA Cycling officials don't know if Twigg can be replaced or whether the United States simply loses her spot in the race, U.S. Cycling spokesman Cheryl Kvasnicka said.

    ``Usually if it's illness or injury, it's automatic, you get another slot,'' Kvasnicka said. ``But in this case, we don't know.''

    Kvasnicka said U.S. officials were talking with the International Olympic Committee and the international cycling federation to see if Twigg can be replaced. A decision was expected Thursday.

    Carmichael said the team wasn't adversely affected by her departure.

    ``The team has handled it very well. We obviously got a bronze yesterday in the women's mountain bike event. The guys rode awesome today'' in the road race, he said.

    Carmichael said road racer Jeanne Golay, who already doubled up and rode the points race last week, would join Linda Brenneman, of Dana Point, Calif., in Saturday's time trial, if the IOC allows.

    Twigg won a bronze medal in the individual pursuit in Barcelona and a silver in the road race at the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles. She was a heavy favorite in the individual pursuit in Atlanta after winning the world championship last year in world-record time.

    She ran a discouraging race on her new SuperBike, however, and ditched the high-tech creation for her second heat. She fared no better on a conventional bike, failing to advance from Friday's quarterfinal round.

    ``I wasn't focused,'' Twigg said, blaming problems with her bicycle and frustrations with the U.S. Cycling Federation over its refusal to allow her personal coach to be with her at the games.

    Afterward, Carmichael said he couldn't fathom how Twigg could start training in April for a race in July. He acknowledged he was ultimately responsible for his athletes, but said: ``You can't force riders to do things they don't want to.''

    Twigg was infuriated.

    ``They've got to come up with some excuses'' she said, referring to the U.S. team's mostly dismal showing at the Olympics despite its multimillion-dollar training and technology program that produced the SuperBike.

    Twigg criticized the bicycle, billed as the best on the planet. She said it wasn't properly custom-fit, and a second one was flown in the day before her competition.

    Twigg also complained that Carmichael wouldn't allow her longtime personal coach, Eddie Borysewicz, to have an infield pass so he could help her at the Olympics.

    ``Everyone knows the rules,'' Carmichael said. ``We don't credential any personal coaches.''

    Twigg said the U.S. coaches needed to be more flexible.

    ``I think the national federation needs to listen to the riders' needs,'' she said. ``This isn't a Communist country. Communism doesn't work. Every rider is different.''

    She's also a stubborn, conceited, overachiever, self-entitled, and ultimately a quitter too. The same traits that drove her to success early in her life are the same ones responsible for her downfall, and then the downfall probably led to the "mental illness" (because apparently overachievers can't cope with failures in life.)

    How many people are even fortunate enough to make the Olympics? and then quit it? over a dispute of equipment?? A special kind of self-entitlement for sure.

    Maybe if she knew one day she would be like this, her attitude might have been different at a young age? She has problems now, but her early livelihood has been more than fair to her by any standards.

    And she sure was anti-commie eh. Yep, in a capitalist country, you're judged by your merits then eh.

    Rebecca Twigg-rebecca-twigg.jpg
    Last edited by aclinjury; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:10 AM.

  17. #42
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    you're just laying out a lot of the case for bipolar disorder with all that. a debillitating mental illness you can find in the DSM. these individuals can be very hard to live with. I think understanding it as a possible mental illness is wiser than attributing 'moral failing' to her behaviour in such a 19th century prejudiced manner. It's like when the British army was executing soldiers by the hundreds in WW1 for being moral failures, officially court martialled for 'cowardice' in battle when they were actually suffering what we know now as severe PTSD.

    she also suffered a horrible childhood, fair amount of trauma there

    rudeness and really ugly temper tends to come out most during an intermediate stage called hypomania - not during extreme mania (extreme mania is characterized more by a total inability to sleep and eventual resultant psychosis), according to Dr. Nancy Gaby, a psychiatrist of over 30 years experience.

    Behaviorally, hypomania is the epitome of nastiness. Irritability at best, irascibility and hostility at worst. Snarkiness, arrogance, accusatory language, belligerence, impatience, criticism, and pushiness (which can become outright hostility) are the hallmarks of hypomania. Being verbally rude or even glaringly ugly to people, being horridly sarcastic, picking fights, or even (worst case scenario) assaulting someone physically. Think road rage; it’s that kind of irrational hostility when hypomania gets rolling in the brain.

    In the early stages of hypomania, you can hardly bear waiting in lines, and your face becomes a continual glare. Everything - every. little. thing. - stresses you. The inner pressure is horrendous, and you become a powder keg, increasingly unstable and unable to control your temper
    https://www.quora.com/Do-some-people...manic-episodes

    I know a dentist who is exactly like this. In dental school she actually had shrieking fits, as a student, in clinic. Yelling at just about every other classmate in the 4 years in school. Yet extreme high achiever. Unstable life, although still able to work, bouncing from one job to another, heck one country to another, burning bridges always.
    Last edited by BCSaltchucker; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:43 AM.
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  18. #43
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    Wow....I think maybe I should add ACL to my ignore list......
    "L'enfer, c'est les autres"

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCSaltchucker View Post
    you're just laying out a lot of the case for bipolar disorder with all that. a debillitating mental illness you can find in the DSM. these individuals can be very hard to live with. I think understanding it as a possible mental illness is wiser than attributing 'moral failing' to her behaviour in such a 19th century prejudiced manner. It's like when the British army was executing soldiers by the hundreds in WW1 for being moral failures, officially court martialled for 'cowardice' in battle when they were actually suffering what we know now as severe PTSD.

    she also suffered a horrible childhood, fair amount of trauma there


    https://www.quora.com/Do-some-people...manic-episodes

    I know a dentist who is exactly like this. In dental school she actually had shrieking fits, as a student, in clinic. Yelling at just about every other classmate in the 4 years in school. Yet extreme high achiever. Unstable life, although still able to work, bouncing from one job to another, heck one country to another, burning bridges always.
    Even at a glance I can tell you that is a Borderline Personality Disorder.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    Wow....I think maybe I should add ACL to my ignore list......
    ACL used to be a nice guy once upon a time, but his ugly side has shown as of late in some recent threads. This is his worst appearance so far.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Time Toulouse View Post
    Wow....I think maybe I should add ACL to my ignore list......
    ACL needs to let this go

  22. #47
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    I don’t come to this cycling forum very often and have no input on Rebecca Twigg’s current condition or reasons for that condition except to say it’s sad.

    However, since she lives in Seattle I have posted a link to an excellent report on the homeless in Seattle, which was done by local Seattle station KOMO. I found this on another forum and like it because it appears to be an honest effort and the type of investigative reporting not often seen anymore. It is about an hour long and disturbing. I don’t live in Seattle but I think it is well worth the time especially for those who have posted on this thread, regardless of side of the obvious argument about Twigg which you are on.

    According to the Seattle Times article about Twigg: “Twigg, 56, agreed to share her story to convince the public that not all homeless people are addicted to drugs or alcohol; that there are many like her, who have struggled with employment and are “confused,” as she said she is, about what to do next with their lives”.

    That may well be true for her and others. You can draw your own conclusions after watching this video report, but you should watch it all before making those conclusions.

    https://komonews.com/news/local/komo...attle-is-dying

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    ACL needs to let this go
    Well, if I ever need somebody who doesn't know when to stop digging the hole he's in even deeper......
    Last edited by No Time Toulouse; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:15 PM.
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scar View Post
    I don’t come to this cycling forum very often and have no input on Rebecca Twigg’s current condition or reasons for that condition except to say it’s sad.

    However, since she lives in Seattle I have posted a link to an excellent report on the homeless in Seattle, which was done by local Seattle station KOMO. I found this on another forum and like it because it appears to be an honest effort and the type of investigative reporting not often seen anymore. It is about an hour long and disturbing. I don’t live in Seattle but I think it is well worth the time especially for those who have posted on this thread, regardless of side of the obvious argument about Twigg which you are on.

    According to the Seattle Times article about Twigg: “Twigg, 56, agreed to share her story to convince the public that not all homeless people are addicted to drugs or alcohol; that there are many like her, who have struggled with employment and are “confused,” as she said she is, about what to do next with their lives”.

    That may well be true for her and others. You can draw your own conclusions after watching this video report, but you should watch it all before making those conclusions.

    https://komonews.com/news/local/komo...attle-is-dying
    I started watching it and bailed as the angry property owner stuff just dragged on and on. I don’t know (or care) what comes next, this is so mis-directed. The problem is the easiest one to solve imaginable which is why so many countries, particularly cold countries, don’t really have homelessness. They’ll have some mental illness, hobo train hoppers but nothing like this. By me there are tent cities in the woods in some areas. Disgusting that we have people living in those conditions. Homelessness isn’t defined by mental illness or substance abuse, it is defined by having no decent, safe and sanitary shelter. Imagine, working class property owners sounding like they want the police to exterminate the homeless instead of advocating for solutions that recognize and affirm their similarities. Everyone in that town hall meeting is far closer to living in a tent than they think. It can happen in the blink of an eye.
    To date, philosophers have merely interpreted the world in various ways. The point however is to change it.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PBL450 View Post
    I started watching it and bailed as the angry property owner stuff just dragged on and on. I don’t know (or care) what comes next, this is so mis-directed. The problem is the easiest one to solve imaginable which is why so many countries, particularly cold countries, don’t really have homelessness. They’ll have some mental illness, hobo train hoppers but nothing like this. By me there are tent cities in the woods in some areas. Disgusting that we have people living in those conditions. Homelessness isn’t defined by mental illness or substance abuse, it is defined by having no decent, safe and sanitary shelter. Imagine, working class property owners sounding like they want the police to exterminate the homeless instead of advocating for solutions that recognize and affirm their similarities. Everyone in that town hall meeting is far closer to living in a tent than they think. It can happen in the blink of an eye.
    Many of those working class property owners just don't have time to advocate possible solutions for homeless issues. Many of them work a full day at a job they probably don't care for to provide a certain standard of living for their families, only to have that threatened (in their eyes) by the side-effects of having homeless in close proximity. Why should I advocate for you when you threaten those close to me?

    Are these working class the problem? To be honest, I side with them. I have too many friends that had their businesses robbed and their livelihoods threatened by the homeless. I have far too many friends that had their bikes stolen by the homeless. I've seen far too much of our public land taken over by the homeless, to the point it is unusable by law-abiding citizens. These working class people are pissed. They're equally on the political/ideological divide.

    I don't have a solution, because that would indicate a single root cause. All I know is the standards for basic civility are flat out gone. The truly needy among the homeless are getting lumped in with the predatory, because the bad apples have lowered the perception and behavioral norms of the group.

    No agency or community was ready for the opioid crisis and the havoc it has raised on infrastructure and systems. Add in the financial crisis of a decade ago and the after-effects, and you have this self-perpetuating mess we're in now. A few more bucks for mental illness counseling ain't going to do it, nor is a few developments of free housing for addicts, nor is packing them all off to jail. What is is going to take is a whole lot of money thrown in a whole lot of directions to hit at as many root causes as possible. There isn't the political will to do it, so it isn't going to happen.

    Sorry, I'd love to find an answer for people like Rebecca Twigg, who most people would give two craps about if she wasn't a formerly-famous cyclist. I'd love to find the answer to any number of people I'm related to that (thanks to FASD and other issues) seem to toss every advantage they're given in the trash as soon as they can. I'd love to find the answer for the kids in government care with drug and alcohol-fried brains because their parents were too self-serving to pull their heads out before it was too late. I've been down that road of trying to help others clean up their lives (probably like Ms Twigg's family) and been burned each and every time, robbing my own family of resources. My working class desire for advocacy is just about gone.

    The divide between the haves and the have-nots is ever widening.

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